those of you with bolshy horses- advice please?

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el_Snowflakes

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Hi all,

My horse is very sweet, however she is a bossy madam. Shes a big strong mare and when she wants something (like hay for instance) she will just drag you there, if there are other horses there she will barge them out the way also! :o if she decides shes 'not in the mood' to have her feet pivked out she will lean into me as soon as i lift her front feet before barging straight into me. Tonight she decided she wanted to into her stable (she was tied outside) and swung round so her back end crashed right into me and winded me :( :o. I get so snnoyed with this behaviour i end up shouting at her (which does nothing) and i have walloped her a few times this week as i just feel this behaviour is out of order.

I know some of you will be crying out 'she doesnt respect you!' at you pc screens, but funnily enough she is the most joined up horse i have ever seen! she will follow me in the school like she is attached to my hip - if i stop dead ao does she. If I pivot in a circle she will pivot around me. If i walf round her she will pirrouette in a circle....(you get the picture!)

please give me some advice. I dont want to be one of those folk constantly shouting at their horses, and i hate hitting her as she is so lovely. Also, with respect- im only seeking advice from other owners of bolshy beasts as in my opinion- unless you have to deal with one its very easy to say - dont smack, dont shout, etc etc....

thanks guys ;)
 
So, reading from the above - when loose & with you only in an enclosed area, she is docile & obedient. If with others, or 'attached' (to you or something) she has no respect?
Is this all the time - or when coming into season?
How long have you had her?
 
Hi - I recently watched part of a weekend Parelli clinic & was very impressed, seven bolshy horses all practically behaving like lambs by the end! One had been very 'in your face' to the point of actually treading on his owner, but by
Sunday lunchtime he would stand while she walked all round him, pulled his tail, then mounted : he even waited to be told to move off ! It sounds as though a clinic like this would do both of you the world of good.
Good luck !
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
So, reading from the above - when loose & with you only in an enclosed area, she is docile & obedient. If with others, or 'attached' (to you or something) she has no respect?
Is this all the time - or when coming into season?
How long have you had her?
Click to expand...

yes, she is actually unbelievably obedient when she is out loose in the school with me! When im leading her or if she wants to be somewhere else off she goes... :o she is always like this although worse when she is in season.

Also- forgot to add.....when im putting her saddle on she dances around sideways and paws the ground. When she goes sideways se almost knocks me over. She is 15 years old and i have owned her for a year and a half so she knows the score!
 
LFORLEATHER said:
Hi - I recently watched part of a weekend Parelli clinic & was very impressed, seven bolshy horses all practically behaving like lambs by the end! One had been very 'in your face' to the point of actually treading on his owner, but by
Sunday lunchtime he would stand while she walked all round him, pulled his tail, then mounted : he even waited to be told to move off ! It sounds as though a clinic like this would do both of you the world of good.
Good luck !
Click to expand...

thanks, I see your new on here. I understand alot of folk on this forum (including myself) are not fans of the parelli method as its a bit of a circus act. I have seen some of their methods and they are extrememy harsh. Not trying to speak for everyone here we are all entitled to our opinion ;)
 
I also had a lovely, bolshy mare. Fany, who is a draught horse and exceptionally strong, and knows it, simply had no manners, none what so ever when we got her.

She is joined up with my daughter, who is her owner. But she still used to try ( and succeed ) in pushing us out of the way to get out of the stable, pulling us back to the field etc. I believe there is a big difference between manners and join up, manners have to be taught and of course learnt. Fany needed to be taken back to the beginning and shown how to behave, carefully and repeatedly. It took a while and a lot of effort. Now we can leave the stable door open and she will stay until invited to move, she doesn't pull or plant and she is so trustworthy the YO sits her niece on her whilst cleaning the yard. I think tbh it is a matter of going back to basics and starting her again.


Good luck, it can be done. But it does take time, patience and persistence.
FDC
 
I think for my experience with bolshy horses it tends to be the way the handler thinks that is a problem in most cases. But nine times out of ten fighting this sort of horse will get you no where - they have seen it all before and know they are stronger than us - that's why they are bolshy!

You will not force half a ton of horse to do what you want it to.... however, once you begin to accept that, you realise there are other ways to deal with this sort of thing.
For each horse it will be very different but you could try startling her when she drags you or offering her something nicer like a carrot if she walks back to where you want her.

A year and a half is not a long time really.

Sometimes we have to accept that a horse has a very strong will and work with that.
It has taken 2 years with my sisters cob and if he doesn't want fly spray on he won't be forced into it! If on the other hand he gets to eat his food while fly cream is put on then all is well!

Good luck :)
 
Just because a horse follows you around does not mean that it respect at all.

When you are leading her make sure you have a chain across her nose and if she ties to go where you do not want to then give her a good jerk with it.

She knows she is stronger and more wilful than you. You have to prove to her that this is not so and correct the slightest misdemeanour firmly and fairly.
When she is in the stable make sure that she steps backwards when you enter to give you room. When you want to take her out the stable then you make sure she stands back and only moves out when you tell her.

As for her swinging into you and squashing you then I would have a hoof pick in my hand and when she got close I would have used the pointy end against her side so that she really felt it. She has no thought about squashing you and if she walks into something sharp then she is going to think twice about it. I would have used the pick until she was stooped with her backside right against the opposite wall and made her stand there until I told her she could move.

This is nothing but disrespect and ill manners and she needs correcting hard and fast for any misdemeanour. Shouting does not work nor does slapping with your hand. You need to keep calm and determined and be very consistent.
Manners can be taught in a few days of handling correctly.
 
To be honest, I have had my horse 16 years (since he was 4). He loves people but doesn't have any clue about 'personal space'! He used to come running when you called his name when he was young but he'd run straight down the hill and you'd have to get out the way as he didn't think about how he'd stop! He has always been a sod to lead - 99% of the time fine but sometimes he has this 'look' in his eye and he wants to have 'fun'! By thjis I mean he'll just b*gger off. Oh, he doesn't go far, i think he sees it as all a big game. He barges out his stable door (can't unbolt it and unclip a leadrope clip within seconds) and basically has zero respect for people's space!

However, he is a lovely horse in general, there is not once ounce of malice there at all AND once on board he is very obedient and very intelligent and loves doing work. I wouldn't say he gets away with his bolsy behaviour but it's part of his personality i guess. He's been told off numerous times, he KNOWS damn well when he's in trouble and if you get REALY mad he will behave himself (well for maybe 10 mins anyway).

I did get myself an eskadron chain headcollar to lead him in and that at least gives me control when leading - however, he knows if I have that when i go catch him and can then decide he won't let you put the headcollar on (swine he is). I deal with it as being his personality and just get on with it really. No horse is perfect. If he was a swine to ride too I maybe would think differently. You can't have everything i guess!
 
Choose your battles - always equip yourself properly, for example use a control headcollar to lead her, or her bridle so she can't barge or pull you around you around - and then be consistent. Being prepared and consistent will win the day.

Every time she takes a step you haven't asked for, make her go back - politely but firmly. Tie her up short every time you tack her up and when she dances stop the behaviour with a shout or a tap. Again be consistent and patient. You have all day. Make her stand quietly, put her back from whence she came and she'll soon get bored. Reward her when she stands without moving.

Kelly Mark's book as mentioned before is good, but really, getting the basics right, particularly using voice aids, and consistency, consistency, consistency should sort her out. I have a huge stroppy 5 year mare who isn't allowed to get away with anything, but I always ask nicely and fairly.
 
Like has already been said there can be a world of difference between a horse following you around and a horse respecting your personal space and having manners. I'd say when you are leading her that you need to be very alert and think ahead. Before you bring her in have a quick scan around the yard; if there are stables doors open then shut them and generally try and remove some of the temptations if you can, you'll make life much easier for yourself at this stage (eventually you shouldn't need to to this, although always a good idea to move obvious hazards away from where you want to be anyway!). If you know that you have to walk past a juicy patch of grass or the hay storage area then be prepared for her reaction. Don't wait until she is already dragging you where she wants to go. If she starts showing signs that she's thinking about dragging you somewhere then give her a tug on the leadrope to bring her attention back to where you'd like her to be going. You might have to do this several times for each tempting thing that you pass. Same goes for any undesirable behavior, sort it out at the first signs and be consistent in doing so. If she's mucking about in the stable then tie her up whilst you do what you're doing; gives her less chance to misbehave, makes it easier for you to correct her and move her back into place when she does and reinforces that standing still is what you want, why make the task any harder than it needs to be? I'd also recommend you do some general groundwork with her to get her to respond reliably to commands like "back" and "over" and get her moving out of your space when asked quickly and without fuss, there are a variety of different methods out there with ideas on how to do this from clicker training to various forms of so called "natural horsemanship" to so called more "traditional" methods or a mish-mash of whatever you fancy and there are a billion and one books out there with even more ideas for training exercises. One final point to add is that if I were you I would try to avoid getting into an out and out fight with her (hence the picking up on things at early stages) because yep she is stronger than you and she will win in a tug of war match so got to try and be slightly smarter than she is
 
We often get comments from visitors to our yard about how well mannered and polite our horses are. This is because they HAVE to be. 3/4 tonne of irish draught that doesn't respect us or our personal space is a menace to society, and a stallion with these traits would be branded with a very bad name in a short space of time, no matter how 'nice' it may be when it chooses.
We always reprimand unwanted or unacceptable behaviour in the same way that another horse would in that situation, quickly, sharply and without any follow-up. For instance, I will not tolerate horses lifting their heads and swinging them over the top of mine, it is rude, an invasion of space and potentially very painful. Any youngster that reaches a size where it might try this will get a smack on the side of the head as it goes to do this. They don't get praise for not doing something naughty, we carry on and pretend nothing has happened.
If I am leading something that is likely to try and drag me, then I will be in front of it's thoughts at all times and telling it no before it even thinks about it. Squashing me would get a serious poke or wallop on the side, in the same way that another horse would react if it was about to be squashed by its mate.
Good luck
Try thinking about how another horse would react if your horse behaved towards it as she does to you, and implement similar tactics.
 
I have a 10yo ID also who is very bolshy. He's a lovely chap, very affectionate, as soon as he sees me he comes strolling over (he's too lazy to move any quicker!). I took him on knowing he was bolshy a couple of years ago. The problem was his previous owner was scared of him and let him get away with murder! Many people who knew him when she had him have told me how he used to walk all over her. The problem is he's 17hh and twice as wide and he knows it!!! He's actually an IDxWBxTB although has an ID passport. Leading, as soon as you clip onto a headcollar, he rears, turns and tries to go! He's done it 3 times with me and somehow I'v kept hold of him, thinking he'll soon learn he can't go but in the end I gave up and he's now led in a chiffney as it was quite dangerous and it's better to be safe than sorry as realistically I know I can't solve the problem as I know him and he would keep trying and when I'm little me and he's 700kg I think it was pure fluke he hadn't tanked off! It's as if he tries, realises I'm not letting go and then gives up but all it takes is the one time for him to not give in! He can also be bolshy when I'm picking out his feet, in that he'll suddenly decide he's not picking his feet up and plants them firmly, leaning into me! I make him walk forward and back until I can grab his feathers and keep hold of his foot. Most of the time though I can pick them out, just seems to depend on his mood!! He's very dominant to my tb (who was actually cut as a 4yo) out in the field, rips his rugs, bites him (although my tb won't be separated from him!). He barges through electric fencing, no matter what the voltage and will even chew it up! He's hardcore!!!! On the plus side, he's a lovely horse, full of character and great fun, he just has his moments!! I'm considering getting out Richard Maxwell to help, although he's very expensive but it will be worth it.
 
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Agree with others about Kelly marks, monty and Richard maxwell. Perhaps in the mean time try leading her with a bridle and when taking haynets in etc, ensure she moves back and doesn't barge before u go in with it. Try leading in front and if she tries to get infront of u, wave ur hands about. Show her ur the leader!
 
Well done you sticking your neck out above the parapet and admitting you have issues.

I would reiterate the point on stable manners, making her back off the door, waiting for her food rather than mug you and the bucket. I think if you can get a few simple ground rules in the stable sorted out then you have a good basis to work on the outside issues.

Some useful tips -

a water pistol of some shape or form to quick sharp shock her if she doesnt respond to the voice command of "back"

Chain over her nose to lead but NEVER TIE up with chain over nose;

Have some quick release bungy thingies in the stable and cross tie her to tack up then she cant squash you with her mass.

Making a horse back when being bolshy in hand is a useful tool but make sure you have it sorted out in the stable first. Also work on getting her to respect your personal space out in the arena rather than joined at the hip too
 
What age is she and how long have you had her?

Is it possible that she's just lacking in some manners? It may not be about respect at all. If you were another horse, this behaviour probably wouldn't be a problem :) But you have to teach her that humans are smaller and more delicate.

I have cobs, and I've had a fair experience of bad manners. Try a sensitising technique. If you want her to move back/stop breenging, pinch her shoulder (just enough that it's uncomfortable) and give the verbal "back". The SPLIT SECOND she obeys, release the pinch. Same for picking up her feet. If she leans on you, there's no point in pushing back. Apply uncomfortable pressure until she stops, then release it.

As for dragging you around on the end of a lead rope, she has to know that that's really not on. I'd go back to basics with the lead reining. Again, apply pressure on the rope and immediately release it as soon as she goes to take a step, same with the halt. Practice this in the arena regularly.

There is obviously a need for the occasional smack too. And that may be just enough for her to realise you're serious. :D
 
I too have a very strong minded girl ..... if I turn her out with horses she is always the chief mare, which I suspect your horse would be too.

Lots of good advice above (remember what you allow you train) but I also suspect she is very bright (?). My advice would always be calm but persistent. Also challenge her mentally - I did a bit of clicker training with her which not only amused her but also taught me about timing which might be something to try.

And, lots of work!!! If she is in hard work she is much happier and doesn't seem to put so much energy into thinking how to avoid things she doesn't want to do!

Lastly though, I love her lots, if you can bond with a horse like that the rewards are immense, and she has taught me so much!
 
When I first got my mare she was bolshy on the ground with very few stable manners.

I use an Eskadron headcollar, when leading, her nose is not allowed past my shoulder. If she starts to creep forwards she gets a sharp pull and a 'NO'.

In the stable, she gets a sharp reprimand for anything unacceptable. I'm consistent, firm but fair. She knows exactly what's acceptable and what isn't.

She also didn't tie up when I first got her. She does now.

If I give her an inch, she'll take 10 miles. People may think I'm harsh with her, but she is actually happier now that she has a boss. Everyone on the yard treats her the same if they need to do anything with her.

She isn't a dominant mare in the herd though, just with humans if you give her half a chance.

Set the ground rules, be firm but fair, reprimand immediately and quickly. It'll take a while but it will pay off in the end.
 
my mare is extremely bolshy. i have an eskadron controller halter, they are great, stay loose when my mare is behaving but if she starts being rude the chain applys pressure, there are also three different ways to wear it so you can be as mild as you like and go up and down depending on there behaviour. i also lead with a whip and if my mare gets in my space she gets a tap, though carrying one is enough now. i do alot of groundwork with her just in her bridle, getting her to step back, stand away from me stand still. it is a very long process but the more consistent you are the better. i think firm but fair is the way forward, as agression gets you no where lol whos gonna win a half a tonne mare or little 5ft1 me hahaha
 
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