Those who event with cobs?

[cheekywelshie]

How do you do it? What type of cob do you have?

I have a chunky Welsh cob that has taken me a while to get fit - yet I still can't get him round our XC course and am despairing of ever entering a BE80T as I can never make the time on our local hunter trials. We ended up with 40 time penalties at the MK 3DE this year - the time was 5'40ish and I was nearing 7 minutes! (I think I lost heart after that as completely forgot what I was doing in the SJ and went the wrong way..so not a good day overall !)

I struggle to canter away from home and downhill and am so exhausted I end up trotting until we turn for home where he seems funnily enough get energy back and then I can breathe again because I'm not busy kicking/steering/keeping legs on to make sure he keeps gong and jumps (still not confident about any new jumps he hasn't done before -and this is at home!) When we have competed away from home he has napped towards the first fence - it wasn't a memorable experience - I can't get out very often as rely on others for transport.

Has anyone any tips - or do I just accept the fact that I may need a horse with a bit more speed/stamina to do BE at the training and maybe intro level? I am very slight - just under 8 stone and 5'5 tall.

Any advice from cob or former cob owners would be most appreciated! I do love my boy but it is hard work and I am wondering if I can keep working this hard as it will take years and lots of schooling (originally I got him for hacking but he does have a good pop on him so I have been told!)

 

[aidybex]

You look very similar to a girl who featured in Your Horse a little while ago - having a XC lesson and had the same stamina problems!! I would say that in your piccy he is probably carrying a little too much weight and you need to get out and canter canter canter. Find hills and go for it!! The only way to build stamina is to work towards it, don't just convince yourself because he's a cob he can't do it, if you've already convinced yourself this is the problem then you won't be open to finding the solution!! Good luck x

 

[shortstuff99]

Firstly well done for completing MKEC 3de! I think its a great event! lol. Your boy is also gorgeous! I evented my cob for at least 5 years I think? She was mainly a show jumper. She is a light/middle weight show cob. Personally I think fitness etc can depend on the type and attitude of the cob. My mare has I think a lot of TB in her. She is very excitable and I have never had problems making times at xc but this was due to some clever training/time management. She is also strangely not a good doer!

What I found is that she doesn't have the biggest stride so I had to make time up in other areas. I would always find the shortest route possible that I could use and would make sure I moved off quickly after the jumps. How easy is your cob to jump? Does he do it out of his stride? My mare never really needed setting up so I would let her cruise to the jumps and take them out of stride. This saves a lot of time.

I have never really had a problem getting her fit but I think that this was due to her temperament. You may just have to accept that he takes longer to get fit then for example a TB. BUT it is possible, my mare (who is more cobby then yours) Has managed to make the steeplechase time of 2 minutes at MKEC multiple times and the XC time at their class 2! So keep going it will happen when you get used to how he goes at get savvy at making the XC time. The problem with hills maybe a strength problem.

Here is a pic of what she looks like (at MKEC )

And one at jumpcross 'cos she's awesome! lol

 

[CambridgeParamour]

With my mare I did lots and lots of interval training and canter work for months before MK 3DE. I also had to figure out what to feed her- she ended up on comp mix and red cell- the red cell helped loads.

She came 4th at the 3DE (class 1) and jumped clear rounds discovery BSJA.

As you can see from the photo's, shes very heavily built-

You can get there! Its just a matter of fitness and determination I think

 

[Lolo]

My sister competed a 14hh Welsh D- he was built like a 16hh cob, but on tiny little legs! They found the time reasonable until they got to 1m+, and their first time round a 1.10m they got quite a few time penalties as his tiny legs couldn't go quickly enough!

To make the time, she just practised not setting up for straightforward fences- so he'd be cruising, about 6 strides out she'd get him up a little more and then would kick on again so he jumped out of a strong and forwards canter. On landing, she'd be kicking so he would be going as soon as he landed. Also, things like jumping angled fences in practise meant they could do things like offset doubles and the like with minimal setting up (and as he had short strides, it helped because they needed to kick on to make the distances!). He was also super fit- ridden every

Photo of him at his last XC with her (she's 12, and has hopelessly outgrown him- in sitting trot her toes would bash his legs!).

(he's the same size as this!)

Both of these were near the end of the round. He's in a cheltenham gag because all the kicking on it required to make the time, meant there was quite a lot of strong pony to pull up... She had to be very brave about going for it!

 

[MissTyc]

As above, when I need them superfit, my cobs do masses of interval training with lots and lots of visits to the gallops to really get those lungs going!

 

[cheekywelshie]

You look very similar to a girl who featured in Your Horse a little while ago - having a XC lesson and had the same stamina problems!! I would say that in your piccy he is probably carrying a little too much weight and you need to get out and canter canter canter. Find hills and go for it!! The only way to build stamina is to work towards it, don't just convince yourself because he's a cob he can't do it, if you've already convinced yourself this is the problem then you won't be open to finding the solution!! Good luck x

That probably was me and him That was last August - he was 550 then on weight tape (!) now is 510 and a lot slimmer. BUT before the 3Day last year (the 0 class) we did get to go to Newmarket for the sponsored ride and that got him going - this year we didn't do anything like that (again dependent on transport) but there is also a shortage of hills near us!

This was a few weeks ago at a HT (and yes, we trotted round some of it!)

http://www.ultimate-images.co.uk/cg...e HT/round 1;i=241;img=110605-whpcht-1416.jpg

http://www.ultimate-images.co.uk/cg...e HT/round 1;i=242;img=110605-whpcht-1417.jpg

 

[Mike007]

Sounds like you might also need some "hill work". Remember that a fit horse cannot perform without a fit rider. Dont think I am being harsh , it is a simple truth,and applys to everyone. Sadly at my age I am only too well aware that my horses limiting factor is ME.
Cobs are tough , Cobs keep going when all the fancy horses have bottled out.Hill work as interval training is great and much better than gallops for their legs . Gallops are vastly overrated and generaly cause more harm than good. Think cardiovascular rather than speed. At the end of the day ,he is YOUR boy and the prize is to get the best HE can give, not what others are doing.Have fun.

 

[native eventer]

I used to event a 15 hh welsh cob originally bought for driving to novice level BE!! He was amazing, just about made the times as he was smaller than all of the tbs I competed against. We struggled at that level with the times... but at pre novice and intro he made them easily.

He was kept v fit, with lots of hill work and canter work. He did not carry much weight as we exercised it or starved it off as to compete with the tbs he needed to be thinner than a show cob would be. He was a very tense, sharp welsh D. Who had such a incredible jump, can't believe his jumping skills he was so careful!! He is still going with a new owner at nearly 20- he still pops round 3ft 3 courses for fun and does PC camp!! If I could find another Welshie like him I would buy it in a flash

 

[Thistle]

Willough is a 14.2/15hh Sec D x Newfie, she evented for years at PC Open/BE Novice, she could make the PC time of 500m/min but always picked up a few time at BE Nov, 520m/min. We always kept her superfit, lots of interval training, B always took very tight lines on her, jumped things at really silly angles (very scopey mare). She also had lots of comp mix and redcell! When she was eventing fit everyone thought she was a TB X as she was lean and streamlined
W hunted quite regularly and is naturally very forward thinking, always ready to go for a gallop.

ATM she is fat and unfit, waddling round the paddock heavily in foal.

Can you take your horse out with others, go for a real yee hah, with a group and get him whizzed up?

 

[ironhorse]

We never did anything quite as ambitious as BE with our big cobs (guess they'd be classified as Maxi cobs these days - they were very much cold blood types, one mainly ID and the other part Suffolk punch) but worked hard on their fitness for hunting, RC ODEs and with one of them, novice team chasing :0
As well as xc schooling and lessons we did lots of fast hacks (it was the era of setaside so we were lucky enough to have plenty of places to canter) and regular sponsored rides in the summer, at which we would mostly canter and jump with very little walking. Have to say it also got us very fit - the only time I have ever seen my OH with a flat stomach (he'd kill me for that!) We were also lucky enough to have one huge hill that we would trot up at least once a week as part of a longer hack, concentrating on rhythm and consistency - the bigger heavier cob loved it with a passion, bless him

 

[cheekywelshie]

Thank you all for your comments - its heartening to know of others' success stories.

It's the BE80T in August - what do I need to be able to do confidently by then and how will I know if he/I am ready? Or should I give it a miss? After all it is a lot to ask perhaps in terms of fitness - we only have 2 months and I don't want to embarass myself with the time. Or should I just try and prepare again for the September 3 Day and try and get him fit for that and leave the BE til next year?

I'm also going to look into the red cell stuff - I don't think the oats were doing anything (or maybe he wasn't getting enough?)

 

[Lolo]

Do you have a biggish field that you can measure the length of? If you do, you can work out how long it should take you to get round/ across it and then you can time yourself. Often, on little cobs with short legs, what feels fast isn't, it's just because their legs go a hundred miles an hour.

Don't pull out, do lots of fitness work, and remember that the 3DE had all the roads and tracks so he would have found that more tiring.

 

[cheekywelshie]

I've been on long hacks with him trotting for a good fair distance on decent ground - and the roads and tracks were no problem he was still full of beans - it's just when jumps down hill are involved ( i have to work harder to keep him going away from home) he gets tired! I've cantered him round the edges of the XC course twice (about 7 and a half minutes which was ok - but it's just going down hills (we can't practice down the hill alas as that bit is fenced off to preserve the ground!)

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

My cob evented before I owned her and she got round Munstead BE90 with only 1.2 time faults so it can be done. She's a big girl as can be seen from my avatar - she shows as a heavyweight cob.

If I were going to to event her again (fingers crossed one day I will) I'd make sure she was fitter than a 'normal' eventer and I'd be doing lots of fast work and hills in preparation. Can you go out with a companion to do some fast work that you can gallop upsides to teach your cob how to really open up and gallop? I am lucky as I can go out with TBs. Galloping alongside another horse can really help open up a cob and show you how to really get a wiggle on.

 

[SpruceRI]

How old is your cob please? Because my Welsh took many years to build up any sort of stamina and several years before she could really gallop.

As everyone else has said, I think for building up stamina and fitness, your cob needs to be lean, do interval training, canter work and lots of gridwork to get him off the forehand, which is the problem when going downhill.

If you can do some XC practice away from home, ride with a long whip either side to curb the napping, and really work on moving swiftly out of the start box, or to the first fence, and then staying in the same fast-ish rhythm before, over and after the fence.

Being able to do this and go on a direct line to the next fence rather than on a curve can really shave off a lot of time.

Finally, if you are excited yourself, does this get your cobby a bit buzzed up?? (It certainly does mine!) So think exciting thoughts before you start, and it might be enough to make him think: 'YES!! Let's goooooooooo' !!!!!

 

[cheekywelshie]

He's 10. Ive had him 4 years. We moved to our current yard last feb and since then have been doing what shows are in at the yard so some dr SJ (2'3) hunter trials (won 2'3) and did 2'3-2'6 recently. Did 3de last sept and came about 16th out of 32 in class o - our first attempt. This year was a disaster tons of time faults and I got eliminated fir going the wrong way on the SJ - which has made me lose a bit of nerve. I am worried people at my yard will laugh if I said I was going to do the be 80 when I can't canter round the course. Someone got on him (they have a warmblood type) and struggled to get him to move... he kept breaking into trot before each fence! Should I keep working on fitness and leave the 80 til another day (it is in august!)

 

[Broodle]

You've had lots of excellent advice about fitness above, but what really leapt out at me from your posts is how hard you seem to have to work to keep your horse going! So, I would work on getting him really responsive to your leg - ride with two schooling whips as suggested above, and give him a little flick if he doesn't immediately respond to a sqeeze. If he drops off the pace give him another flick. If you keep this up for a while he'll get the message that he needs to go forward as soon as you ask and not slow up until you ask him to. You need to be really strict with yourself though and ensure you don't nag him with your legs - it's a flick with the whips or nothing, otherwise he will go back to being dead to your leg. The breaking into trot etc doesn't sound like it has anything to do with fitness really, just backwardness/laziness on his part.

Btw, I used to have a cob on loan who I took hunter trialling and eventing. I found that lots of trotting up and down hills got her really fit - that and keeping her super lean did the trick. Oh, and red cell worked wonders too.

Good luck with your 80T in August. I certainly think you shouldn't change your plans - you have plenty of time to get your horse fit and forward!

ETS: If you're not up for the schooling whips idea, you could substitute the whip flick for a great big pony club kick.

 

[cheekywelshie]

you're right - he is lazy! When I school i ride with a long schooling whip which is great - but when in competition I have to use a small one so that's a bit tricky!! (I did use my spurs for the event) What ends up happening leading up to a fence is I shorten my reins - then several strides out - big pony club kicks, hand off the rein and a smack if no response - then legs on - but this wears me out (imagine that 20 times - apart from the last 3 fences up the hill towards home!!!) I need to find some hills though there aren't any near us - although there is a small forest that I've trotted around as part of my 12 mile hack route.
Am going to post separately about rider fitness cos this needs looking at too.

 

[shortstuff99]

This also sounds to me that the pony is being lazy and unresponsive. However you mention above that before each fence you shorten your reins, are you giving him an unconcious signal to slow down? I would keep your reins/contact consistent between/lead up to fences and only change to a more upright seat on the approach. Using your legs/seat to drive him forwards.

For fitness I used to do interval training for my cob and hills if I could find any! (Cambs v.flat lol). I couldn't give her comp mix though as it would send her absolutely loony! lol I would also say to keep him lean.

 

[JFTDWS]

I have no advice but you've just inspired me to get my cobby beast a bit fitter and hit up a few ode's later this year, while my youngster's out of action... He's very forward, unlike your lad, but is considerably less fit right now!

Good luck!

 

[cheekywelshie]

I started feeding him oats along with his balancer and chaff
right up to the 3DE he was having a fairly big scoop in the last week - and it made hardly any difference!

Sorry - i meant trying to keep a contact (not shorten to ask to slow down ) as he can be quite heavy and in between jumps would gradually get more and more on the forehand which if I didnt manage to get the contact back could be a sloppy jump - it's just those pony club kicks that wear me out - they do *work* but it's tiring. I wish there was more of ME to keep going (hence i need fitness plan).

 

[ester]

I have a welshie too, though we haven't conquered our demons about lone xc yet.. (work in progress still!) so we don't technically 'event' but do lots of other stuff he is 18 now too.

cheeky pic thanks to santaclaus.. ignore me we are a work in progress .. well I am

nb more energy was expended at this jump than maybe usual due to the fact that both girlfriends had gone up the hill without him..


I think I would really second the fact to see if you can find something a bit speedier to get him out with. We are lucky in that we have approx 1/3 mile grass stretch we can use, if I take him alone he will tottle along in his comfort zone perfectly happily but really rather slowly. He uses himself much more and gets much more out of it if we go out with mum's anglo arab who just skips across the ground with no effort at all

He is still rather hard work to keep anywhere near fitness though, do try and make sure he gets a trip out to beach or the hills once at the weekend if poss.

The one thing which really really did help was hunting him last year.. amazing how much longer he thought he could keep going for then and it did him the world of good..lots of hillwork which he coped with better than I ever imagined and made me realise just how much work he could do and that perhaps I had been a bit soft on him I just need to get my own all year round pack of hounds now .. the pic above is just after the end of season.

The main problem atm is this bloomin hard ground and lack of any arena so doing fast work has to be reined in a bit to compensate, but lots of interval training with slow canters are the name of the day

 

[Broodle]

you're right - he is lazy! When I school i ride with a long schooling whip which is great - but when in competition I have to use a small one so that's a bit tricky!! (I did use my spurs for the event) What ends up happening leading up to a fence is I shorten my reins - then several strides out - big pony club kicks, hand off the rein and a smack if no response - then legs on - but this wears me out (imagine that 20 times - apart from the last 3 fences up the hill towards home!!!) I need to find some hills though there aren't any near us - although there is a small forest that I've trotted around as part of my 12 mile hack route.
Am going to post separately about rider fitness cos this needs looking at too.

Only just seen your reply, and just wanted to say that the schooling whips/pony club kicking is meant to be a temporary schooling technique rather than a continuous tool, if you see what I mean? That is, if you follow through with a tickle/kick each and every time he is lazy/unresponsive to your leg eventually he will get the message that that sort of behaviour just isnt tolerated, so in competions you won't need to be working so hard.

Bit of a weird analogy here (bear with me!), but it's a bit like Super Nanny on the tele - if you persist in always following through with 'punishment' (tickle/kick) for 'bad behaviour' (laziness/not responding to leg) eventually your horse will give up with the bad behaviour all together. I have had to go through this process with my young horse who had a very backwards phase, and it really has been worth it! Ultimately, it is not sustainable for you to be having to kick your horse into every fence, especially if he is still managing to drop back to trot.

Anyway, the advice of a total random on the internet only has so much value really - can you arrange to have a lesson out on the XC course and get the instructor to work out an action plan for you?

 

[Princess P]

I have a welsh D who is the spitting image of yours = gorgeous! I'm very lucky as he is very whizzy and more than happy to canter on for hours! We do unaff ode and we did mkec 3de last sept.

I do lots of long fast hacks with lots of long canters to build up his fitness and stamina and keep him slim as he is prone to getting fat.

Have you done any pairs hunter trials so your boy has a lead? May engourage him to speed up a bit? If you ever do any in Cambs we should do pairs together as our horses look identical!
x

 

[Toffee_monster]

Having seen you go round the XC with him (i took the photos you showed from the hunter trials) I would say he definately needs more stamina - he seems to be very stop start on the course and he needs a good active canter with a regular rhythm.

Interval training is a great idea, i used to do this with Molly and always had one day a week where we did gallop work and opened her up, usually 2 days before any competiion we were entered into. You are in the perfect place for this with the hilly XC course at your disposal - i would build it up a bit them have a gallop day on a friday before any competitions

 

[cheekywelshie]

Yep he is very stop start on the course - which is why i am knackered!

Princess P - interesting you mention pairs - I did once do it by accident when he stopped at the water during a hunter trial in Oxford -waited for a friend to catch up and he flew round after him (i was thinking, gosh i wish he was like this all the time!) but obviously he would need to go on his own - he seemed much happier following another and went at a very good pace!

I've had lessons on the XC course where my instructor makes me jump a series - say 11 fences in canter and that nearly kills me - though we did manage it I thought i was goign to fall off at the end! I think the prob is i run out of energy - someone else might (or might not) be able to keep after him then he would know he can't get away with it!


The course is good - but we can't use the hilly part alas that is always closed off and only opened when it is for competition - so i can't canter up there! The rest of it is not so hilly. I need to find some more hills. I have been doing interval training (in terms of 3 x 3 mins canter, 4 mins trot type thing round Salcey forest and back to hanslope but obv no hills there!)

I will try and go out with a fast horse- shame Molly is isn't nearer - she might encourage some speed /stamina!

 

[OldGit]

have you thought of team chasing, I used to event a cob, did one event then couple of team chases, really perked him up.....though SJ became really cr*p!!!!!

 

[cheekywelshie]

Would love to have a go at that but stuck with the usual problem of no transport unless I can hopalong with someone else - although most people are a fair way more experienced than me and doing BE90 upwards.

Am looking into transport now possibly as am sure getting him out and about more might change his attitude (he's just too laid back on shows at MKEC because that's his home!)but horse transport is so expensive what with running costs etc...so waiting to find out how my friend gets on with her recent lorry purchase!

 

[SpruceRI]

Before my current Welsh Cob, I had another, who was very similar to yours.

Napped for England. And was soooo lazy.

In reality, nothing I could do would make him go faster or fizzier. He loved show jumping, so was fairly forward going in that. But everything else - awful. If I got to the 2nd fence on the XC with all the napping and refusing, I'd be too exhausted to continue!

Sometimes you have to face facts that some horses aren't built for the job you may want them to do. My previous one wasn't. So we just show jumped, and he was happy with that.

Best of luck though.