Those With Horses on Livery - Do you have liability insurance?

[dressage_diva]

I'm sending my horse away on sales livery and they have asked for liability insurance in case any potential buyers have an accident on my horse whilst he is being tried.

This got me thinking, do those of you who have your horses on livery where they are either cared for by other staff or exercised by other riders have specialist liability insurance? I've had several horses on full livery but have never had specific policies for covering any staff riding them - I'd assumed that they would either be covered by my horse insurance (which has liability), or for my horse which isn't insured, would be covered by my BD member's liability insurance (it turns out that doesn't include livery because they consider it a business even though it's not my business!) or would be covered by the livery yard's own insurance.

Now I'm wondering if I need a special policy to cover liability of my horse's whilst they are on livery in case they either cause damage/injure a handler/rider when someone other than me is handling them?

Anyone have any advice?!

 

[{97702}]

I have personal liability insurance as part of my horse insurance policy and always have done? TBH I never really think about it, and I sort of assumed everyone did the same

 

[be positive]

Insurance is very complex, the advice on the other thread is incorrect a rider or handler will be covered if they have permission to ride from you but not if you are paying them, so livery staff will be covered by the yard insurance for 3rd party and should have there own personal accident to cover injury to themselves.
Someone trying a horse will only have a case to claim if they can prove negligence if they had an accident and this should be covered by the yards care and custody insurance, your BD cover would possibly apply if the horse caused an accident to a 3rd party but someone riding is not the 3rd party in this situation, the yard should have cover in place which should suffice for just about any circumstances.

 

[Equi]

Insurance is very complex, the advice on the other thread is incorrect a rider or handler will be covered if they have permission to ride from you but not if you are paying them, so livery staff will be covered by the yard insurance for 3rd party and should have there own personal accident to cover injury to themselves.
Someone trying a horse will only have a case to claim if they can prove negligence if they had an accident and this should be covered by the yards care and custody insurance, your BD cover would possibly apply if the horse caused an accident to a 3rd party but someone riding is not the 3rd party in this situation, the yard should have cover in place which should suffice for just about any circumstances.

Which part is incorrect, just incase i have got things all wrong and am incorrectly covered!

 

[Kat]

I would only go to a yard with proper public liability insurance for all of their commercial activities. If I used a freelance I would want to be sure they have proper public liability too.

Most policies for owners exclude commercial business arrangements.

 

[zaminda]

I would assume in that situation that it would be there insurance in place, as they would be in charge of the horse. I have liability insurance for mine, and care and custody liability insurance for if I am dealing with other peoples horses in a commercial sense. Interestingly my YO asked about insurance the other day, as NFU who are her insurers have asked her to check everyone is covered due to an incident locally when someone was involved in an accident on the road, and it turned out had no cover.

 

[dressage_diva]

Gosh it’s such a minefield and I’m now even more confused as different people tell me different things!

So now I’m less worried about my horse that is on full livery (he’s retired) as the yard’s insurance should cover if any of their staff were injured whilst handling him? I presume that my own liability insurance through my NFU policy would cover me if he were to injure a 3rd party (eg. god forbid get lose on the road and cause an accident), even though he is on a paid livery yard? I will ring NFU to check.

However, it’s my other horse I’m now worried about. He is not insured (other than my BD membership insurance) and I spoke to Sheerwater and they said:

“Your BD policy allows other riders to use your horse with your prior consent for hacking and pleasure purposes. Whilst your horse is at a paid livery yard , this is treated as a business and is not covered under the terms of your cover with our insurers.”

This means that he presumably isn’t insured when on livery if he were to escape and injure a 3rd party? Or would that be covered by the livery yard’s insurance rather than my insurance if they were the one handling him at the time? It seems that whilst on sales livery he would not be covered either (and I appreciate that others are saying the livery yard’s policy should cover him but their contract to me states that I must also provide my own liability insurance so I would feel more comfortable having some!)

 

[ihatework]

The yard should have their own insurance surely?

 

[Auslander]

The yard should have their own insurance surely?

This! It seems a bit odd to me for a professional establishment to be insisting that you have your own liability insurance to cover their arses while your horse is on their yard.

I would think about insuring your horse while he is on sales livery though - just in case.

 

[dressage_diva]

Thanks all, I’m going to ring some insurers for some advice today but my concern is that most of them will say they don’t provide cover where I am paying someone else to look after him.

It’s such a minefield and I know that liability insurance with animals is such a hot topic at the moment.

 

[DabDab]

I would only go to a yard with proper public liability insurance for all of their commercial activities. If I used a freelance I would want to be sure they have proper public liability too.

Most policies for owners exclude commercial business arrangements.

This. The yard should be covered.

Could you go back to them and ask them to clarify what their professional establishment insurance covers so you are clear on where any gaps may be?

 

[dressage_diva]

All I've just had a chat with an equine lawyer through the free legal helpline available to BD members. The very knowledgeable lady advised that whilst livery/sales yards should have there own commercial liability insurance there is a small chance that a 3rd party could raise a claim against the owner of the horse instead of the livery yard, and in this case you do definitely need your own separate liability insurance and you should check whether it does cover your horse when on livery and you are not there nor you are the one riding/caring for the horse at the time of the incident as she said some insurance will not cover these situations as standard for leisure owners and you may need to extend your policy or take out a new policy with different insurers. She suggested I contact Shearwater and NFU.

Before speaking to her I rang KBIS and they weren't sure of this grey area when the horse is on livery (they confirmed that in an ideal situation such an accident should be covered under the yard's insurance, but weren't certain whether their policies would cover a horse on livery whilst I was not there) and are going to ring me back to confirm if their standard horse owner liability insurance will cover these situations.

I'd suggest that anyone that keeps there horse on livery where someone else cares for/rides it, speak with their insurers for clarification.