Those with Andys, Do you shoe or not????

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Tamba

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Has above really,
Im schooling on my Andalusian on sand, sand school, but I have a feeling shes a bit foot sore, even on the sand, its not very deep. I want to start taking her out on hacks, but I dont think her feet will stand up to the wear..
Shes never been shod, do I shoe?, Im not sure what to do !!
And advice, shes 5 rising 6.
 
Iberian horses can be amongst the most difficult to keep barefoot. They seem to have been bred to eat mainly dry scrub in semi-desert conditions and they can be terribly sensitive to fresh green grass. It shows in footiness if they don't have shoes on.

It's no co-incidence that this has happened when she is of an age to have finished most of her growing, with a lower metabolic rate, and when the spring grass is coming in fast.

Your first port of call would be to restrict her grazing. As a minimum that would mean strip grazing or only allowing her out at night when the grass sugars are lowest. Even that might not be enough. I had an Iberian who couldn't tolerate fresh green food at all. He's better these days now he's got all his fat off, but still only copes with a couple of hours a day, if that.

If you can't restrict her grazing, or don't want to, then your only option may be to shoe. You could perhaps try boots first, though they aren't legal BE or BD (unless the horse is coming out of shoes, and then only for 6 months and you need a letter of dispensation to compete).
 
If she's sore, then shoe: they're just like any other horse in that department. I have 3 Spanish horses, none have ever had shoes on, but if they were needing them, then shoes they would have. My farrier says they have the toughest feet he's ever seen, 'tho!
 
cptrayes said:
Iberian horses can be amongst the most difficult to keep barefoot. They seem to have been bred to eat mainly dry scrub in semi-desert conditions and they can be terribly sensitive to fresh green grass. It shows in footiness if they don't have shoes on.

It's no co-incidence that this has happened when she is of an age to have finished most of her growing, with a lower metabolic rate, and when the spring grass is coming in fast.

Your first port of call would be to restrict her grazing. As a minimum that would mean strip grazing or only allowing her out at night when the grass sugars are lowest. Even that might not be enough. I had an Iberian who couldn't tolerate fresh green food at all. He's better these days now he's got all his fat off, but still only copes with a couple of hours a day, if that.

If you can't restrict her grazing, or don't want to, then your only option may be to shoe. You could perhaps try boots first, though they aren't legal BE or BD (unless the horse is coming out of shoes, and then only for 6 months and you need a letter of dispensation to compete).
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#That is so very helpful.. she is on restricted grazing at the minute with just a pile of haylage morning and night, no feed. I try to watch her weight , as she has always been a very good doer. I have just stated this spring schooling 3-4 times a week to strengthen her up, and I did mainly groundwork,and slight riding up until now, backed her at 3.
Shes always been mega sensitive feet wise, and I have seen her go lame, when the grass is very wet, as her feet soften, so much.. really thinking of putting on some fronts and seeing how she goes, as I feel that there is a sensitivity there, never had an andy before, just warmbloods and a arab, so Im not sure whether Im imagining it !!
 
Cortez said:
If she's sore, then shoe: they're just like any other horse in that department. I have 3 Spanish horses, none have ever had shoes on, but if they were needing them, then shoes they would have. My farrier says they have the toughest feet he's ever seen, 'tho!
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Were they always like that, or did you do anything to aid it?, I keep thinking if I perservere with the work, they will harden up, but Im worried, I could do damage.
 
No you aren't imagining it. The one I had was ten but he had been footie at 3 and 4, basically as soon as he stopped growing. The rain may just be making the grass grow, not making her feet soft, but the grass can also thin the soles and make the feet soft. Mine had feet so soft that I could bend them with my fingers.

Just be careful to keep a very good diet if you shoe. If the grass continues to affect her, and her feet stay soft, the shoes can end up causing some problems of their own. I got mine because he was due to be put down for navicular.

I you do want to keep her without shoes on then it's probably going to be a bit of an effort for you. But if you want to give it a try, let us know and there are a whole bunch of us who will give you advice.

Tamba she doesn't sound to me like a case that will harden up with work I'm afraid. That would normally have already happened a long time ago if you backed her at 3 and she's never had shoes on. This really is very common with Spanish horses (and with Cleveland Bays who I have since been told have a lot of Spanish blood - don't know if that's true).
 
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cptrayes said:
No you aren't imagining it. The one I had was ten but he had been footie at 3 and 4, basically as soon as he stopped growing. The rain may just be making the grass grow, not making her feet soft, but the grass can also thin the soles and make the feet soft. Mine had feet so soft that I could bend them with my fingers.

Just be careful to keep a very good diet if you shoe. If the grass continues to affect her, and her feet stay soft, the shoes can end up causing some problems of their own. I got mine because he was due to be put down for navicular.

I you do want to keep her without shoes on then it's probably going to be a bit of an effort for you. But if you want to give it a try, let us know and there are a whole bunch of us who will give you advice.

Tamba she doesn't sound to me like a case that will harden up with work I'm afraid. That would normally have already happened a long time ago if you backed her at 3 and she's never had shoes on. This really is very common with Spanish horses (and with Cleveland Bays who I have since been told have a lot of Spanish blood - don't know if that's true).
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thanks again, I feel like a dafty for not asking on the forum about this before, as I have been karatexing them before, to try and help them, my farrier at the time, was a bit of a non starter, he didnt give me any advice, but said not to bother shoeing.. but my new farrier, as said, he would put some on for me, and I after reading your posts, thats what Im going to do, Obviously, I did want to try and keep ehr barefoot, but she has such small little feet for the size of her, I think,. now that shes coming into proper work, I will start shoeing.. will get that arranged tomorrow.
 
Please check the vitamins and minerals are correct before trying shoeing. I've been amazed at how many horses (and humans) are deficient somewhere and the effect it can have. There is forage testing and it might be worth just putting her on a balancer (I use gwf equilibria 500 to great result) and then see. I don't normally post on barefoot threads but yours seemed like I could help. Hope it did. C
 
I have quite a few of these on the books. They are prone to IR and tend towards being overweight.

They can be brilliant barefoot, but you do have to watch what they eat. I've not found them to do well on haylage to date.

Biggest problem I've found is when shod the feet tend to tin can, the heels contract and it becomes a downward spiral which is fixable, but not the easiest thing to do.
 
Tamba said:
no, I havent... are they hoof boots of some kind
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This is a hipposandal - not sure how it could help you though?

hipposandal.jpg
 
LucyPriory said:
I have quite a few of these on the books. They are prone to IR and tend towards being overweight.

They can be brilliant barefoot, but you do have to watch what they eat. I've not found them to do well on haylage to date.

Biggest problem I've found is when shod the feet tend to tin can, the heels contract and it becomes a downward spiral which is fixable, but not the easiest thing to do.
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Thanks..
IR??, not sure what this is??
My girl is quite fit and active, but I dont want to over do it, with the work...if her feet are bothering her..
 
IR = insulin resistance :)

I know someone who has all her andies barefoot and does ok with them.

However they are on soaked hay not haylege which is too acidic and rich for many. I would second mineral check or a good supplemt (note the word good ;)) such as Pro Hoof made by a UKHNCP trimmer which you can get on ebay.

There are numerous boots etc too help that you could put on so you can still give her the work she needs and not worry.

Are you sure there is no thrush making her sensitive at the min? Warm wet weather is ideal for it. Also what about some side and sole pics?

Barefoot forum here http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/forum2.php :D
 
see the problem i have is, that she needs something when shes turned out as well, and not just for the riding
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This would concern me! It's quite one thing to have a horse who's a bit sensitive when worked - because "work" is something they do for us an hour or so a day on surfaces they don't normally walk on. Discomfort when turned on in a field - where they can choose their pace and where the surface is softer and more forgiving - is far more of a problem. Shoes will not fix this, although they may mean that you notice the problem less (it will still be there).

There are quite a few good hoof trimmers in Aberdeenshire, I know of one who definitely works with 2 PRE horses so will have experience of the type. They will give advice on what might be causing the sensitivity and how to fix it. Very definitely worth fixing now, with such a young horse, to avoid all the problems waiting down the line if hoof sensitivity goes on without being dealt with. You can do a search for Barefootworks.co.uk to find the local trimmers.
 
Mine goes nuts on haylag.

He has good feet but sore working on the sand and hacking.

He feels better balanced withi shoes
 
I have a Spanish horse, no shoes, typical small, upright Spanish feet which are hard as iron. He's fed haylage at the moment with no ill effects, and is on grass for part of the day. He arrived (from the UK) as fat as a pig and it has take me the better part of a year to get him to a sensible weight, his feet were not good when he arrived but he's MUCH better now. I don't think he will ever need shoes, but we'll see.
 
Mine struggled with hay or haylage made from rye grass so it may also be worth checking what yours is made from. Other than that I second the checking of minerals etc.

My boy is now back in Spain with no grass and fairly rough hay and his feet are great even though he's in hard work on all terrains.
 
Tamba said:
no, I havent... are they hoof boots of some kind,
see the problem i have is, that she needs something when shes turned out as well, and not just for the riding....hence why im considering shoeing.
but thanks
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Gosh Tamba please do watch her like a hawk. If her feet are diet related and she is not even happy in the paddock then she would be an unexploded bomb of a laminitis risk :(
 
I have had PRE's for over 20 years, none of them have had shoes on, all, without exception have had really good horn. They are very good doers and benefit from a low starch diet, I do feed haylage in winter and I know several other studs who also do so.

The ridden horses are all worked and competed normally, just without shoes.

Some horses just do not suit going unshod and it sounds as though yours is one of them tbh. If she is footy in the paddock I would firstly make sure it is not the onset of laminitis and treat accordingly.
 
I know a breeder who has over 30 purebred Spanish horses. The feet vary considerably. I don't think there is a typical Spanish foot. The whole upright foot thing is myth, they are not THAT special. It sounds as if you have one that has borderline lami. Keep her off the grass on soaked hay to see if there is an improvement. Spanish do not need much calories to keep going.
 
OP I would get her off the haylage and onto meadow hay even if you shoe her, but why not try hay ( soaked might be a good idea ) first and see if there's a difference in the foot pain.
 
cptrayes said:
Iberian horses can be amongst the most difficult to keep barefoot. They seem to have been bred to eat mainly dry scrub in semi-desert conditions and they can be terribly sensitive to fresh green grass. It shows in footiness if they don't have shoes on.

Iberians actually do very well unshod, there are many of them working without shoes and they do very well. They are designed to eat dry shrub, but in spain only the mares are out and their feed is always supplemented with alfalfa and oats. The stallions are kept in unless worked or covering

It's no co-incidence that this has happened when she is of an age to have finished most of her growing, with a lower metabolic rate, and when the spring grass is coming in fast.

PRE's don't stop growing until they are 6/7, you have to watch them when they reach about 10 as they can then pile on the pounds unless worked hard

Your first port of call would be to restrict her grazing. As a minimum that would mean strip grazing or only allowing her out at night when the grass sugars are lowest. Even that might not be enough. I had an Iberian who couldn't tolerate fresh green food at all. He's better these days now he's got all his fat off, but still only copes with a couple of hours a day, if that.

I agree restricting grazing is not a bad idea. I have one particular mare who needs to be out on rubbish grazing and I keep one field particularly for her so that she can go out for 8 hours at a time. She does work rather hard too.

If you can't restrict her grazing, or don't want to, then your only option may be to shoe. You could perhaps try boots first, though they aren't legal BE or BD (unless the horse is coming out of shoes, and then only for 6 months and you need a letter of dispensation to compete).
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Is this mare was mine, I would shoe her, it does not sound as if she is suited to going without
 
tallyho! said:
I know a breeder who has over 30 purebred Spanish horses. The feet vary considerably. I don't think there is a typical Spanish foot. The whole upright foot thing is myth, they are not THAT special. It sounds as if you have one that has borderline lami. Keep her off the grass on soaked hay to see if there is an improvement. Spanish do not need much calories to keep going.
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I would tend to agree with you, only one of mine has what is termed a 'typical upright spanish foot', it was much more common to see them like this 20 years ago, these days, although you do still see a lot of very upright tin cans, a lot of spaniards have good shaped feet.
 
Thanks alot guys, read all your posts, thanks for posting.
Update, I rode her in the outside school, and she was much better.. so I think it could be a combination of fitness, which is what Im putting down to the feet.
However, its not always thats she sore in the field, its only when the ground gets very wet, her feet seem to soften.
I am mega careful with diet, and she gets very little, shes on poor grazing at the minute, supplemented with haylage. Nothing else. I am going to look at a supplement for her feet, but again, I want to be careful what im giving her, as having given her feed even non heating in the past, she goes loopy!And shes actually fittening up nicely.
 
cptrayes said:
No you aren't imagining it. The one I had was ten but he had been footie at 3 and 4, basically as soon as he stopped growing. The rain may just be making the grass grow, not making her feet soft, but the grass can also thin the soles and make the feet soft. Mine had feet so soft that I could bend them with my fingers.

Just be careful to keep a very good diet if you shoe. If the grass continues to affect her, and her feet stay soft, the shoes can end up causing some problems of their own. I got mine because he was due to be put down for navicular.

I you do want to keep her without shoes on then it's probably going to be a bit of an effort for you. But if you want to give it a try, let us know and there are a whole bunch of us who will give you advice.

Tamba she doesn't sound to me like a case that will harden up with work I'm afraid. That would normally have already happened a long time ago if you backed her at 3 and she's never had shoes on. This really is very common with Spanish horses (and with Cleveland Bays who I have since been told have a lot of Spanish blood - don't know if that's true).
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You sound as if you were unlucky with your one cpt, in general they have very good feet with good strong horn, there are very many spanish horses doing very well without shoes, I hesitate to say the majority but it is very common to see them unshod, however not many are attended by trimmers I admit, most are seen by farriers.

I agree that I do not think these feet will harden up with work, but disagree that it is very common with Spanish horses, but I guess your one has possibly coloured your view. Yes Cleveland Bays, along with the Connemara, the Welsh D, the TB and The Highland all have some Spanish Blood in their genes but it is now very diluted.
 
Tamba said:
Thanks alot guys, read all your posts, thanks for posting.
Update, I rode her in the outside school, and she was much better.. so I think it could be a combination of fitness, which is what Im putting down to the feet.
However, its not always thats she sore in the field, its only when the ground gets very wet, her feet seem to soften.
I am mega careful with diet, and she gets very little, shes on poor grazing at the minute, supplemented with haylage. Nothing else. I am going to look at a supplement for her feet, but again, I want to be careful what im giving her, as having given her feed even non heating in the past, she goes loopy!And shes actually fittening up nicely.
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You sound as if you are doing everything right :)

Mine do not notice when the ground is wet so perhaps your girl just needs shoes, some of them do and some of them don't.

It might be an idea to join the BAPSH facebook page, there you can talk to people who really know the PRE and their feet ;)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bapsh/
 
Amaranta said:
You sound as if you were unlucky with your one cpt, in general they have very good feet with good strong horn, there are very many spanish horses doing very well without shoes, I hesitate to say the majority but it is very common to see them unshod, however not many are attended by trimmers I admit, most are seen by farriers.

I agree that I do not think these feet will harden up with work, but disagree that it is very common with Spanish horses, but I guess your one has possibly coloured your view. Yes Cleveland Bays, along with the Connemara, the Welsh D, the TB and The Highland all have some Spanish Blood in their genes but it is now very diluted.
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Without causing a new debate, I dont trust trimmers, and prefer using a farrier, who I know has trained in that discipline, and have qualifications to prove it.
I think ballerina's problem is, that she has very small feet for the size of her, as shes quite a stocky mare.
 
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