Those in Scotland with Right to Roam on horseback?/Scottish Landowners

P

Patches

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 February 2005
Messages
10,028
Visit site
Just a couple of questions.

Are you allowed to ride anywhere....meaning fields full of livestock too, or just arable headlands?

Who is legally responsible if an accident occured whilst you're riding in the field....meaning do you ride at your own risk? Ie..if your horse put it's foot in a rabbit hole, would you then be able to sue the landowner? (because let's face it, if we have to go and look for rabbit holes we might as well give up farming now!)

What if you leave gates open and stock gets out on to roads, causing accidents? How do the land owners indemnify themselves against such an incident. The rider would be long gone, so it's not like you could prove who was to blame.

Are there any times of the year when the right to access is restricted?

An additional point. Are there any restrictions on dog walking? Are you allowed to exercise dogs over any farmland whatsoever? Do you have a legal requirement to pick up droppings after your dog or is the livestock exposed to the potential harm dog faeces can cause (especially in pregnant cows)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I used to live in Scotland and recommend that you look at the BHS Scotland website http://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/index.html , and maybe talk to the Development Officer, she's very approachable and will be able to help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just wondering how it worked, in theory. I don't live in Scotland myself.

I'm more interested to hear from landowners. Are they as happy as the horse riders/dog walkers about the right to free access to anywhere on their land.

Does it mean you're allowed to ride right down farm tracks into farm yards themselves?

Don't have time to scan the sites at the mo....just dishing up a late evening meal. The joys of kids and riding. What if the landowner had some show jumps and a dressage arena marked out in a field....would you have the right to ride over those fences or school in that arena?
 
[ QUOTE ]

Does it mean you're allowed to ride right down farm tracks into farm yards themselves?

Don't have time to scan the sites at the mo....just dishing up a late evening meal. The joys of kids and riding. What if the landowner had some show jumps and a dressage arena marked out in a field....would you have the right to ride over those fences or school in that arena?

[/ QUOTE ]

Farm yards: you should avoid. Jumps/arena: you should ask permission, as stated on the site.
 
I live in Scotland and am not very sure of the rules but personally I would not dream of going onto anyones land without previously confirming that this was ok with them. I would be raging mad if horse riders trotted past my place and decided to pop jumps that may be in the field or round a marked arena - bloody cheek IMO!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I live in Scotland and am not very sure of the rules but personally I would not dream of going onto anyones land without previously confirming that this was ok with them. I would be raging mad if horse riders trotted past my place and decided to pop jumps that may be in the field or round a marked arena - bloody cheek IMO!

[/ QUOTE ]

I like how it says ask permission to use them.

I wouldn't dream of even asking...it'd be the same as me nipping down the road and asking everyone who has an arena if I can use their facilities free of charge.

I reckon all replies would be a resounding "on ya bike ya cheeky bint".
grin.gif
shocked.gif


I would be horrified if I were to put up some XC fences on my private land and found every Tom, Dick and Harry schooling over them as and when they pleased.

There has to be some regulation over what can be deemed as private or for sole use. The fact that my XC fences are dotted around our pasture land should not mean they are there for free use.

Made me wonder how facilities such as Somerford Park Farm around here would fare up that way. Surely no one would have the need to book themselves in to a farm ride if they can just help themselves to anyone else's hard paid for land.

You can tell I'm bitter.....but I really don't understand why a privilege we work so damned hard for (dairy farming is not an easy life) should be there for the taking of every bugger else.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I live in Scotland and am not very sure of the rules but personally I would not dream of going onto anyones land without previously confirming that this was ok with them. I would be raging mad if horse riders trotted past my place and decided to pop jumps that may be in the field or round a marked arena - bloody cheek IMO!

[/ QUOTE ]

I like how it says ask permission to use them.

I wouldn't dream of even asking...it'd be the same as me nipping down the road and asking everyone who has an arena if I can use their facilities free of charge.

I reckon all replies would be a resounding "on ya bike ya cheeky bint".
grin.gif
shocked.gif


I would be horrified if I were to put up some XC fences on my private land and found every Tom, Dick and Harry schooling over them as and when they pleased.

There has to be some regulation over what can be deemed as private or for sole use. The fact that my XC fences are dotted around our pasture land should not mean they are there for free use.

Made me wonder how facilities such as Somerford Park Farm around here would fare up that way. Surely no one would have the need to book themselves in to a farm ride if they can just help themselves to anyone else's hard paid for land.

You can tell I'm bitter.....but I really don't understand why a privilege we work so damned hard for (dairy farming is not an easy life) should be there for the taking of every bugger else.

[/ QUOTE ] totally agree here- its a very confusing and grey area - what is 'responsible' and how can you prove this? Personally if I had spent a good few thousand on x-country jumps I would not be happy if local riders decided they had the 'right' to ride over them. What if they fell at a jump?
 
[ QUOTE ]


I like how it says ask permission to use them.

I wouldn't dream of even asking...it'd be the same as me nipping down the road and asking everyone who has an arena if I can use their facilities free of charge.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. If I had no access to a school or jumps, I might approach someone who has facilities, and offer to pay for the privilege. I can use the facilities at the local riding school, including the XC jumps, but I paid for a membership there.

Most of the advice is really about common courtesy and common sense: don't damage other people's property, respect their privacy, and treat other land users politely. It shouldn't be so difficult.
 
Another Question- say I lock my gate to my field full of coloured horses (to stop them from being stolen etc) does this right to roam mean that someone can come along and cut the chain open to enable their 'right to roam'?
 
I live in Scotland and would never dream of riding anywhere that I didn't have prior permission for. And as for dog walking- most of the land around us is pasture- occasionally fields are grown for silage but I wouldn't, nor would most people I know, take dogs across crops or into fields with livestock in them. The dogs are at heel if we do go across the hill and there are sheep about.

Most of the land around here is too boggy to ride on anyway. We're stuck with the roads for hacking as we have no bridle paths either.

I think the Access laws work out of a mutual respect. A farmer friend of mine has put up signs and directions for footpaths to a hill loch, accessed through his yard, and this stops people wandering through his cattle parks. If the local authority, landowners and the public work in partnership it prevents a "them and us" mentality forming. If someone is amenable and nice to you, it's less likely that you'll go in all guns blazing if, perish the thought there is an accident, with most people anyway.

At the same time, I rent 7acres for my horses next to my house and there is a right of access path straight through the middle of the park, used regularly by people locally. i have never had any issues with people not respecting the fact that there are horses in there. Probably the fact that they are both overly friendly and curious puts some people off using it as they will always canter/ trot over to say hello
grin.gif


I can't speak for the rest of Scotland but people seem to welcome the open access for all here- after all, tourism is also a growing part of rural economies given the slump in agriculture and perhaps, embracing "responsible" access for all will be beneficial to all. I do have to agree though, I don't think it's fair that the landowner should be liable for any injury, etc.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Another Question- say I lock my gate to my field full of coloured horses (to stop them from being stolen etc) does this right to roam mean that someone can come along and cut the chain open to enable their 'right to roam'?

[/ QUOTE ]

This would count as damaging property and would hardly be considered responsible access, would it? So no, it doesn't apply.

ETS: the question about someone coming in and using your jumps or arena is simply- they can't. It's about access to "land", not people's equipment or facilities. As one poster has already said- its about common sense and acting responsibly.

I have no issue with people walking through my horses field- if the horses were not good with dogs- I would put up signs to that effect. Thankfully dog owners around here are well versed in the whole dog/ livestock issue so dogs don't tend to be taken through the field. A few weeks ago, two kids were kicking a ball around just over the fence from their gran's house in the field- again- why should I have an issue with that unless they were disturbing the horses, which they weren't.
 
*sigh* have any of you bothered to actually read the code? It clearly the states that the code does not apply in: 'land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use' - ie if you hire out a cross country course, the access code doesn't apply.

I don't really want to have to go through the code explaining it all as if you are really interested, you can read it yourself.

Patches, you do sound bitter. I can't understand why are you so upset about something that doesn't even effect you as you don't live in Scotland.
A
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another Question- say I lock my gate to my field full of coloured horses (to stop them from being stolen etc) does this right to roam mean that someone can come along and cut the chain open to enable their 'right to roam'?

[/ QUOTE ]

This would count as damaging property and would hardly be considered responsible access, would it? So no, it doesn't apply.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the answer- because I dont live in scotland- i find this very interesting and was just mulling over this idea of 'right to roam'. So I presume then that a locked field etc means that you cannot roam? So does the right only extend to open/unenclosed areas of land?
 
[ QUOTE ]

You can tell I'm bitter.....but I really don't understand why a privilege we work so damned hard for (dairy farming is not an easy life) should be there for the taking of every bugger else.

[/ QUOTE ]
A bit off topic, but this bugged me. Since when is what we have directly related to how hard we work? Does Wayne Rooney work so much harder than any random nurse or builder? I'm happy for you that you have achieved a goal of owning land, but do you not feel a certain amount of obligation to share the enjoyment of it with people who may not have had the luck and commitment to become farmers, but who want to enjoy the countryside? No one can "take" your land, but it strikes me as mean that you resent people passing through it and think they didn't work hard enough to buy their own.
 
We find that it basically does mean that people can (and some will) just go where ever they please but as we have marked routes over our land they are quite likely to get lost if they don't follow them! We put warnings up where there are bulls etc in a field. We have had chains on gates and fences cut despite the warnings. There should be a happy medium but there are a few folk with a right bee in their bonnet who are not prepared to sit and listen to why it might be necessary to keep them off that particular route.
It's a shame really as I think with a bit of give and take we could all try and live happily .
 
I rent land in Scotland over which a lot of Access is taken--so many people walk the riverbank a track is made
The dog walkers do not lift poo, their dogs are loose amongst my sheep
I would be very upset if someone tried to ride through it when my horses were out--it has happened once and is downright dangerous.
My gate is locked for that reason.
I expect to ride headlands of wheat/barley field without asking, would not ride through cows normally but if they are on part of a promoted trail or on unfenced road you dont have much choice.
To me the code is more generous on paper than in reality
Farmers still complain much more about dog walkers than horse riders but the biggest issue of all is the wild camping some people now assume you can pull up and camp anywhere without permission and many leave their rubbish and disposable ''festival'' tents behind when they leave
 
QR As Arabelle has said, you'll find answers to most of your questions by clicking on the link she gave and then on 'Scottish Outdoor Access Code'.

It isn't a licence to go wherever and whenever you want - there are plenty of places still off limits for safety/environmental/agricultural reasons.

And, yes, it does get abused by a tiny minority. A landowner near us padlocked a field gate because he had cows calving there, as he had every right to do under the legislation. A local riding school boxed over some horses for a hack, took the gate off its hinges and left it lying on the ground. That's not 'responsible' access in anyone's book!
 
I live and have land in scotland , and yes it would anger me greatly if people abused it. im in a very remote area so it does not happen (fingers crossed)
i realy do not see why people have to go through fields with livestock or horses if there is another route they could take.
 
[ QUOTE ]
*sigh* have any of you bothered to actually read the code? It clearly the states that the code does not apply in: 'land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use' - ie if you hire out a cross country course, the access code doesn't apply.

I don't really want to have to go through the code explaining it all as if you are really interested, you can read it yourself.

Patches, you do sound bitter. I can't understand why are you so upset about something that doesn't even effect you as you don't live in Scotland.
A

[/ QUOTE ]

..,..because one day it might become law down here too. You never know.

I'm not really that bitter but I wouldn't go and ask if I could sit in the person's garden down the road because it's nicer the garden I have to sit in....so I can't see why anyone should have free access to blast through the fields that we have paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for just because it's nicer than the areas they have to ride in. We've paid an arm and a leg for that privilege...why should our investment be free for everyone else to use for their own purposes?

I know the code says anything developed for recreation of the land owner is excluded....but you're not really going to tell me that people won't have a crafty jump over privately built XC jumps in a field they have free access to ride through? Some will respect it....others will absolutely disregard the rules for their own personal hooray henry moment.

As I said earlier in the thread, if we had headlands around crops that people wanted to hack around, or canter if the going was good, then I would have no objection. I just don't see how we can be expected to farm a big dairy outfit properly and safely if we could see dozens of horses flying through all areas of the fields at any moment.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You can tell I'm bitter.....but I really don't understand why a privilege we work so damned hard for (dairy farming is not an easy life) should be there for the taking of every bugger else.

[/ QUOTE ]
A bit off topic, but this bugged me. Since when is what we have directly related to how hard we work? Does Wayne Rooney work so much harder than any random nurse or builder? I'm happy for you that you have achieved a goal of owning land, but do you not feel a certain amount of obligation to share the enjoyment of it with people who may not have had the luck and commitment to become farmers, but who want to enjoy the countryside? No one can "take" your land, but it strikes me as mean that you resent people passing through it and think they didn't work hard enough to buy their own.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't talk so bloody ridiculously!!!!!
mad.gif


We have footpaths through our fields and people are free to walk them whenever they choose. (The fact they choose to roam the fields off the paths is a different matter).

We're not lucky or fortunate to be farmers really....18 hours a day 365 days a year is damned bloody hard work for anyone. It's not an easy life at all.

Why should we feel obligated to allow anyone and everyone to ride their horses through our land? The people up the lane to us have a swimming pool. Should they feel obligated to allow the whole village to take over their pool whenever they fancy a dip? Of course not!

What bugs me is that farmland has always been viewed as a free for all by a vast majority of the public. Not many people respect the laws of privacy or trespass when it comes to farmland and right to roam only further enforces other peoples view that our land is effectively common land and free for all.

If you owned a dairy farm, you would see where I am coming from. It's not selfishness at all....it's a genuine fear of liability and wondering who or what might be where on your land when you want to enter it yourself.

As for Wayne Rooney...what the devil has he got to do with it? Of course he doesn't work harder than a builder or a nurse? What a bizarre comparison to make. He's just paid more. We on other hand are no doubt paid much less than all three and probably work far more hours. However...this is about the amount of hours in a working week. This is about the sacrifices we make to be able to run a farm. The freedom to move around our land is one of the few perks of living this lifestyle.
 
It may be YOUR land, Patches, and YOUR farming business, but I'll bet you take some of OUR money, in terms of subsidies under the CAP?
According to the BBC, the UK gained 9% of the CAP funding (2006 figures), or a startling £4.3 billion from taxpayers like me, and the other riders, dog walkers etc.
The same source also states that 'Cereals, beef/veal and dairy products still account for much of the CAP funding'.
If you are taking any subsidy, in my opinion, the least you can do in return is allow those people (who help your farm to remain viable) to have sensible access.
S
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know the code says anything developed for recreation of the land owner is excluded....but you're not really going to tell me that people won't have a crafty jump over privately built XC jumps in a field they have free access to ride through? Some will respect it....others will absolutely disregard the rules for their own personal hooray henry moment.

As I said earlier in the thread, if we had headlands around crops that people wanted to hack around, or canter if the going was good, then I would have no objection. I just don't see how we can be expected to farm a big dairy outfit properly and safely if we could see dozens of horses flying through all areas of the fields at any moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in that case they wouldn't be accessing the land responsibly and complying with the terms of the code....
wink.gif

The code permits responsible access - note the word responsible. Making free with someones jumps and flying through fields of stock would not be deemed responsible.
It's called everyone in the countryside getting along and respecting each other rights - to make a living, for recreation, for sport. By and large, with good will on all sides, it works pretty well - no bitterness required
grin.gif

A
 
We do have people who ride in our stubble field Shils. They don't ask permission, but they decide to ride. We don't go up there armed with a shotgun (a la stereotypical farmer stance) and tell them to be off our land. We tend to watch...just to make sure they stay in the stubble fields and don't open gateways, but that's it.

My gripe is with the possibility that this open access will move here and we'll have all and sundry galloping through fields of livestock. I wanted to know how we could possibly indemnify ourselves against that.

For the record, re subsidies, we didn't used to get anything until the introduction of the Single Farm Payment a few years ago (I forget how long....but it's got to be only 3/4 years max). Most subsidies were there for arable farmers to get them to grow specific crops. These subsidies aren't all they are cracked up to be. We used to have fallen stock taken away on a government scheme free of charge.....now we have to pay. It's a classic case of in one hand and out of the other.

We contribute more than enough back to the economy too. I don't expect anyone who claims Tax Credits or the like to owe me a debt of gratitude because our taxes have helped ease their hardships.

It's not a selfish point of "My land, keep off" at all. You don't seem to be getting the legal rammifications I'm concerned about.

Child's pony steps in rabbit hole whilst they are cantering across your field (common trespass). Child's parents then sue us for the rabbit hole causing the injury to their cherub's pony. Our insurers settle the case, as we're deemed liable.

How does one then manage to cover themselves for the free access to ride over farm land....not just from a personal injury point of view, but from the fear of letting livestock out etc etc.

If we could rewind back to the days of "at your own risk" you would find many, many farmers would just smile and let you past .... so long as you were away from livestock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top