this may be a long (and vague) shot but... (hoof care)

MandyMoo

MandyMoo

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I know this isn't strictly CR, but I don't really venture out of here so here goes..

Socks has really quite bad feet...he is always losing shoes, and when he does he pulls off bits of his hoof and they crumble away, so then the next shoe doesn't attach too well and, again, he loses it - a vicious cycle. He has recently been put on a biotin supplement, but obviously any effect will take a good 6-9 months whilst the hoof grows...so in the mean time it'd be great to find something to help, as he is costing a fortune in shoeing!!

I try and put cornicresin (spelling?) on his hooves most days when they are clean and dry, but me and my mum remembered the other day that years and years ago my mum had a horse with bad/cracked/crumbling hooves, and she bought this stuff (can't remember the name for the life of me..) that was almost like a thick paste - like the solidness of cornicresin - that you could pack into any gaps/holes in hooves, and it sort of ''set'' into a rock hard substance that was great at keeping shoes on and helping the hoof stay together and not continue to crumble..

I know it is a long shot.....but does any know/remember anything similar??? It really worked on this previous horse, and if I could remember what it was I'd be using it on Socks right now!!!

Thanks in advance :) some white wine on offer to anyone who wants it, I just got back from a pub quiz and won a bottle of white!
 
Balanced diet is the key to a healthy horse - hair and hooves are low on the horse priority list so any deficiency show up here first.
 
You could try feeding spirulina for a few months, it's a blue/green algae that give the hooves a real boost, fed to mine for about 4 months and its made a visible difference. You can get it from Holland and Barretts.
 
Short term I'd be looking for a very good farrier who can build the hoof up artificially so that you can hold shoes. A diet overhaul is probably needed too.
Then I'd plan ahead and give your self 3-4 months quiet time over winter, get the shoes off for a bit and try and get them sorted out as it will pay dividends in the long term. Moving forwards next year you may be better exploring glue on options
 
Charem said:
Keratex hoof putty by any chance?
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checked with mum - it is that stuff, brilliant thank you! :D we have bought some today and will use it asap!

nikkimariet said:
New farrier???

Would it be possible to take the shoes off over winter and then start again?
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ihatework said:
Short term I'd be looking for a very good farrier who can build the hoof up artificially so that you can hold shoes. A diet overhaul is probably needed too.
Then I'd plan ahead and give your self 3-4 months quiet time over winter, get the shoes off for a bit and try and get them sorted out as it will pay dividends in the long term. Moving forwards next year you may be better exploring glue on options
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I have changed farriers twice though and have had no better results :-/ so I don't think it is bad farriery (and I listened to good recommendations of farriers from people on here) I think it is purely poor feet....and to be honest, the late spring because of all the cold weather probably didn't help his diet as the grass took so long to come through!

Thanks for all the advice guys :) will take it all in, and discuss options with mother!
 
nikkimariet said:
Would it be possible to take the shoes off over winter and then start again?
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I would really like to avoid doing this though - he is very ''footy'' without shoes (as when he loses one he usually goes lame for a while) and a lot of the time I don't always have access to soft ground i.e. a school, and so I am often hacking on roads or hard woodland paths and I really would try not to have to give him a few months off work without shoes... :( I shall try and change his diet/manage the issue
 
We have had very good improvements in hoof health with the low sugar, barefoot diet and then further improvements in hoof shape from feeding pink powder regularly, though I understand pp doesn't suit all horses.
 
ihatework speaks sense. Perhaps there are glue-on options that will work with some of the artificial build-up stuff, so that you can avoid more damage? Unfortunately, I think boots aren't competition-legal for jumping disciplines, so unless you want to stop competing until his feet are sorted, taking the shoes off completely now is probably not an option. Easy-care do a new glue-on, though, that may be a possibility for you; I think it also allows for studs?

In the meantime, I'd get a forage analysis done to find out if there's any insufficiencies, check his feeds for excess starches (what does he get at the moment?), and switch to hay if you are feeding haylage.
 
spookypony said:
ihatework speaks sense. Perhaps there are glue-on options that will work with some of the artificial build-up stuff, so that you can avoid more damage? Unfortunately, I think boots aren't competition-legal for jumping disciplines, so unless you want to stop competing until his feet are sorted, taking the shoes off completely now is probably not an option. Easy-care do a new glue-on, though, that may be a possibility for you; I think it also allows for studs?

In the meantime, I'd get a forage analysis done to find out if there's any insufficiencies, check his feeds for excess starches (what does he get at the moment?), and switch to hay if you are feeding haylage.
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Yes I might consider investigating glue on options as an alternative if I don't see any improvement in the next couple of months with the biotin supplement (it worked wonders for a TB we had that had poor feet that cracked/crumbled, so I'm going to give the biotin time to work first before I do any drastic shoeing changes). But yes, I agree, at the current time it really is not an option for me to remove his shoes......as if I do I am simply going to have to stop working him completely, and then probably spend 6months getting back to where I am now - which is very unrealistic if I am to keep competing him and am most likely only going to get another year of competing before I am too busy with my second degree (physiotherapy) as I will have so many placements etc.....

He is currently fed hay as haylage gives him really bad runs - and I will look at his feed :) thanks spookypony :)
 
you'd probably better feeding one of the hoof-targeted supplements rather than just biotin, like pro hoof from ebay or forageplus balancer.
 
nikkimariet said:
Competing is a moot point. No foot no horse!!!
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yes but he isn't constantly lame or anything from his poor feet. They're really not that bad - he just is very prone to losing shoes/bits of his hoof will break away easily once the shoe is lost. His feet aren't horrendous by any means.

currently on his near fore, there is simply a 0.5cm gap between his hoof and his shoe on the outer edge due to him losing it last week and I am worried this shoe will then come off easily so wondered if anyone remember the name of the putty stuff to pack in the gap to help the shoe stay on :) which someone kindly reminded me of the name of the product - so I shall use it asap to keep the shoe on and stop the shoe coming off/pulling for hoof away.

I am going to investigate his diet etc and try and manage that

ester said:
you'd probably better feeding one of the hoof-targeted supplements rather than just biotin, like pro hoof from ebay or forageplus balancer.
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hmm, thanks for that tip :) I shall have a google browse !
 
I use the Forage Plus hoof health one for my lot. If you get your forage from different sources etc., it makes more sense than getting a forage analysis.
 
I would definitely think about looking into glue on shoes. I have just had ones called glushu put on my pony and they have worked wonders. They have a website, ask your farrier about them. I know they are on the pricey side but it will give your horses feet a break from having nail holes, continue with a diet/supplements to encourage good hoof growth and then there will be some strength so then the farrier has something decent to nail onto after the break from nail on shoes. I can post pics of you are interested in seeing my ponies feet.
 
MandyMoo said:
yes but he isn't constantly lame or anything from his poor feet. They're really not that bad - he just is very prone to losing shoes/bits of his hoof will break away easily once the shoe is lost. His feet aren't horrendous by any means.

currently on his near fore, there is simply a 0.5cm gap between his hoof and his shoe on the outer edge due to him losing it last week and I am worried this shoe will then come off easily so wondered if anyone remember the name of the putty stuff to pack in the gap to help the shoe stay on :) which someone kindly reminded me of the name of the product - so I shall use it asap to keep the shoe on and stop the shoe coming off/pulling for hoof away.

I am going to investigate his diet etc and try and manage that



hmm, thanks for that tip :) I shall have a google browse !
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hmmm, the difficult thing is that he isnt visibly lame because of the shoes, but by your own admission without the shoes he is lame... so he is lame, but the shoes are blocking this.... I understand you frustration, but from a physiotherapists point of view, would you encourage someone with a bad back to run a race with a back brace or would you encourage them to fix their back and build core strength before running that race? it really is no different with the horse. there is so much you can do in the mean time, training wise, sack off the competition... your horse really isnt up to it with feet so bad, spend some time, not filling in the cracks 'band aid style' but adapting the diet, getting things right, ripping the shoes off and letting him have some down time for his hooves to harden off and strengthen... I know from your post, your main focus is 'continue competing' and you do not want to hear this, but give your horse some time and his hooves some proper focus, not some hoof putty for a quick fix but a proper amount of focus and dedication to come right.
 
One question:
Do the feet crack from the nail down?
I would not mind betting that the foot above the nail clenches is in fair order.
If that is the case then the problem is not with the feet, it is the conflict between the shoe and the foot.
If a shod foot is not landing or breaking over correctly then you have a conflict, this has to be absorbed by the attachment system …the nail this in turn starts to move within the wall and create a crack..bingo loose/lost shoe, the problem now is the farrier has to attach a new shoe to damaged tissue, due to the poor quality he/she will now nail to the better wall above the old damaged section, and if the same imbalance persists then all you have done is ruined more wall!
Although I am a farrier who now only performs barefoot trimming I can assure you that if the answer to my first question is yes, then you can be reassured that the wall consistency can improve with a different approach to the shoeing.
 
I should add that nothing you do to the outside of the wall will ,cure the problem.
Diet plays the biggest part in creating good feet.
 
Fab post as always, Heelfirst.

Personally, I would remove the shoes and buy him some boots and pads. As Queenbee rightly says, if he is lame without shoes, then he is a lame horse. He needs to grow some functional feet, and that will never happen with nail on shoes. I too have had good results with glue on shoes (imprints) but they are very expensive. I think boots and pads are the way to go.
 
I guess as well though the more structurally sound the hoof wall is, the better it is at withstanding extra stresses from nails etc.
 
Heelfirst said:
One question:
Do the feet crack from the nail down?
I would not mind betting that the foot above the nail clenches is in fair order.
If that is the case then the problem is not with the feet, it is the conflict between the shoe and the foot.
If a shod foot is not landing or breaking over correctly then you have a conflict, this has to be absorbed by the attachment system …the nail this in turn starts to move within the wall and create a crack..bingo loose/lost shoe, the problem now is the farrier has to attach a new shoe to damaged tissue, due to the poor quality he/she will now nail to the better wall above the old damaged section, and if the same imbalance persists then all you have done is ruined more wall!
Although I am a farrier who now only performs barefoot trimming I can assure you that if the answer to my first question is yes, then you can be reassured that the wall consistency can improve with a different approach to the shoeing.

I should add that nothing you do to the outside of the wall will ,cure the problem.
Diet plays the biggest part in creating good feet.
Click to expand...

Hmm...yes they only crack around the bottom of the hoof where the shoe/nails fit. I have had various farriers (by very good recommendations) and the issue has not changed....is it therefore a shoe balance issue?? if so I may look into glue on shoes if I don't see an improvement in the next few months because I have contacted a nutritional specialist today (horse one, obviously) and have come up with a new feeding program to suit Socks's work load and to help his feet condition.

Thanks for your views everyone - HHO is useful as ever with many wise words :)
 
Wagtail said:
Fab post as always, Heelfirst.

Personally, I would remove the shoes and buy him some boots and pads. As Queenbee rightly says, if he is lame without shoes, then he is a lame horse. He needs to grow some functional feet, and that will never happen with nail on shoes. I too have had good results with glue on shoes (imprints) but they are very expensive. I think boots and pads are the way to go.
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oh, no no - you all misunderstood...I didn't mean he is ALWAYS lame when he loses a shoe. Most of the time he is perfectly sound and it is just a pain as I can't work him for a few days until the farrier comes out. It is only sometimes (when a big chunk breaks off for example...or one occasion the shoe was lose, swung around, and he stood on it uncomfortably and bruised his sole) that he goes unsound. But it is never hopping lame, he just looks ever so slightly uncomfortable (and I only notice as I know his way of going...other people don't notice any lameness)

ETA: re-reading my post about his lameness without shoes I did make it sound like it was always...apologies! Don't really know why I wrote it like that originally!
 
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