Those of you who train using food treats

Clodagh

Clodagh

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At what point do you stop using them and just train normally?
Do you start training all puppies with treats or only the more difficult ones?
Do you still use treats if you have an older dog with you?

Thank you.
 
I would be interested in responses to this with Henry being my first puppy. He is now 14 months. I used treats for everything initially and then phased them out for things like sit etc which he found really easy. Still use treats every time for recall and dont know if i will ever be able to phase these out and still occaissionally for wait, stay if its for a longer time or for a really good leave from something really really tempting.

Agility (which we started with a foundation course just before xmas, no jumping till older) is based on play so although have treats if needed usually reward is play with ball on a rope tuggy.
 
It depends on the dog.

My young one is 13 months old and he still gets food for every recall, food in every footstep of a track, food during heelwork. Most people I know with much older competition dogs still feed or train with a ball and I intend to to the same.
To not do so, especially with a young dog just coming into maturity and starting to push the boundaries and is finding out where his round spherical things are :p would be foolish for me, IMO.

I don't think dogs just decide one day that they are fully trained and never ever need any refreshers again. Not phasing out food is not a failure judging by the people who I know who are competing with very high/hard dogs, to a very high standard.

I like to incentivise things for a dog, it is mean to be fun, not always 'just because I say so'.
 
We rehomed ours so didn't have her from a puppy, she was about 14 months when we got her, NO recall at all so needed treats for this and as a reward for doing anything we asked, and we used them to teach her to look at our faces to get used to her name, we didn't change her name we knew where she'd come from but she didn't react to it being said, I think she'd blanked it out from the child that used to be in the house where she was previously owned.

She is 4 now, my OH always forgets to take treats out with him so rarely gets them off him, I always take them, I don't see the problem with carrying on using them tbh, if it encourages good recall etc

She loves her toys to play with in the house, but ignores them if we take anything out, ball, squeeky toy, does fetch about twice then runs past it sort of pointing saying there it is you get it lol
 
Can I just add that for us, food during training is not 'treats' - it is part of his daily ration of food, which is what I mean by incentive - he eats from my pockets and hands (obvs bones then get carried away) :p or a Kong, very rarely from a bowl.
 
I start puppies off using treats - it makes it fun and rewarding for the pup, which is how you want them to view learning!
Saying this though, I'd train any aged dog with treats for the same reason. The treats do get phased out , a common misconception about using food treats is that you have to have them on you forever.... you don't! When a dog fully understands something, there is no need to stuff treats down them constantly - that's when it becomes a bribe and you get snobby dogs :P

Although I do 'top up' sessions every now and then if a dog is becoming slack at something.
 
I start them off with a tiny treat, but as CC says, it is part of their daily ration, and lots of praise, and gradually over time, cut back on the treats, and just give praise.
However every now and then i go back to a treat or two, just to keep the guessing
 
It depends but usually for the first two years I go around with a bum bag full of little bits of food (which is part of their daily food ration). That way I can train easily and quickly no matter where I am and I can quickly reward any good behaviour that comes my way. After that I use food rewards for behaviours that are new or need re-inforcing, or I tell the dog 'treat' which means 'I owe you one and will give it to you soon'. I also reward in other ways, i.e. if you sit nicely I will let you off the lead.
 
when i treat i also use a target word ¬yessss¬ (as you would a clicker) i dont always have treats on me but always use the word in a very up-beat manner. so the treat is gradually being overtaken by the target word. works for us.
 
I very rarely go out without a bit of something in my pocket normally squeezy cheese if I have my gun dog bag with me I have chicken wings whole and cut up and sometimes some dry dog food as little treats the wings I count in daily allowence everything else I dont as they dont really have that much. My dogs "work " almost every walk with recalls, sits, heeling, waiting at styles, stops at pheasants, and the odd stay.
 
I used food rewards constantly especially out in public until he was about 12-14 months, to really establish good behaviour and recall.
I then gradually stopped giving them every time, so he lived in hope of a bit of chicken, not in expectation!
His rewards have moved on to a play with a favourite toy or lots of fuss, but I will take some food occasionally just to keep him 'topped up' :) This really helped when his recall disappeared a bit- as did the dog!
 
Cahill said:
when i treat i also use a target word ¬yessss¬ (as you would a clicker) i dont always have treats on me but always use the word in a very up-beat manner. so the treat is gradually being overtaken by the target word. works for us.
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This is what they teach us in my dog training classes although "yes" doesn't come to me as easily as the word "good" so I use that instead.

My dog though ('ve had her 2 odd mths), although greedy in the house and i'd say in general, she is not bothered when out on a walk. 95% of the time she's great and has good recall and is more obsessed with sticks/ a ball being thrown than food. Her recall is pretty good but there are odd occasions where she shoots off and becomes 'deaf' to any recall and I am considering training her to whistle commands instead! Going to buy a whistle this weekend me thinks!
 
I use 'goood' and 'O-kay' even though I was told not to use everyday words :o
(So when my trainer says these words the dog goes mad because he thinks he is getting food or a balll)
And 'free' which means ball or just running around like a loony.
 
Thats interesting, sorry I didn't reply before. I have never used treats, but my lurcher isn't interested in food and apart from that have only had collie types and labs so very trainable. I did try taking biscuits when I walked hound puppies but they just mugged you constantly, as did the labrador!
When our dogs do something good they get a big fuss made, if they are learning. Now I just expect them to behave well, which sounds really mean.
A friend has a lab puppy and he is fantastically trained, but all with treats. Hes fat as a little pig (although she does now use his food ration). If you don't have a treat he blanks you.
 
Sorry to add, I guess we also don't need our dogs to be instant really spot on trained levels. The lab does a bit of peg shooting but mainly walked up and the rest are just passengers.
 
I doubt I'll ever totally phase out food, but he doesn't often get it now. It's almost exclusively for recall, and occasional use in trickier situations - for example, we went to the post office today and it was packed, so he got a treat for being good in the queue. He was surrounded by people on all sides, some talking to him in exciting voices, old people with sticks, pushchairs etc, so I needed total focus. If it had been quieter I wouldn't have used food - also this was his first proper walk in a few days so another factor lowering his focus there too.
 
All of the dogs I train with apart from about one or two, are trained with food and balls. None are fat. They are not soft dogs by any stretch and most score very highly in competition where no food it allowed. It is foundation and shaping, if it works it works.
 
I have never used treats on my own dogs, My voice and the changing one of it is by far my best training tool.
I will use a treat for recall for rescues for about the first 2 times out off lead and i basicaly call name (use super squeaky voice) and then hoy some cheese down, I repeat his every few seconds and then outsource it, so probably a good 2 hours of a constant treat for recall maybe or if ball orientated wont use a treat at all, I will just chuck the ball up and allow dog to catch then present another ball to get my initial ball back, or a over excited praise "what a good puppeeeeeee".
I am not an avid treater and doubt I ever will be, I am to forgetful and think my handling and my gob serve better. I would prefer a ball for focus and when dealing with a difficult dog, say dog aggressive, I prefer reprimand/correction over treat initially, but have used both negative correction coupled with a vocal command "leave it" usually and a treat in the past but can usually outsource the treat pretty quickly and use vocals. I will work out a routine if I feel the treat option will work with the owners once I have demonatrated how best to tackle the issue and generally I will ask them to let the dog lick rather than eat the treat (usually a wiff of primula) and only give a full fat taste every once in a while (meanie):p.
 
Both my dogs were trained on treats, taught hand signals and then verbal. If they find it difficult the treats remain. Or I lesson them. My retriever however doesn't work for treats he is a toy lover, so that's how we play. I tend not to treat now they're older but they do get a toothbrush( denture rask) in the evening but they work for it.
 
ladyt25 said:
My dog though ('ve had her 2 odd mths), although greedy in the house and i'd say in general, she is not bothered when out on a walk. 95% of the time she's great and has good recall and is more obsessed with sticks/ a ball being thrown than food. Her recall is pretty good but there are odd occasions where she shoots off and becomes 'deaf' to any recall and I am considering training her to whistle commands instead! Going to buy a whistle this weekend me thinks!
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I have had the same problem but last week I started using Barking Heads Bad Hair Day which is 52% lamb (and it stinks) and every recall has been spot on, including one away from an on lead dog he was desperate to go and meet, I was also mugged by 4 other dogs in the space of an hour today because they could smell it in my pockets... he even 'checked in' with me automatically without me asking when he saw another dog coming!! Slight tangent, sorry, regarding OP I will continue to use food for recall indefinitely and probably for good behaviour around other dogs but with regards to commands like sit etc, I expect muscle memory to take over at some point so will phase the food out then.
 
I am using treats like mad just now for recall training. Three weeks in with my rescue collie. First off lead walks this weekend and it's all going well. I have toned down the treats for her other training but still give the odd one when she masters something new or it takes a while for her to work out what I am asking. The recall treats will continue for a good time to come but I expect when I feel relaxed about it I will start to do every second recall and then slowly phase it out. She always gets a fuss too which she loves so will continue with that forever ;)

nb: treats are actually a couple of handfuls of her daily food ration
 
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