Those of you who bute to ride

I've tried Devils Claw,buteless, Boswellia and a whole manner of other shop bought remedies and they all worked short term. The buteless kept him really sound for about 18 months.
I'm only using prescription stuff now as I seem to have exhausted the natural remedies out there!
 
My 20yr old WB mare was on one bute a day to keep her sound with arthritis, two summers ago she was struggling even in the field, so she was on her last summer, all the vet could suggest was upping her bute to five a day for a week, then back to one a day, that didn't sit well with me, then Tumeric was mentioned on H&H, the result was amazing, having nothing to lose, she had Tumeric added to her feed with etc's, two years later she is still happy in light work, loves getting out and about and looks fantastic, thinks nothing of chasing the baby round the field.
There are workable alternatives to bute
 
cptrayes said:
How many did he post mortem? There is a thread on the same topic somewhere in the archives from a vet saying that in all the post mortems she had done on horses with even small doses of Bute over more than a short time, there was not one which had no liver damage.
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I didn't ask that question. He's my vet and I trust him, he's qualified and I'm not. I'm comfortable that old age will probably get my horses long before any liver damage from any bute they get to help them have a comfortable retirement.
 
My horse was ridden for four years on bute, maybe according to some I am an evil owner, I should have left him to rot in a field or even better had him shot. Instead he had a bit of pain relief and was fine. Now it no longer covers all his pain he is retired.

OP, I will say keeping your horse moving is the best thing you can do. Think of the. Danilon as ibroprofin, once fed it takes a while to get in to the system, however if fed regularly the cover should be pretty consistent. My horse started on one every other day, however if I was riding on a non medication day I would tend to feed one about half an hour before riding just to keep him comfortable. My vet said it was more effective to feed an extra one on the day or the evening before, then to give two together.
As well as the medication there is lots you can do to make it easier for your horse. Shoeing is important, barefoot can help, or natural balance shoes. Not too much trotting on the road, being careful on hard ground. Leading them down steep hills. Leading them a short distance before mounting to warm up joints. Acupuncture and massage help. Make sure your saddle fits spot on....it will make a HUGE difference.

Please ignore the negative views of others, they are allowed their view , they are allowed to choose for their horses, as are you.

I took up dressage with my horse, we had fun, his progress was monitored by a vet at least three times a year, his welfare was at the forefront of my mind the whole time. We did well, he was happy then, he is happy now.
 
I have no issue with giving arthritic horses a bit of bute to keep them comfortable for light work - I'll happily give Spike a bute sometimes so that he can do a bit of quiet hacking without his slightly dodgy front feet troubling him. I wouldn't bute Alf, as his issues are mostly ligament, and I'd rather not risk him doing further damage - I want to know exactly how sound he is all the time!
 
In my humble opinion, buting to enable YOU to ride, if that is YOUR desire, is VERY, VERY different to buting to allow some hacking in order to reduce boredome & increase the horses's quality of life. I take pain relief for my shoulder & elbow. I'd be miserable without it & unable to even make a cup of tea.
 
Camilla's Aunty Em said:
In my humble opinion, buting to enable YOU to ride, if that is YOUR desire, is VERY, VERY different to buting to allow some hacking in order to reduce boredome & increase the horses's quality of life. I take pain relief for my shoulder & elbow. I'd be miserable without it & unable to even make a cup of tea.
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It's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it really? To keep a horse with arthritis ticking over it is important that they remain mobile and maintain a healthy weight through exercise. Anything thing I did with MY horse was done in consultation with my vet. Funnily I keep my horse so that I can ride, I have a dog as a pet to take walks on a lead, if I want something decorative in the paddock I could get a sculpture, it would be cheaper. I am unashamed that I allowed my horse to work with pain killers. WE had fun, he is a working animal, in my opinion, humble or otherwise it is better to extend his life then kill him off because of a bit of pain that is controllable, what a bloody waste of an animal that you are meant to LOVE! Now that pain is more then can be controlled for riding he is retired. He has paid for his keep through his work, until the time he is in more pain then is acceptable.
With so many capitals it hardly comes across as a "humble" opinion.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
It's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it really? To keep a horse with arthritis ticking over it is important that they remain mobile and maintain a healthy weight through exercise. Anything thing I did with MY horse was done in consultation with my vet. Funnily I keep my horse so that I can ride, I have a dog as a pet to take walks on a lead, if I want something decorative in the paddock I could get a sculpture, it would be cheaper. I am unashamed that I allowed my horse to work with pain killers. WE had fun, he is a working animal, in my opinion, humble or otherwise it is better to extend his life then kill him off because of a bit of pain that is controllable, what a bloody waste of an animal that you are meant to LOVE! Now that pain is more then can be controlled for riding he is retired. He has paid for his keep through his work, until the time he is in more pain then is acceptable.
With so many capitals it hardly comes across as a "humble" opinion.
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Didn't mean to shout. Sorry. :s
 
I always used to say I'd never ride a horse on bute... until I had a young arthritic horse who after other methods failed needed bute to stay sound. He was a lot less stiff in work and fit than out of it (even with 24/7 turnout) and would have been getting the bute anyway. Gave me 6 more years of having fun with him before things progressed past the stage of bute being able to help. He let me know when he was stiff and when he was feeling well and I'm of the opinion he had far more well days when he was able to be kept in regular, consistent work.
 
I did not understand fully how exercise and pain relief where vital managing arthritis until I had it myself .
If I ever had any qualms about the long term use of pain relief I well over that now .
 
Silmarillion said:
I have plantar fasciitis in both feet and this can be quite painful sometimes... I'm not about to give up walking though and will happily take some painkillers to allow me to enjoy my life. Again, I am conscious of limiting how much I do and making sure I'm aware if it gets even slightly worse that I stop and put my feet up.
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Ouch, I have this too. Isn't it painful?? I am on 8 x co-codamol, 6 x gabapentin and 6 x ibuprofen and I am still in pain! I know where you are coming from, this is why I never felt bad about giving my horse bute when he needed it- I couldn't do anything without it. It was on vets advice and did the job. He was happy and healthy and loving his work including competition.

Like I say now he's on buteless - not so effective which is a shame but still.

I have started skating and bizarrely the plantar fascitis is a lot better since I have been doing this.
 
I haven't had chance to read through the whole thread, and i'm sorry if i'm repeating what may have already been said, but I just wanted to suggest that liver problems aren't the only potential problem when it comes to feeding bute long term - I nearly lost my mare to colonic ulcers caused by bute (1 a day to help an injury, for about 2 months before problems started) and I know more than one other horse who have had colitis problems, both with bute and danilon in short and long term cases. Personally I would never bute to ride, but that is just my opinion and I can understand that if other supplements and management don't work, why some may choose to use bute in the cases of arthritis.
 
applecart14 said:
Never felt bad about giving my horse bute when he needed it- I couldn't do anything without it. It was on vets advice and did the job. He was happy and healthy and loving his work including competition.

Like I say now he's on buteless - not so effective which is a shame but still.

.
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You were giving your horse bute to do competitions??!!!
 
I think an older horse, with arthritic issues especially those potentially unlikely to be around long enough for any long term problems caused by bute etc to be a major problem - or if they do that you give them a better quality of life then PTS than they would have if you left them unmedicated- I would have no issues buteing and riding (hacking at least and perhaps some gentle bending/flexibility work).

Good muscle tone can do a lot to support joints. I think every case needs to be taken on the specific situation though.
 
I have a 37 year old TBx ID who is still in medium to light work, I say medium as while is only ridden 2/3 times a week we do quite fast rides. He was diagnosed with navicular 12 years ago and has arthritis changes in hips and hocks. He struggles to maintain weight a little as was always been one that needed grass however he now gets foot sore on grass so I have to restrict him but does well on ablib hay, 16+, cheap chaff and beet.
He would never ever pass a soundness test! He is pottery on corners!
He however loves his work and fence walks the entire time the others are out without him, he is full of energy and jogs and tries to canter the minute his feet touch grass.
I have absolutely no issues riding him on danilon as he obviously likes his work. You know your horse best at the end of the day so do what you feel is right for him and you.
As a side note have you feed Turmeric? I started my lad on 2 tablespoons of turmeric, 1 teaspoon of pepper and 300g micronized linseed a day all mixed together in his feed and since he's been on that I haven't need danilon. Apparently its a combination of curcumin from turmeric, oil from linseed and pepper and makes a fab painkiller/anti inflammatory. Good luck with your boy xx
 
I've used Devils Claw in the past, and never really rated it, but started using Navilam O last week (Devils Claw and Hawthorn), and so far, Spike looks very sound on it. He only presents lame after he's galloped round the field like a complete idiot - which he did yesterday, and much to my surprise, he pulled himself up, and trotted off without his usual 5/6 hobbly strides. Quite impressed...
 
Those who say that horses can't WANT to be ridden if they're lame should come visit my hackneyx. He had an RTA as a 4yo, which left his shoulder open to the bone for months, and couldn't straighten the leg for nearly a year. He 'volunteers' for every ride (we do not treat to catch, or feed in, so this is purely on expectation of work), and leads a ride at a blistering pace given half a chance - this despite a legacy rolling motion to his stride, and often showing slightly lame in trot on hard ground.

It's a dilemma, but we take him out with a l/w rider every couple of weeks because he enjoys it. If I were going to drug him to ride, I think I'd choose a sedative, rather than a pain killer - he's too enthusiastic for his own good.
 
I know I will get shot down in flames, but to me, using bute, or danilon, is the same as using a paracetemol or aspirin for ourselves - I suffer from migraine, so use painkillers - no difference in my view. My horse has been diagnosed with the onset of arthritis and was in agony the day it flared up. He was given some very strong pain killing injections and put on bute for a fortnight, during which time I was told by the vet to get on and see how he coped being ridden. He was fine. He has since gone through a month of treatment which is hocks, neck and one knee being medicated with steroids and hylauronic acid, weekly cartrogen injections and has also had a tildrin drip. He is now on Synequin permanently and he is back to his old self. My vet has left me with a copious supply of danilon to use when needed, advised me that hes better living out and said I can ride again in about a week or so.

He loves his hacking and I have to keep him active now, so if I have to stick the odd sachet of bute into his feed, then so be it. He is 21, and we have of course discussed the liver damage issue with me vet, but the overall benefits to him outweighed this tiny risk, and to be fair at his age, well I know I dont have him forever.

He does get a couple of sachets before he sees the farrier though, just to make sure he is comfortable. I think its a matter of knowing your horse and of course being sensible and sensitive with it. There is no way I would bute my horse up so that I could ride, when he is obviously in pain. Currently he is not on any drugs, just the synequin, and is like a five year old again. I know this will change over the winter, and we just have to suck it and see.

However, as I said above, I see no reason why a horse should not be given a helping hand with pain relief, just like we are. There is no way I would suffer a migraine without some form of pain relief, it might knock me out for a few hours, but at least I can function and even go into work again.
 
This week I have taken ibuprofen before I ride every day because I'm stiff and sore from too much physical activity and get worse during the day when I sit at my desk. I also have permanently sore ankles and occasional plantar fasciitis. I take it because I move better when I am more comfortable.
I have no problem with horses being ridden on bute for the same reasons, so long as there has been a proper diagnosis of what the problem is.
 
moleskinsmum said:
This week I have taken ibuprofen before I ride every day because I'm stiff and sore from too much physical activity and get worse during the day when I sit at my desk. I also have permanently sore ankles and occasional plantar fasciitis. I take it because I move better when I am more comfortable.
I have no problem with horses being ridden on bute for the same reasons, so long as there has been a proper diagnosis of what the problem is.
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Horses don't have the option of saying 'it's too much today'. How do you know that you are giving enough and it isn't just taking the edge off and the horse is still in pain.

I'm bowing out of this thread now as frankly, it sickens me
 
Fides said:
Horses don't have the option of saying 'it's too much today'. How do you know that you are giving enough and it isn't just taking the edge off and the horse is still in pain.

I'm bowing out of this thread now as frankly, it sickens me
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How do you know you're not just taking the edge off and the horse is still in pain? Lameness, levelness, desire to go forward, behaviour . . .
 
Fides said:
Horses don't have the option of saying 'it's too much today'. How do you know that you are giving enough and it isn't just taking the edge off and the horse is still in pain.

I'm bowing out of this thread now as frankly, it sickens me
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Erm, if the horse is still in pain, it will be sore, resistant and lame.... :confused3:?? Many of us with oldies take each day as it comes, allowing the horse to indicate what it is comfortable to do, and going along with that. No one on here is advocating hammering a buted up knackered horse, are they?
 
jemima*askin said:
How do you know you're not just taking the edge off and the horse is still in pain? Lameness, levelness, desire to go forward, behaviour . . .
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Exactly. I would not ride a horse that was lame, unlevel, unwilling, behaving out of character.

For what it's worth, (and I doubt that will be much in some cases), I am currently walking my biggest dog on the lead for ten minutes four times a day as part of his rehab for a cruciate ligament repair. There is no doubt that he is a bit sore and he is very lame but this has been prescribed by the vet as much needed rehab to help him rebuild the muscle in his leg. He is a recent rescue and we suspect the ligament has been broken for some years. The vet told me he was likely to be sore at first (we are now a fortnight after the op) but to persist and, if necessary, give him a tramadol to make him more comfortable. She believes the exercise, albeit causing some pain, is very important for his future wellbeing. Next week we start stairs and the week after, "dancing". Then we reassess.

A friend of mine has been given similar advice by her vet about her horse which is recuperating from lameness - ie, keep him exercised, even though limited, bute if necessary and reassess in three weeks. Because she is away this week, I am exercising him. Very short hacks and long reining in the field.

The dog hasn't had any tramadol and the horse hasn't had any bute but if I feel that either of them need it to enable them to follow their rehab programmes, they will get it.
 
Yes. Sometimes they need excercise to sort the issue, as was said earlier, stronger muscles support joints better. Sometimes that excercise hurts a bit.
Also poor bored, stiff horse vs light pain relief & seeing a bit of the world & getting a stretch.............
 
Fides said:
Horses don't have the option of saying 'it's too much today'

I'm bowing out of this thread now as frankly, it sickens me
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Frankly, they do, most owners know their horses well enough to listen to them and take their care and management of them very seriously and as I said before each case is individual. If yours starts to become stiff behind in it's early twenties would you seriously just retire it to the field as opposed to keeping it moving doing some light hacking out with a small amount of bute to enable that?

What with that and your views on cushingoid horses I rather hope I am not an older horse in your care any time soon.
 
I know my horses well enough to know if something is hurting them. I would most certainly bute Zara if it meant she could carry on working as she loves her work. She is recovering from a tendon sheath injury at the moment and hasn't been worked since March and is so miserable. Back in 2010 she had six months off due to injury and was totally miserable then too. She hates being a field ornament and if she ever needs bute to be ridden because of arthritis then I will do so.

As far as cushings is concerned, my other horse Lana has had it since the age of 6 years old and for the last 2 years has been on Prascend. I'd like to think that I will be able to tell when things become too much for her.
 
Oh Fides....I know you said you were leaving this thread, but in case you have another look.......

If you're lucky enough to have owned a beloved old horse for some time, there are so many ways they can tell you when they're not happy. Their body language and whole demeanour will let you know they don't fancy a ride that day. You may only travel a short distance with them, and you'll know that this day should be a rest day. Other days you can just feel they're up for it.
Instinct, empathy and compassion are equally as important in caring for elderly animals as concrete veterinary knowledge.

I don't think anyone on here would continue to ride an animal that was truly past its 'use by' date, but for a while, in the life of an elderly horse, there is a balance to struck.
 
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Camilla's Aunty Em said:
In my humble opinion, buting to enable YOU to ride, if that is YOUR desire, is VERY, VERY different to buting to allow some hacking in order to reduce boredome & increase the horses's quality of life. I take pain relief for my shoulder & elbow. I'd be miserable without it & unable to even make a cup of tea.
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I couldn't agree more with this.

Personally I'm in the 'if it needs bute, it's lame and shouldn't be ridden' camp and I would find it very hard to justify doing anything else unless it was under vet instructions and only then for the minimum time needed. I certainly wouldn't bute anything up so it can be comfortable in a field in retirement, it would be gone because it has no quality of life but then I'm used to horses that have to work for their living and are not someone's pet so probably my thoughts don't tally with most on here.
 
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