Those of you working self-employed... Particularly those who work on a livery yard...

[RubyFrench]

I am looking at a job as general yard person, which they have just told me would be on a self-employed basis.

It is 90p less per hour than I currently get at my job (which I am incredibly miserable at).

I know livery yard = hard work, outside, cold, wet etc.

But I was really wandering how the whole self employed thing works with holidays etc, if there were to be pay rises every year would it be there descision or would I have to request one?

Any info would be great!

 

[Batgirl]

If you are self employed it is up to you to negotiate your pay (though this is not based on horsey self employment mind). If you can afford the paycut, plus the insurance you will need against lost pay if you are out of work and you are going to be happier I would think about going. I would check regarding your holidays as this can vary from employer to employer (some employers will give paid holiday to self employed people and some won't, majority won't).

Hope that is vaguely helpful.

 

[crabbymare]

If you are self employed you can work at more than one place so you can reclaim things like the part of car costs and fuel that relates to getting to and from the yard and wherever else you work and if you need special protective clothing so you may pay less tax. if you are only working at one place the revenue may say that you are actually employed if they set the hours and say what days you have to be there etc. Worth running it past an accountant if you know one so you get a better idea of the actual money you will be getting. you may also save on travel if its closer than where you are now so look at everything before you decide

 

[RubyFrench]

Thanks guys. It would seem on paper not sensible to go- less pay per hour, less hours and 15 mins further away than current employment!

But if it means I would be happier then I am seriously tempted. Also it would mean I finish work at 2pm every day so could spend valuable time with my dog and horse (something I am sacrificing at the moment as have just taken on an additional hour at my job, and have varying work pattern meaning I cannot have a set routine for myself/animals which I don't like).

Also as I do finish at 2pm I figured if I struggled for money I could take a part time evening job if necessary.

 

[WestCoast]

No job protection at all, no sick or holiday pay, you'd need your own insurance and pay an accountant to do your tax unless you're very good with figures and quite likely the tax office would have an opinion if they set your hours and tell you what to do. Also not sure about the quality of an employer who wants you self employed.

Paula

 

[Angelbones]

Be very careful here, there is a very fine line between being self employed and being an employee - especially if you are to be working solely for one employer. You need to seek proper advice.

Personally I think the employer is pulling a fast one and trying to make their own life easier - and cheaper - by avoiding their legal obligation to pay tax and NI contributions. This can amount to tax fraud.

You will be responsible for all your tax, NI contributions, you won't have a contract of employment, you won't be paid holiday pay, you won't be paid if you are unable to work, you will have to register as a sole trader for the HMRC and may well get bogged down in paperwork. You will need to contracted to provide certain services over a certain period of time for a specified fee and be in business in your own right.

Go onto the HMRC website and find the Employment Status Indicator https://esi2calculator.hmrc.gov.uk/esi/app/index.html - take the test and it will tell you if you are technically self employed or employed. I just did it, based on my assumptions of your role, and the result was that you will be employed, not working as self employed. My understanding before this thread was that if self employed you cannot work for just one employee on a full time basis but I don't know why I think that although I'm sure the Revenue would take a dim view of it.

Tread carefully and seek some professional advice, maybe via the CAB. There is a lot of stuff re this via google.

 

[PucciNPoni]

No job protection at all, no sick or holiday pay, you'd need your own insurance and pay an accountant to do your tax unless you're very good with figures and quite likely the tax office would have an opinion if they set your hours and tell you what to do. Also not sure about the quality of an employer who wants you self employed.

Paula

I agree with everything other than the last sentence. It's very possible the "employer" doens't want to have to worry about PAYE, paid holidays, paid sick time etc. Being an employer is a bit of a headache to be perfectly honest...

 

[WestCoast]

I agree with everything other than the last sentence. It's very possible the "employer" doens't want to have to worry about PAYE, paid holidays, paid sick time etc. Being an employer is a bit of a headache to be perfectly honest...

Yes, but if they are only willing to do it by exploiting youngsters that don't understand tax and employment law, and by doing so out compete more reputable employers on price, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Paula

 

[PucciNPoni]

Yes, but if they are only willing to do it by exploiting youngsters that don't understand tax and employment law, and by doing so out compete more reputable employers on price, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Paula

True, but then they ought not to be employing people either.

Self employment is difficult true enough, but when done correctly certainly does afford the self employed person greater flexibility, more freedom etc. But yes, the self employed person MUST know exactly what they're getting in to, what their rights are, and their obligations.

 

[Kat]

Just to clarify, you DO NOT need an accountant to be self employed. Self assessment forms are straight forward and can be done by anyone who can read instructions carefully and is prepared to spend a bit of time on it.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Just to clarify, you DO NOT need an accountant to be self employed. Self assessment forms are straight forward and can be done by anyone who can read instructions carefully and is prepared to spend a bit of time on it.

I agree with this. When I was S/E I did it all online without an accountant. I have to say, when I was made redundant from my desk job I did S/E horse stuff for a year. I did enjoy it, but after doing everyone elses horses, mine became a chore. I am now back at a desk. Yes I have less time, but I do have more money and enjoy my horses more.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

What angelbones said.

If they really wanted to employ a freelance groom they'd have phoned one and engaged their services. Instead they have advertised a cash in hand job and are hoping to avoid legalities of being an employer by telling job applicants they are self employed. Basically they're taking the mickey. Still want to work for these lovely people?!