Thoroughbreds

Prince33Sp4rkle said:
its sad that their reputation preceeds them, most are not loopy self harming nutters with poor feet, but ask around any yard and more people than not will say exactly that.

iv had 2 now with super duper feet, that competed barefoot, hacked barefoot etc and both have the pain threhsold of an elephant and even if they suffer a *surface wound* are still raring to get stuck in to the job.

i dount i will ever have anything else now, i love their heart :)
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I totally agree with this comment. I have two - one aged 20 who is barefoot on the back feet and an 8 year old mare who is currently barefoot all round. They both have physical scars, but they are not affected by them and they are the easiest, kindest horses to own. I took the 20 year old to dressage last night (admittedly it was unaffiliated, but at a well known college where the standard is known to be high) and got 65% and came fourth out of a field of around 20. It was so nice to take my TB and be able to compete equally amongst the WBs and Hanos.
Like the above, as long as I have horses, the will be TBs.
 
The thing with thoroughbreds is they are rarely, if ever, bred for anything other than SPEED. Nice movement, the ability to jump, pleasant temperment, sturdy legs, good feet, etc are largely fortunate (but generally unintended) side effects of the breeding processs!

Even within the bloodstock industry, National Hunt stallions usually start life as flat horses that fail to produce progency that can contest the upper echelons of flat racing. Whether the horses can actually jump or not is a secondary consideration.

Its pretty unusual in this day and age that you ever get a full bred thoroughbred that was bred for the specific purpose of becoming a top class sport horse. Breeders that use thoroughbreds for the purpose of breeding sport horses will generally cross with a warm blood to breed out some of the less attractive traits of the thoroughbred breed like lightness of bone, hot temperment, tendency to be careless and flatten when jumping.

Because they are generally bred for the purpose of running as fast as possible, it can be hit and miss as to whether they can make the transition to the job of competition horse. For every Miners Frolic, Kilpatrick River and Moonfleet, there are thousands more that will struggle to jump, move very averagely and be difficult to train effectively which is why they are generally so cheap. Its a pretty substantial risk taking one on as there's a far higher chance of it failing to be successful than something that was bred specifically for to compete in a given discipline.

All this said, when you do get a good thoroughbred, there is nothing better! My top horse to date was a full bred thoroughbred that was difficult as hell on the but jumped for sport!
 
i agree with most of what you say, but there are very average examples of every breed, a lot of warmbloods dont have the best feet or temperaments for eg.

another mistake that people make is to think a TB is a TB IE they are all much of a muchness and thus buy one that is maybe not totally suited to their purpose becaue they are giving it the benefit of the doubt for being a TB......its no wonder it then doesnt excel and then that person writes all TB's off as useless.

you need to to look at them as a horse and assess what your disipline needs....i went searching for an uphill, short backed fancy mover with a nice open shoulder....and found one. eventers need one with good legs, bravery and a sensible brain, sj'ers want scope and care-dont make too many allowance, buy what you genuinely need and you'll have a better chance of success. i only have experience of dressage and TB's but see people who buy downhill herring gutted blood weeds and then complain its not a level playing field with the warmbloods, well it would be if you'd bought a better example more suited to your needs!

does anyone get the point im trying to make?!
 
I think there is loads of interesting stuff on this thread......

I've experienced some useless ones (tbs), and some great ones. Sensible ones and mad ones.....big ones, small ones - just like people in fact :rolleyes:

I think the point about buying what you need is a good one and extends to all breeds. How often do we see people buying massive warmbloods to do dressage on and can't ride one side of their shiny new purchase? And others that want a competition horse but don't want to spend any money so they pick up an ex-racer dirt cheap - which in theory is fine but it does sadden me when they become frustrated and 'quick' with the horse because they either need more time and more experienced handling than they are getting, or they are simply not the next Miners Frolic and never will be. Sometimes they end up on project horses because they have issues......

I love TB's, I like their energy and intelligence, and the little horse I had before my current one who was 90% tb had an incredible work ethic. Easy to get fit, didn't get fat, had great feet and loved to work. He was very very buzzy though which made dressage a bit of a non-event and the showjumping interesting :rolleyes: He is now with a teenager that adores him and they are having a lot of fun - given that he was safe as houses out hacking they are a perfect match.

I think what I am trying to say is that I wish people would give more thought to what they are buying. There are too many horses bred - fact. A lot of horses are bought by the wrong people - fact. Some people should not have horses at all - fact!!! How do we try and encourage people to buy suitable horses though? It's great when people consult their trainer/instructor and they work together to find something that fits the bill, experienced people probably know what they want and go on instinct, but a lot of more novice people like the look of a flashy smart horse, or over estimate their abilities and end up with something they will never be able to ride and as a result the horse gets more and more fed up and more and more naughty/soured and end up on project horses.......:rolleyes:

Happens to all sorts of horses, but because ex-racers are cheap they seem to be more vulnerable. :(
 
I like TBs but the ones I like always go for mega money. The attributes of a good race horse are similar to a good eventer. I am tall so need at least 16.1hh and I like the old fashioned type of TB which are slower developers and trainers seem to be happy to be have a little patience with these.
At Ascot everything I liked went for over £4k.

I have a friend who breeds. They are all out of black type mares yet the amount of runts they get who are just horrible are high. There is also fashion - my friend bred what was the fashion two years ago but this year they are all totally out of favour and no money.
I told them to stop breeding TBs and with the mix of black type damlines put them to a seriously nice sportshorse sire. They have all the facilities to break them at 3 and leave them to sell at 4 and would probably get better money.

Saying that wastage happens everywhere. I have a nice Danish Warmblood who cost £300. He moves like a dream, is brave and nice looking but somehow ends up at meat money and so is worth a punt on to see if he will event.
 
I think a good horse is a good horse no matter what breed, but as there are so many tbs bred in the UK there are as a result so many duds about :(

1000's of tbs leave racing each year and they all have to go somewhere...

food chain
rehabilitated
competitive homes
pts
 
I am on my third ex-racehorse and to be perfectly honest I dont really think that I would have any other sort of horse now.

The first was a ride I won from a lady that was scared of her mare because they were a bit miss matched. When I took her on she could barely walk in a straight line and by the time I had finished with her 2 years later, she was hacking and placing at Novice level BD. She had been a champion flat racer that had then had a less than lovely home for 8 years and was turned away. When we got her she was 15 and still a handful. She was one of the kindest mares you ever met though.

The second I still have an will NEVER part with. I first met Bear when she was 2 and had been given to an event rider friend as a gift by the Sultan of Bruni's racing yard as she was too slow. She was turned away for 18months and then brought back into work. At 4 I bought her and she was flying over 1.20m and never stopped at a thing - it was jsut a great shame that she had a conformation problem and now at the grand old age of 6 she is retired from competition (which is a shame as she was tipped for International Eventing). We plan to breed from her though.

My other one is a real superstar. I found him online at Michael Owen's (of the England footballer fame) racing yard's website as a re-homing horse. He was bred by the Owen's and raced by them and was very successful. He was then being re-homed at age 6 for a new career. I have had him about 6 months and he got 70% on his first time out at Dressage which was Novice level, and if flying over fences.

I have never found it difficult to find good TB's - just call a few racing or breeding yards and express an interest in any that may become available. All i would say is that you have to move quickly as they often get snapped up by the professionals. Some professionals actually have agreements with trainers to get specific types of TB's when they come out of racing. It think alot of TB's are mis-understood and are also miss matched with their owners and that is when they are found left at sales.

If anyone would like more info on finding ex-racers or re-training them, feel free to PM me.
 
My TB never raced, and I love her to bits. She's not the most amazing competition horse (we have others for that), but she's attached to me and I to her, she's trustworthy, bags of fun and just such a lovely 'person'. She keeps me sane and cares if I'm miserable, whereas the others are 'true' horses - would rather be with their own kind. I love how humanised TBs are, but would only ever keep one at a time - expensive much!
 
I think the main issue with TBs is simply over breeding and a lack of very experienced people to take them on. Like any breed they can be so fantastic but they are higher maintenance than other breeds and they need more contact time and a higher level of experience. I have a 3/4 TB who I adore more than anything in the world but he has so many quirks. Sometimes I have no idea how I put up with them and I know many others wouldn't. I think sometimes he forgets that he isn't full TB! (Unfortunately he has inherited the dodgy feet :rolleye)

If every TB that wasn't so easy went to a knowledgeable home with confident riders and handlers, then there wouldn't be a problem but because of their price, and of the sheer amount of them, far too many go to homes that aren't equipped to deal with them.

I'm probably sounding a bit harsh on TBs, I love them and appreciate their character, but they do take more time and effort than other breeds.
 
princess_skills said:
At 4 I bought her and she was flying over 1.20m and never stopped at a thing - it was jsut a great shame that she had a conformation problem and now at the grand old age of 6 she is retired from competition (which is a shame as she was tipped for International Eventing). We plan to breed from her though.
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Dear God why?! Please don't take this the wrong way but there are so many horses needing homes why breed another one from a mare with a conformation fault that ended her ridden career? :confused:

I'm sorry I just can't fathom it :(
 
What an interesting post.

My TB is sharpe, eats alot and has rubbish feet. He is quick to get stressed if he doesnt get his own way and needs constant work.

He is also brave as a lion, I cant reach the end of his scope, he loves his work, is really sensitive and he looks after me every step of the way XC, Im sure he could do it with out me.

They are all different and should be treated as such. I agree that ex racers should be humainly (sp) PTS if he is not going to be useful in a new job.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
downhill herring gutted blood weeds :D :D :D :D


does anyone get the point im trying to make?!
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I do, I get the point. Someone came to look at one of ours today and guess what for??? Horseball. She wants something safe, fast, young and a horse not scared of the ball. He was brilliant and wasn't scared of the ball at all, what a saint he was. They are coming back on Sunday for a second look, fingers crossed

So all you horse ballers out there, get a TB, or come and looks at ours lol
 
A comment on the 'exces wear and tear' aspect of buying an ex racehorse.....

My OH had a small TB (15.3) who was raced (P to P and NH - had over 30 starts) until he was 12, then retrained for eventing. He got up to intermediate (dressage was awful but rest fab) and competed at this level until the age of 18 where he did another couple of years as lead horse for friends XC schooling etc. He was sound throughout (apart from the odd foot abcess). His SI joint eventually siezed up, but he made it to a fair age without any degenerative changes whatsoever.

I have heard of plenty of other breeds WBs etc (who aren't worked so intensively as youngsters) going lame at 6 or 7 ish to think that a good well made sound TB is a very good bet.

Fiona
 
I currently have a tb and recently sold another . They couldn't have been more different - the baby who I sold was a confident,happy little chap who didn't ever say no and constantly surprised me with his grown up attitude to life - first little comp - nearly 70% in a dressage test,warmed up in indoor school having never been in one,banners by the school not a problem and was generally a little sweetheart all day :D He is a proper chunky boy who had just gone into a x wide saddle and has grown a hand in the last 7 months. He has gone to a fab pony club home for two sisters . My other one is more of a thinker and a worrier but that is him and I think he would be the same if he was an ID,WB etc etc. He is a scopy as the day is long and easy to keep fit and on the road. He keeps his shoes on for 8 weeks (thanks to my fabulous farrier) and doesn't cost me anymore than previous horses to feed. He is talented beyond my riding abilities and would love to see what he could really do one day :D He has a serious jump on him and this was part of the reason he retired - showjumped all the hurdles :D

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Yes he needs to be kept in work and interested but I have gained more experience with him in the last three years than all my other horses combined and he has given me some major highs eg first 1.30m course,first county show level show,first championship show and has qualified for UK chasers,trailblazers,Ponies UK,ex racer club and equifest with numpty little me. If you can get one on side they will try their heart out for you - roll on next spring for the next project :D
 
I have a TB which I got off the track, he is the sweetest, politest, kindest horse I've ever had. He was a successful hurdler and was retired at 5 because he stopped winning races.

I have taken my time with him and it has paid off. They are no worse or better than any other horse generally, it's what you do with them and what you expect of them that matters and defines what they become.
 
only_me said:
Just to say, they are being left at sales, but not just tbs - all types of horses are being tied up and left at sales here in Ireland if they do not sell. Last year, at an event, someone came back from xc to find another horse left in her lorry...!

That is so random, I wonder on what basis they choose her lorry - did she keep it?
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I have a 17H Ex racer (hurdler/ptp, novice chaser). He was in training for a good 6 years (finished at 11) He's 13 now. Bought him at Melton Mowbray sales, and he's the most genuine, polite, fun horse I know. He's a absolute pleasure and I'm going to show him on ROR classes next year.
He's so safe, even my novice dad can put him out in the mornings. Had my first lesson on him last sun and he didn't put a foot wrong. And when all the other geldings were charging around he didn't even raise his head! He's very popular and have had nothing but positive comments about him. YO (who's a BHSAI and been round horses for 25 +years) called him perfect.. think she wants a go! :D Love my boy so much x
 
kerilli said:
I like everything about TBs apart from their feet. If you can get one with good feet, that hasn't been hammered while in training, they are super horses.
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Mine is quite happily barefoot... good enough hooves for you?! :D

I look at my horse and sometimes, I'm just gobsmacked that I've ended up with a horse that looks like the ones I used to watch going round Badminton and Hickstead as a kid, I just grew up thinking racehorses were nutters.

Mine is amazing, we've done RC dressage, been to a Mary King XC clinic, we hack out in company, we hack alone :D he's not easy at times (walking in from the field at night can be rather exciting at times!) but he's never been boring!

The biggest issue I have is that he's sticky to jump, the more he does the better he is but I haven't done much at all this year, I think with a little work I'll get that sorted.

I know what at least dozen or so ex-racers retrained that I can think of I know personally and hand on heart there is only one I can say that I wouldn't be happy to ride, but I'm a massive wimp!
 
i believe there is a lot of unsoundness in wb's, is well known that selle francais and trotters have a lot of sitfle probs and ocd, maybe the reason some of the horses mentioned on here have done so well is because on some level, not necessarily good looks, but basically they are put together correctly somehow and after all i think they are the most athletic of all horses, when i visited the horseball nearly all the top horses were tbs, is there no limit to their talents?
 
Must admit I haven't read all of this thread as at a kids party and battery very low on iPhone, feel I need to conserve it to help keep me sane for the next hour. I do however want to add my boys story.

We moved to a house with a yard 6 months ago, one of hubbys friends came to see the new yard with his girlfriend in tow. His girlfriend works in the offices at the national racing college in Doncaster (10 mins from my house) and was currently looking for a home for one of the horses that had been used in the college, but was getting a little too old to cope with the gallops twice a day. So of course the day after I found myself going to look at this horse.

I got there to find this gorgeous kind eyed head looking over the door, then I saw the rest of him. I swear you could see every single rib, hip bones jutting out, covered in scars and scabs. Turns out he had been a victim of the free horse = bargain brigade. The racing college had rehomed him and another horse to a lady two years previous. She then rang them two years later saying that she couldn't cope with them and the college either needed to take them back or could she have permission to ring the meat man. The college took them back and were disgusted with the state of them. Sadly they lost the other horse shortly after getting them back. Turns out the woman hadn't realised the level of care tb's require. They had been turned out 24/7 all year round, no rugs as thru hadn't come with any and she couldn't afford to buy them any, they hadn't been given any extra forage or hard feed. Both horses were lame because they hadn't been shod or even trimmed regularly, then to top it off she divorced her husband and lost her grazing.

Of course he ended up at mine. He costs me a fortune in hay and feed but is slowly starting to look better, I have spent near on £1000 on rugs alone. He's currently wearing two heavy weight turnouts at once cos he's such a wuss!! But in return I have the most sweet, genuine horse I know. He's a dream to ride, starting to school really well, absolutely bomb proof out hacking, I've even had my Very novice mum on him after 21 years of not riding. In fact if he wasn't 17hh i'd rather my 4 yo ride him than her own 11.2 pain of a welshie.

It just shows that ex racers are good for something, and can make very genuine riding horses. but even when they're free they are never a bargain and need a good, knowledgable home (and an endless pot of money) to keep them healthy and happy. What worries me is how many of these cheap or free tb's end up in the wrong hands and just like my boy sunnycliff's old friend don't make it out alive.
 
My ex-racer (who is official mine again! He's back home and can't wait to see him next weekend :D ) had awful feet. They were strong but incredibly flat. He was forever getting bruised soles but now we know how to manage it with care and correct feeding they are much better.
Anyway, we never made it to the level I would have liked but now he's back, i'll do what ever he's happy doing. He's so lovely and easy to handle. However as a 4/5 year old, he was not easy to ride but so glad we got through it as he turned out fab :)
I would happily get an ex racer again, I find them incredibly versatile but I completely understand where the others are coming from about choosing tbs for certain disciplines, you'd do it with any other breed!
 
I agree with so many of the sentiments expressed on this thread regarding TBs being a by-product of an industry, having to breed so many to get that one champion, how they're bred overall to be speedy and everything else secondary (understandable in a competitive industry). I also agree they have wonderful, brave hearts but are easily misunderstood and not always easily homed.

It took me a loooooooong time to "understand" our ex-racer, we bought her (and paid far too much for her even when the market was good) we then proceeded to make about every mistake you could make with a young horse, especially an ex racer. We were the last people who should have had a horse like that. We had been told she was reschooled but of course that's a pretty subjective thing :D In the end I would not handle her at all but my daughter kept with her.

She was probably frustrated by our lack of routine and our general timidity, probably in a lot of discomfort that we didn't spot. We spoiled her as well-she became a monster- and we had to figure out what to do about it which has led to us learning so much and meeting a lot of great people.

On the whole I'm glad we stuck with her, even though no doubt we have many challenges still to come. She and I are even friends again now, and I can see her for the diamond she is.
 
The conformation problem isn't gentic (and we have spent time and money on getting this tested) she just grew a bit funny. I wouldnt breed from her otherwise. She is still ridable just not to the level she once was.
 
several people have metioned rugs and care needed, i put it this way, they need the kind of care that really ups your game, that can't be a bad thing it teaches you to think constantly and try to do better, and in return i have a stunning creature to ride, that's if i can ride it! so again it ups your game to master the art of riding the best breed of horse and if you can do that i think you can know inside yourself that you have achieved a high level of riding skill.
mine can mostly live out well if suitably rugged with different weight rugs, but i'm always on the watchout for inclement weather and bring them in at night, even in summer if the rain is cold and they are wet through to dry them off and warm them through, and fly protection, best bought in during the day out at night, and i'm sure it helps to keep them at a yard where you can at least lunge them before riding, to assess mood, release excess energy and loosen up
 
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