those in the know about laminitus...

0ldmare

0ldmare

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 September 2004
Messages
7,423
Location
Kent
Visit site
Old mare developed, for the very first time, a mild level level of laminitus (on the day we were going to set up the trade stand at Burghley...her timing is perfect, as always :) )

Anyway, the vet was quite surprised, old mare is slightly tubby but not fat, isn't really the typical type to get laminitus (3/4 TB, 1/4 exmoor - looks TB) and wasn't on lush grazing. Vet put her on Danillon and acp and old mare has been falsely imprisioned against her will (her words) in the school ever since ie about 9 days.

The vet thought she would probably recover pretty quickly as it had been caught early etc, but when I cut out the danillon for 24 hours and fetched her out today she still not good. She's pretty sound in the school but it all goes down hill as soon as she's on hard ground.

My question is, how long would you expect it to take for her to go sound after a mild bout? Also are there other possible causes? Farrier found no telltale red line in the hoof. She's 19 and has ringbone if that's in any way relevent

NB I'm going to call the vet for chat, but just gently worrying about it :( Any info/views appreciated :)
 
mine had a mild bout of lami earlier this year, altho hers was due to obesity (hangs head in shame). She spent 3wks in the arena, before being gradually reintroduced to grass with a muzzle. But all in all it took her about 4-5wks to stop being footy on stony, hard ground. She had to be put back on monitored grazing as she had started to jump out of the arena & would rear in her stable if left alone!
If she gets her muzzle off now she will get footy again when she hits the stones, altho just slightly short not lame, & my tb does the same anyway!
ETA she no longer has lami, but has definately become more aware of her feet now
 
She was x-rayed last year for the ringbone but not for the laminitus. Because it was quite mild the vet was expecting her to be sound again in a few days if taken off the grass.
 
Could be a number of causes, Laminitis can be caused by sugar intolerance, metabolic conditions, trauma or concussion.

You mention the mare has ringbone, is she shod in accordance with treatment for this?

Mild laminitis, in a horse is likely to be sound within the week, asl ong as they are fed on hay and water and the NSAIDs are maintained.. Unsure about the ACP? was this just given to keep her calm?

Has she got any signs of cushings disease? (curly coat, excessive hoof/hair growth?)

My next step in your case would be to get both the vet and the farrier to your yard at the same time and discuss a course of action. Xrays may be necessary.

With reguards to the red marks within the hoof, these would not be visable for a few weeks. The red mark is caused by the stretching of the laminae, caused by the swelling. The red mark you see is the dead laminae as it grows down, the could is pigmentation caused by bruising.

Hope this helps a little. Pictures of her feet/ legs might also be helpful.

Lou x
 
cut some nettles just from field good handful and boil like soup with loads of garlic in it loads. once cooked put in blender then seive and cool. when left with juice put into syringe (ex large syringe) bout 5 or 6 in her same as you would worm a horse. store rest in a old bottle (coke bottle) or anything keep in fridge till need. give this night and morning give her as much as she will take you can give her anything with this as is all natural. this is my own remedy and it is amazing for circulation and heat in hoof. do this for few days or week. but should see a difference with heat in hoof after 1st day .
worked on my horses and my uncles and friends. try it hope it works for you.
 
Are you sure it's laminitis and not a bruised sole or an abbess?

Laminitis normally requires weeks/months of box rest. The horse should be on bute for the pain. No walking at all, not even taken out to muck out. Bedding should be deep and soft.
No grass or sugary items including mints, apples and carrots.
Hay should be soaked for at least 12hrs to reduce the proteins.
Horse may require sedilin to keep them calm and still in the stable.
Has your vet suggested x-rays? These will show if the Pedal bone has rotated. One should be taken now and the regularly.
Contact your farrier to see if shoes can be removed, Pads may be required to help support/cushion the feet and then heartbars or even plastic shoes can be fitted.
Your horse should be sound for a week after coming off bute before you can think about turning out.

I lost my horse to Lami last year even after doing the above for 4 months.

Maybe it's just the way I'm reading your post but your vet doesn't seem to be treating your horse as an emergency which Laminitis is. That is why i asked are you sure it's laminitis?
 
Hmm that's interesting that it took so long loz9. She's really sound in the school even off danillon (think exocet missile if she sees me plus food :D )

I'm worried she's going to do something silly like yours, she's getting VERY frustrated :(
 
TBs do get laminitis. There was a study done of racehorses which found that poor performers often had underlying undiagnosed LGL. While the study may have some bias, having been sponsored by a company with a product to sell - it is still evidence that the general belief that TB's are less likely to get lami is flawed. www.founderguard.uk.com/documents/lowgrade_laminitis_DL.doc

Depending on where you are, most of the UK is now starting the 'autumn flush' that on it's own is enough to cause lami.

Older horses can develop lami for the first time much to owners surprise. This maybe because of changes to their metabolism or because their exercise levels are reduced or both.
 
Last edited:
I'd be booking xrays to check for rotation, no other way to see what's going on in there. 9 days certainly isn't enough to be fully sound from lami tbh, once the laminae are damaged, that's it. New hoof has to grow, it doesn't 'repair' the dead tissue. I'd be looking at stabling for at least 2 weeks solid on painkillers, xraying, then another 2 weeks probably stabled without painkillers accordingly and then xrays again to see any changes and re-assess condition and vets decision on what to do from there.
 
SC, the vet was sure it was. The school surface is actually very cushioning and supportive and she is 100% sound in there (honestly, not lame at all). She box walks and weaves if she's stabled so lesser of 2 evils!

She had frog supports for the first few days. She is unshod. I have to say I agree with the vet, it certainly looks like laminitus. Typical (but slight) rocking back onto her hocks if you turned her. That horrible pottery walk and pulse raised.

Of course it could be something else, but I doubt it.

She's on last years hay and is usually quite difficult to keep condition on (blooming horses, remind me why do we have them?!)
 
elks was only on bute for about 5days before she came sound in the arena. She was even beginning to trot on her own & have a bit of fun. But when she left the arena she was very sore, but it is quite rubbly/big bits of limestone as we are in the middle of yard renovation, & like i say my tb is like this every time she walks on it & she def doesnt have lami. & i used to have to run with her haynets to get them spread out around the arena, cue me being chased down by a charging, half-starve cob! lol!
There is slight controversy as to whether a horse should be kept still or mobile when they have lami, i went with the mobile option & it worked. It was the best option for elks & luckily they are kept at home so i went to hay her 3-4x a day with small amounts, double haylage netted, soaked hay, & spread them out in the far corners of the arena. She had company on the other side of the fence & if she was super creative could reach a couple of mouthfuls of grass. It got to the stage where she needed to be in the field as she was going to do more damage by jumping out over 4ft fencing & the arena is raised up by 1ft, so was getting quite a bit of concussion on already sore feet. Not ideal, but shes no longer has lami, has lost some weight, it out 24/7, muzzled for 12hrs/24, back in work & playing with the yearlings :)
ps i didnt have x-rays done of elke, diagnosis was based on her being overweight, foot sore & having puffy eyes! She didnt have raised pulses or hot feet at all.
 
You were extremely lucky with that Loz.

For me personally, I would never ever be, nor ever suggest, moving any horse with lami,ever.
Course that was after HAVING to move all 18.3h of Tommy from his field to the yard. Which needed 4 nerve blocks, 6 adults and 40minutes to move one horse 100metres max. And the only thing keeping his pedalbones in his feet were his imprint shoes and the fact he'd spend 3/4 of the day lying down.

I hope your mare recovers well. Not all are so lucky x
 
Thanks charm for the recipe! I think old mare would be v v happy to be try anything remotely edible! The school is at the end of the garden and she watches the house like a hawk - walk past the window, cough near the door and she shrieks in indignation at being imprisioned :D

She has really good conformation....except for the lower limbs. Long sloping fetlocks and a tendency to get long toe, down at the heel if not trimmed to perfection. Hence I guess her getting ringbone. She's unshod/retired.

She is hairy, but she does grow a heck of a coat (the 1/4 exmoor part sees to that). I did wonder about cushings. She hasn't got a curly coat, but never got a very good summer coat this year.

Yes I thin an x-ray might be a good plan. Its mostly 1 foot and its the one that had the worst ringbone so it might be very useful to see what's going on.
 
Binky I remember the awful time you had with your horse. Mine is nothing like as bad and she would box walk and weave in the box whereas she doesn't move much at all in the school (unless she sees or hears me!)
 
Binky01 said:
You were extremely lucky with that Loz.
Click to expand...

Wouldnt have said extremely lucky, i was following veterinary & farriery advice, & had recently finished uni where i was lectured by a lady who has a Phd in lami & still undertakes research, so i was upto date with current research. Like i say there is controversy over the best treatment for very mild lami, obviously sever lami is very different subject, & clearly your boys was a sever case.
I was lucky in that i caught my mares very early, as i read the signs, which were made clearer by the fact she was barefoot. She had no corrective shoeing, she was trimmed on a more regular occurance, but that was it. Box rest would have been counter productive, which is better for the feet; gentle ambling around a soft arena or repeated rearing in a box? The bigger picture needs to be viewed before deciding on a course of action. Throughout the time my mares welfare wasnt compromised, if her lami had worsened then a different course of action may have been taken, but it didnt so I stand by what I did for my horse & her circumstances, & would hesitate to do it for her again. Im am just giving my personal experience specifically for my horse on the subject which is what the OP was after. I am not saying its the right course of action for all horses, but we can all learn from other peoples experinces as well as our own.
Sorry if this comes across a bit harsh, Im tired & have a stonking cold :( its not meant to be mean, honest :D
 
At 19 I'd suspect Cushing's - enlargement of the pituitary causes the release of hormones into the bloodstream and these alter the metabolism and one of the resulting effects of this is often laminitis.

I really get cross about people who talk about a 'touch' of laminitis, and that their horses haven't got it now.

Once a laminitic, always a laminitic. You need to be on lockdown as regards management and constant alert for this problem either suddenly flaring up or deteriorating rapidly. You really do need to get reading the info available, and consider the triggers with a far more open mind than thinking it's only the fat natives on too much rich grass who are at most risk. Laminitis is indiscriminate and is not the preserve of overfed/overweight ponies.

Keep them off the stones, on a deep shavings bed, minimum sugar regime and NSAIDS. Learn how to take a digital pulse and then monitor daily. LGL (low grade laminitis) is an early warning. Ignore it at your peril - and even more so, the danger to your horse.
 
Water off a ducks back to me lol no worries! Been judging all day,sunburnt and too knackered to be offended by anything :p

Yours got better that's the main thing. :)
 
Loz yours and mine sound rather similar, mine would take much more 'exercise' in the stable than she does mooching around the school (mostly stands sulking tbh)

I'm going to ring the vet tomorrow I think. She's insured and (amazingly) laminitus isn't one of her exclusions (yet :) )
 
0ldmare said:
Thanks charm for the recipe! I think old mare would be v v happy to be try anything remotely edible! The school is at the end of the garden and she watches the house like a hawk - walk past the window, cough near the door and she shrieks in indignation at being imprisioned :D

She has really good conformation....except for the lower limbs. Long sloping fetlocks and a tendency to get long toe, down at the heel if not trimmed to perfection. Hence I guess her getting ringbone. She's unshod/retired.

She is hairy, but she does grow a heck of a coat (the 1/4 exmoor part sees to that). I did wonder about cushings. She hasn't got a curly coat, but never got a very good summer coat this year.

Yes I thin an x-ray might be a good plan. Its mostly 1 foot and its the one that had the worst ringbone so it might be very useful to see what's going on.
Click to expand...

Now screaming Cushing's at me! Get her on Pergolide - vet should allow this without tests and based on suspicion only, as if it's not Cushing's no harm will be done.
 
brighteyes said:
At 19 I'd suspect Cushing's - enlargement of the pituitary causes the release of hormones into the bloodstream and these alter the metabolism and one of the resulting effects of this is often laminitis.

I really get cross about people who talk about a 'touch' of laminitis, and that their horses haven't got it now.

Once a laminitic, always a laminitic. You need to be on lockdown as regards management and constant alert for this problem either suddenly flaring up or deteriorating rapidly. You really do need to get reading the info available, and consider the triggers with a far more open mind than thinking it's only the fat natives on too much rich grass who are at most risk. Laminitis is indiscriminate and is not the preserve of overfed/overweight ponies.

Keep them off the stones, on a deep shavings bed, minimum sugar regime and NSAIDS. Learn how to take a digital pulse and then monitor daily. LGL (low grade laminitis) is an early warning. Ignore it at your peril - and even more so, the danger to your horse.
Click to expand...

Brighteyes, I don't treat it lightly at all. My show hack (anglo arab) went down with years ago. And big time at that. 3 months later she was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid and had to have 27 thyroid tablets a day to stay sound.

Only reason why I'm referring to this horse as 'mild' is that if you saw her in the school you would probably say she's sound. Doesn't alter the fact that she has most probably got laminitus and will alway now be susceptable.
I think you could have a pont re cushings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top