This was suggested to me today......is this good idea or not??

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Brambridge04

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Someone at my yard has said, (mare fine on lead rope, broncs when not when she has a rider) "get someone to take lead rope off and get her to move using treats, get person on ground to gradually move further and further away so she has to walk by her self with you on to get to the treat.

I dont know why but im not sure if i like the idea.....doesnt seem to sit right with me, any thoughts?
 
Ok
I have to assume you are backing your beastie and she is broncking as she is a baby/inexperienced.
Give it a go but do it on the lunge.
If you are able get 2 people to help, you lungeing, one rider and another to lead the horse on the outside of the lunge. Lead her as normal on a 20m circle with the person on board and the other also leading from the outside. The only person using the voice should be the rider and they should use the exact commands you do.
Gradually move away from the horse towards the centre of the circle and keep the person leading from the outside. The rider keeps repeating walk on and pats of encouragement until finally you are in the centre. The other leader can then remove the lead rope and continue walking around with the horse, gradually getting further away until the horse is walking free on her own and listening to the rider.
It may take time but I have found this method works really well on insecure babies.
Good luck
Bryndu
 
I have done lots of getting on and off and just sitting, and being led on her, but soon as she is alone she starts to panic, i was going to send her out on the lunge in a few days after she's had a couple more days of the same routine, but someone suggested the treat, it seemed a bit dog training style to me, i dont know if i like the idea....
 
I can understand your anxiety, but sometimes a little bribery and corruption works.
You can only 'treat' her though when she is good, and who knows, a few sweeties may just give her that bit of confidence to know she is ok and doing good.
You haven't got much to lose, and if it works everything to gain.
Bryndu
 
Dont like the idea. Put her on a lunge with rider onboard, if she throws them then make her work hard on the lunge for five minutes and try again. Lunge lines seem to be my answer to everything today!
 
Brambridge04 said:
I have done lots of getting on and off and just sitting, and being led on her, but soon as she is alone she starts to panic, i was going to send her out on the lunge in a few days after she's had a couple more days of the same routine, but someone suggested the treat, it seemed a bit dog training style to me, i dont know if i like the idea....
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You don't say how old she is but personally I reckon she is mentally not ready for this. Give her a few weeks break and concentrate on doing groundwork with her; really gaining her trust and asking her to do increasingly 'scary' things until she looks to you more and more.

Then reback her but be prepared to take things slowly. Literally a step at a time if necessary. A quick fix will do just what it says on the bottle, but this will have a lasting result and remember, right now you are setting her up for life.
 
She has been lunged loads, with and without stirrups down and side reins, long reined (of a fashion with someone at head) trotted few poles on lunge, been laid over and led around, sat on and led around, just seems to panic when asked to go it alone bless her, (teeth/saddle/back checked)
 
she is only 5 ???? i think you need to send her to a professional to ride away. they will have to go back to basics first. most young horses if done right will be walking trot and canter in the menage with a rider, and quiet hacking alone and in company within4 months.
 
The problems you are having have been going on too long - and your mare is on her way to being 'unbreakable'! Either you are missing a signal from her - or she has a teensy screw loose - and it's time you called in a GOOD professional.

The longer the backing process 'stalls' for, the harder it becomes!
 
JanetGeorge said:
The problems you are having have been going on too long - and your mare is on her way to being 'unbreakable'! Either you are missing a signal from her - or she has a teensy screw loose - and it's time you called in a GOOD professional.

The longer the backing process 'stalls' for, the harder it becomes!
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Agree with the above. The horse is either lacking confidence or beginning to learn that misbehaving is a way out. A leader will give a young horse confidence walking alongside a youngster first time off the lunge, but if the job is done right, the horse will soon learn to walk and trot around the arena alone because the vocal commands he has learned on the lunge allow him to understand the aids with the corresponding vocal command. .

Re-assess your lunging programme, does the horse respond to vocal commands well? Are you able to half halt and slow and increase the pace on the lunge? Is the horse responsive and listening to you? Only then would I consider a hrse ready for backing and it is often an intuitive feel that tells you when the horse is ready to go solo. Until the horse is confidently walking and trotting with a rider on the lunge, they are not ready to go it alone.

Another pair of eyes to assess the situation is needed. Steer clear of the treats. Good luck.
 
Have you lunged her with a rider on board? This really is a vital step before she goes it alone so to speak. The lunge line will be routine, give her confidence and also enable the person on the ground to send her forward.

I do agree with JG though. It may be money well spent getting in professional help.
 
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silver zaanif said:
you should not be leading a horse from the floor with a rider on to break it in , ever. send her away to a pro before you wreak her.
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Oh bo**ocks! Leading a horse forward with a rider in the saddle is a useful part of the backing process - what would you suggest - throw the rider on, whack the horse on the ar*e and yell YEE HAA! :rolleyes:
 
See, to me, leading is a better (and most importantly safer) idea than lunging with a leader on the outside. The latter is a great way to get your head kicked in.

OP- try to find the most straightforward person you can to help you. Perhpas there is someone locally you admire for having straightforward young horses out at shows?
 
this sounds like my pony and also another horse at the same yard.
my pony would pretty much sit on top of me when being led, if i stepped back to his shoulders he wouldn't move at all.
i have got him more confident by walking further and further away from him (to the side NOT in front), when he came in on me i'd push him out and then praise when he was away from me. i can now walk about 8' away from him and he's happy and confident.

the other horse wouldn't step at all unless someone was by her head, my OH would stand about 4' away from her eating a packet of polos but kind of ignoring her, she soon figured that by walking to him she would get something, the rider would do everything physically possible to get her moving but she wouldn't budge for love nor money. now she will hack out around the area without bribery as my OH would get further and further away from her she learnt that she could actually put one foot in front of the other with someone on board and not fall over!!
 
JanetGeorge said:
Oh bo**ocks! Leading a horse forward with a rider in the saddle is a useful part of the backing process - what would you suggest - throw the rider on, whack the horse on the ar*e and yell YEE HAA! :rolleyes:
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now your being silly.

i have seen so many accidents cause by people leading horses in this way, the young horse should move forward if you are leading it with a rider on it wont learn this properly and you will end up with a stuffy horse, you are teaching it the hard way. tack on , lunge till its happy, long rien a bit so you have stearing, lean on, get on , ride it useing voice and a person on the floor with a lunge whip to keep going forward. as soon as you can walk trot canter stop turn get out of the school with a experienced horse/ we have broken hundreds of horses this way, from batches of racehorses to big warmbloods to older horses that were never broken till we got them at 7-9 yrs. 9 times out of ten they are sat on by the end of day two cantering undersaddle ( just a little) by the end of the week and out with the schoolmaster no prob. I have 'touchwood' never had a horse that did not respond to this way of being backed in a totaly posative way. the only one that ever bucked to get rider off was a horse that has been led from the floor with a rider on and as such did not want to go forward.
 
silver zaanif said:
i have seen so many accidents cause by people leading horses in this way, the young horse should move forward if you are leading it with a rider on it wont learn this properly and you will end up with a stuffy horse,
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You must have been watching some useless people then! With about 50% of the horses we back we lead them forward when the rider first goes up, just for a few minutes, and perhaps again the next day. The VERY odd horse doesn't respond well - he can't run (because he is being led) - so he bucks. It is only done to get the horse over the first initial 'shock' of something on his back - so it has NO long-term effect on the horse's way of going.

With SOME horses, we use a method very similar to your own. It depends on the individual's temperament and experiences of life what works best. (Ands I've backed hundreds too - including a number branded 'unbreakable' by other professionals! :rolleyes:)
 
horses for courses i guess, and i would agree all that i have seen doing it by leading were very usless. i still think it is a bad idea, and i dont think having a rider on a horses back should ever be a 'shock' but perhaps we should agree to dissagree, most horses end up in the same place in training at the end and we all have our prefered way of doing things, dont make me do it your way and i wont make you do it mine!!

I still think though that the horse this tread is about needs to go to a pro now, it seems she has an issue and it sounds like it needs to be nipped in the bud which may be best done by sending her away to boarding school.
 
its 5. should have been nipped in the bud 12 months ago! no breaker is ever the same. no pattern works on all. no point arguing who is right or wrong! at the moment the op's horse is testing its weight and quirks and winning. OP get some professional help as i said earlier otherwise you will end up with a cranky horse worth only turners money!
 
If'd i had had her 12 months ago it wouldve been nipped in the bud. Ive had her since end of october, and she was unhandeled when she came to me.

She will now lunge, tack up, be handeled, let you sit on and be led, but starts to bronc, almost in a panicky way when you try and get her to go it alone, someone suggested the treat thing, or following another horse.....
 
I don't think its a good idea. It needs to be sat and pushed on.. I'd send it to a professional if it can't be easily solved at home as at 5 it should have those kind of issues flattened already :)
 
Brambridge04 said:
If'd i had had her 12 months ago it wouldve been nipped in the bud. Ive had her since end of october, and she was unhandeled when she came to me.

She will now lunge, tack up, be handeled, let you sit on and be led, but starts to bronc, almost in a panicky way when you try and get her to go it alone, someone suggested the treat thing, or following another horse.....
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Yup, but you rushed it to start with and are now reaping the problems.

Get yourself a sensible book on breaking young horses and follow all the steps, without rushing.

However as I suspect you won't do that read back through what has been said so far and the thing that stands out is that she hasn't been longreined without a leader. Take her back to where she's happy long reining with a leader and get the leader to distance themselves from her so she learns that it's perfectly ok and perfectly safe to accept instruction and reassurance only from the reins and voice of one person.
 
But have you actually had a rider on her on the lunge??? You can’t just plop someone on her, lead her around a bit and then expect her to stride of confidently without any direction or security! You really need to gain her confidence with a rider and for me lunging (with someone on) is a really good way to do it.

With mine I start of the same way I do as when teaching a horse to lunge, rider on top, me the person on the ground just behind or at the horses girth. Send her forwards on a small circle with the voice commands she should know well. Rider at this point is just a passenger. Practice stop, walk on and stop again. Change the rein and do the same again. When she is comfortable (not all in the same session) gradually increase your circles, do the same again, introduce small amounts of trot gradually increasing in length and time. Gradually start combining voice commands with rider’s aids. Only when they are going forward happily and understanding the aids do I let mine off and even then I take a lunging position to give them confidence and send them forwards if need be.

I would also add as she came to you unhandled she has experienced lots of new things in quite a short time. It does sound like a confidence issue and by taking the pressure off by going back a step (or a few if needed) you may find the problem resolves it self.
 
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Brambridge04 said:
She has been lunged loads, with and without stirrups down and side reins, long reined (of a fashion with someone at head) trotted few poles on lunge, been laid over and led around, sat on and led around, just seems to panic when asked to go it alone bless her, (teeth/saddle/back checked)
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I haven't read the rest of this post, so not sure if it's been said already, but I think you need to get her longreining properly, without someone at her head.
I wouldn't even be getting on her until she does this confidently in and out of the arena.
 
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