Those with your own land/ on DIY livery

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AnnaJLloyd

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Pimms for anyone reading this as it’s a jolly whiney first post and long, but would really appreciate any feedback!

Quick backstory: I own a lovely thoroughbred mare, have owned horses all my life and mostly had them on DIY livery. Eight years ago work commitments dictated switching to a full livery yard, so admittedly I’m rather out of the loop in terms of what things cost these days to buy separately.

Back to present day: My partner and I have recently decided to work more from home and have been looking for a house which would enable us to do so. We’ve found one we like and it happens to have 2 acres of land, plus another 3 acres for sale separately (which the owner of the house also owns hence the option to buy both paddocks is available to us). Initially we weren’t looking for a house with land at all, but we did need a couple of outbuildings and in this case it’s come with acreage.

It’s an ideal set up in every which way, would need no money spent on it to make it ‘horse ready’ and serves all other non-horsey purposes brilliantly. The catch is that it’s over an hour away from current yard and the next nearest suitable yard is a 45 minute drive on a good day. There are more local yards but for one reason or other they aren’t suitable (one has very limited turnout for example, another offers only grass livery with no stabling etc).

Initially I thought “fab! No problem! I’ll keep her at home!” Then I started doing the sums and can’t quite believe how little I’d be saving by doing this. It’s not so much that the aim would be to save money by keeping her at home (though obviously that’d be lovely!), but in order to purchase the additional land I would need to justify the expense for doing so and whilst the land is a good price I can’t understand how just the basic ‘keep’ of my horse (I’m not referring here to the land cost itself) would be any better - if not worse - than full livery costs. Feed, hay, bedding etc just seem to gobble up the majority of livery fees alone. Then there’s the added costs of a companion neddy to think about!
The difficulty is that were we to buy the house (which is perfect for our extremely specific needs) mare would HAVE to live at home or I'd just not get to see her due to travelling to/from yard time. So if possible I'd like to make it work :-/.

Obviously I’m aware prices have gone up but how on earth do all you who own/rent acreage make it work financially? Is buying in bulk still the done thing? Most places I’ve contacted seem to offer a barely-worth-doing discount for buying this way.

Pimms all round!
 
I did save money when I moved and started keeping my pony at home, but I suppose it depends on how much livery etc you are paying now. I had to buy my own hay, feed and shavings anyway though. I save in winter as at the livery yard we had to start bring in at nights when the YO decided but now they stay out till nov/ early dec depending on the weather. I got my companion 'free to good home' and all she costs me is a trim and routine vet stuff.
I agree with the buying in bulk thing, my friend goes somewhere that does offer a discount but nowhere round me seems to offer much of one. I think the thing to also think is that the cost of the land is like an investment as you can always sell at some point and land only increases in value (as long as it is looked after). I probably haven't really helped much but just wanted a pimms!
 
I do not save any money having my horses at home ( I have four ATM ) we have twenty acres ish grazing and an eight acres wood .
The maintaining and caring for the fencing takes time and money and grass has to be looked after which takes time and more money there's always something needing doing to the buildings it never stops .
However I would not change it for the anything I don't have to compromise on any thing ever the turnout is organised as I like it the forage is the forage I like the bedding is the bedding I like etc etc from the muckheap to how we do up the bridles when we hang them up the place is a temple to my equine foibles .

Buy the place and the extra land and find a friend with a horse to share it with you so you have cover and help for when your away or poorly .
But I don't think you will be able to sell it to your OH as a cost saving.
 
I have rented my own fields and have been on assisted livery or DIY livery. I could save some money being on the rented fields but not lots.

Could she live out more to save on bedding?
What about getting a paid livery (or two) to keep her company. You would have someone to ride with and swap stable jobs with if you were away.
 
I switched from livery to horses at home 17 years ago now and it brought huge savings for me. One of the biggest factors is that I can have the horses out more which reduces bedding and feed costs (assuming the grazing is good).:
 
If you lack suitable yards nearby are your other needs going to be met, such as hacking buddies, school to use etc.
If you are used to a busy yard horses at home can get very lonely.
Could you take in a livery to make your horses companion pay for itself?
 
On cost the other thing you have to factor in is the cost of the money to buy the equestrian part of the property if you are taking a mortage to buy .
That would be the cost of the part of the loan that covers the different between the price of the property with the land and equestrian buildings and what it would be worth without that's a hidden cost of having them at home.
 
Before I kept them at home I had 1 on full livery, the cost savings are huge but it depends on how you do things I guess. Total 'livery' costs inc feed, bedding & hay for 2 are just over £1100 and I sell about £900 of hay a year so my net cost for 2 for the year are about £200 (or 2 weeks livery at the rate I was paying) no brainer for me

I haven't included extra mortgage as land prices are increasing so I hope to make a profi whn I sell, t I still think Im quids in
 
Many thanks for the replies! More Pimms for you all!

In answer to some points raised;

- I'm not really concerned with the money regarding the land purchase itself (in as much a it would be an investment, though would not buy the additional acreage if it was not needed which in this case it would be).

- Yes she could live out more, though is a spindly tb and would need stabling and feed and good hay over winter as she's the most dreadful doer!

- Companion wise, you're quite right I hadn't really considered a 'livery' who'd cover their own costs. And were I to get my own I would abandon the thoroughbred-type route and go for something more hardy as her field buddy.

- Hacking is fantastic and I know several people fairly locally who livery on the more local yards (though for various reasons joining them as a livery at those yards wouldn't work for me - for example tb is arthritic so limited turnout is a no-go which particularly through winter most of them insist upon). So the facilities side of things would be fine as we mostly hack these days anyway.
 
If the hacking is great that a big thing .
I would buy the extra land even if you don't need it because you will err need it .
One thing I wish I had done is build a hard standing with a shed that would have you time and money when you are busy with work .
The bigger acreage will allow you plenty fot two winter sacrifice pasture which would perfect.
 
Big fields is the key to saving day to day costs for me, I have 12 acres for 2 horses, loads of grass for them to eat and make hay and so they don't come in much as i can move them around a lot.
With your own land/ rules you might find your poor doer can be turned around - a nice warm rug and a round bale of haylage in the field for ad lib and field shelter and honestly she might never need to come in!!

On the companion front - false economy to get one that doesn't have the same nutritional needs as your current horse, a hardy pony will need restricted grazing in summer and to avoid hay in field in winter so you'll end up keeping them separate all the time!!
 
Polos Mum said:
With your own land/ rules you might find your poor doer can be turned around - a nice warm rug and a round bale of haylage in the field for ad lib and field shelter and honestly she might never need to come in!!
Click to expand...

This is what I found. When I first moved I had a 7/8 TB mare who positively thrived once given the chance to live out - she did have free access to her stable but rarely used it.
 
You'll be surprised how well she might do living out in the winter as long as she is fed enough forage etc... :)

You need to have good shelter, correct rugs for the weather, ad lib hay (with hard standing round the hay feeder), hard feeds as required, water and she really should be fine.

Horseshayfeeder.jpg


^ From left to right - arab, anglo-arab and ex racehorse.

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^ The anglo and an arab.

Last winter they were spoiled and came in at night for the two weeks we had 18 inches of snow.

Definitely buy the extra land.
 
Yes buy the extra land without doubt. Can never have too much, it opens up all sorts of options as have been highlighted here. Keeping them at home has been a saving IME in that I buy all my forage locally from a farmer who does me the most spectacular deals. I buy off the field which saves a lot.

I would never go back to a livery yard (especially after what I read on here at times) Having them at home is wonderful.
 
Cons are

cost
time
lack of support

Pro is you get to do it your way

I tried having a livery but did not get the right one and ended up with 3 horses so that the companion has a companion when one goes out. The costs were much higher than I thought they would be and the maintenance and organising of hay and feed takes time. It can also be hard to get help when you need it. But I love the freedom to do it how I want and that makes the downsides worth it for of. If you do not feel a real need for that though I would stay on livery and find somewhere near to your new home to livery.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
what about getting a mini Shetland as a companion, as they don't eat so much so, wont need shoes etc, so wouldn't cost you much more?
Click to expand...

Honestly becasuse they need restricted grazing all the time so couldn't be in with the poor doer TB and they escape all the time and the poor Op will spend all her time trying to manage the *****land not enjoying her horse
 
If I couldn't have mine at home I would be unable to afford to have one, let alone two.

I'm quite lucky as we have hay and straw for the cattle, taking a bit out for two ponies makes no difference in terms of cost. The farrier is my biggest expense by far.
 
First of all I think you have to think of it as a sort of alternative lifestyle and not compare it with a yard. I have kept ponies in my back garden for years and at one point when I could not drive kept my horse in a converted garage in a suburb of Sheffield and rode 6 days a week. There is nothing better than walking into your kitchen in the morning knowing you can pop out give them their breakfast and then watch t.v. Also when you go to and event you get extra time in bed.
Stables in the curtilage of your property do no generally need planning permission, go on e-bay and buy cheapest biggest shed, they come and put it up for £600- £800, that your storage. A role of ground protection instead of concrete, £300, invest in a good main energiser and electric fencing and expand as you need it. If You really feel you need the stable an do want the expense take the garage door off and put a wall and stable door a third of the way in, you can get the frame and door from Harlows that will last a life time. Use easily biodegradable bedding and just spread on the borders or underneath the hedge, no big muck heap and be able to buy the nice youngster that you would not be able to afford or justify at keeping livery.
If you want the smart stables, the concrete, post and rail fencing it will cost you a fortune and will add very little value to the property treat yourself to an expensive kitchen instead.
 
I have 2 acres of land with my house, and I rent another 8 acres (even though the farmer calls it 9!) mine breaks even more or less on the cost of haylage, we take a cut of haylage (last year we made hay but that was due to the horrendous weather and not being good quality). I have also started to keep a few pedigree sheep so I am selling lambs as I breed them which adds a bit more profit into the job. As others have said it is a lifestyle choice and be prepared for your horse/s to break everything they possibly can to irritate your husband (says the woman who has had to remove a whole fence around her horse tonight while asking the husband to try and not pull the shoe off!).
 
Why are you asking as most horsy people would have snapped the extra land up (your own hay?) Buy and worry about the trivial stuff afterwards. And yes having bought our own land and stables I can keep my horses as I see fit not somebody imposing their ideas of how my horses should be kept, it is hard work maintenance wise but deeply satisfying. :)
 
We didn't buy for financial reasons and tbh, I don't know whether we save money or not compared to a livery yard. I wouldn't ever want full livery anyway, as I like the horses to feel like mine, not someone else's.
Yes, the maintenance can be a pita sometimes but half the time when we were at livery we were doing the maintenance anyway. As someone else said, there is nothing like putting the kettle on before going out first thing to do the horses and then going back into your own kitchen for a cuppa. I usually do mine while still wearing my dressing-gown. You can do exactly as you want, when you want, with no-one to object. I wouldn't have a livery though, once bitten, twice shy, in our case. And I certainly wouldn't go back to livery, even if it were cheaper.
 
Having been on various yards for 12 years before buying our own place with land, I wouldn't consider going back to a livery yard now. Yes, it's harder work maintaining your own fields etc but you have so much more freedom to choose turnout/strip grazing/ feed and worm regimes/ and to be able to see your horses grazing from your house is MAGIC!!

I have 2 horses with similar feed requirements and they also will stay in quite happily when I take one out for a ride. If they don't you will have problems!! I started with a snakball to keep the one at home happy but they don't mind being separated now.

I am also lucky in that I live in a very horsey area and have made lots of friends very quickly. It could be a bit lonely otherwise and the responsibility 24/7 could be a bit daunting. Good luck whatever you decide!!
 
Thank you very much for all responses!
It's given me a lot to think about but I'm really liking the idea of being in full control of my own horses (see, in my head I now have a minimum of 2! Oh dear, this could get messy!).

If I could work it in such a way that I 'broke even' I think it would be worth it for the investment but mostly for the 'lifestyle choice' as most of you seem to view it (quite rightly!). It's not entirely alien to me as I've mostly done DIY on rented grazing until the most recent years, and I've always felt my mare would benefit from a more loose turnout regime as she's so much better the more turnout she gets.
FARACAT yours all look super and VERY happy, so that's given me food for thought!

I notice a lot of you make your own hay and that's not something I have any experience in. May start a new thread about it as the *possibility* of more grazing is, well, a possibility at some point in the future.

Huge thank you's allround! :-)
 
With regards to people suggesting having one livery, lots of horror stories I think.:D

However, I am in an arrangement where I don't pay to keep my pony on somebody's land with theirs, (they needed a companion/help) but in return I have to follow their rules.

It's quite simple, I don't have any financial input, so their rules go. As the "livery" if I couldn't live with that then I would move.

But in return they and I get somebody to share tasks, cover for holidays ect. and help with costs like moving the muckheap, replacing the odd broken rail.

Just saying, if the cost of rental is not important, an arrangement like this can work and it does give you more control.
 
I had my two horses on part livery for 8 years before buying our house with 6 acres a year and a half ago. It has been so much cheaper keeping my horses at home. They have been living out with a decent field shelter. My 22yr old TB was stiff and quite poor when on livery but has looked so much better since she has been living out. She filled out and is never stiff anymore. She does like spending time in the field shelter and as our plan was always to build a small yard I am going to give her access to her stable when she wants.

We've had some major expenses this year putting in an arena and now 3 stables, tackroom, covered wash area and hay storage. The yard has gone up this week which is very exciting and I'm desperate to get the horses into their new stables even just for a groom. We figured at £14k per year for livery it will only take 5 years to balance out the cost of the yard and arena which should add to the value of the property a bit too.

I do have help poo picking and have a freelance groom who can cover and some amazing friends who are willing to help. This is crucial when you've been used to the flexibility livery gives. I would love to have someone to hack with but there are lots of people locally and friends sometimes box to mine to hack with me.

Financially it will depend on how you keep your horses but you will have the flexibility to choose. My good doer has lost weight and looks fab and is fitter from living out and the TB has really come into her own living out when I was convinced she would need stabling.

To top it off looking at them out of your window is great and I am on cloud nine this week watching my perfect little yard being built. I cannot wait to use it :0)
 
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