thought on the whole shoes/barefoot thing

So what lazybee... it's something to do on a monday :) you'll never stop people arguing about stuff that matters to them. As far as I can see it's as open as a discussion gets on t'internet!

Calling people narcissistic with some sort of problem is a new rude meter record though. Good going! :D
 
tallyho! said:
I actually wanted to know if any horses competed at Olympic level barefoot and apart from the well known Emma Hindle, sadly no, I can't find anyone this year. One day...
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The Spanish Riding School don't compete at Olympic level but I think its fair to say the horses are trained to a similar level. They also work well into their 20's which is a testament to their soundness and ability to stand up to hard work.

Sadly a lot of dressage riders think a horse must be shod. When I sold my 4 year old the first thing they did was shoe her even though she was hacking over rough ground with no problems :( She has a very loving home and is doing well and is happy though and for me that is the main thing :)
 
horserider said:
Perhaps some of you barefoot guru's would like to offer your services to the Olympic equestrians.
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No thanks, I'm not good enough to give them advice on training and I have no desire to interfere with their wish to shoe. I will respond if they ask, just as per normal.

horserider said:
They've obviously crippled their horses by making them wear shoes.
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Not most of them, but have you seen Totilas' feet? Have you seen how very unlevel his front legs are in extended trot. He's 10, I think?

Have you looked at the bizarre rocker shoes some of the dressage horses are now fitted with? Have you been to a high level competition and seen just how many of them are having to be shod in bars? Do you know that joint injections are routine in high level horses?


horserider said:
Do them a favour and pop over with your hoof boots and DIY hay analysis testing kits.
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If they asked, I would, willingly give them my time for free, as I do anyone else who asks for my help. Until they ask, or try to tell me on here that I don't know what I am talking about, then I won't interfere. Just like normal:p.


horserider said:
Who says shod horses slip on roads ?
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I do and so do a lot of other people. There was even a petition by riders of shod horses against the laying of SMA, wasn't there?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/67636.html

horserider said:
My experience is that a fit horse carrying itself correctly manages similarly shod or unshod.
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Try riding on smooth tarmac on a 1 in 4 slope.
 
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lazybee said:
To some people on this thread as it's now descended into farce.........


You are motivated by the desire to defend your ego to the bitter end in the vain attempt to get the last word, by dissecting threads line by line as you do, shows you have some kind of problem. Do you see open discussion as a threat to your stance and beliefs? You refuse to see others' points of view as being valid; and don't for one minute accept what they have to say. Narcissist springs to mind.
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And what was your own motivation in making this post :D ?
 
In the past I have had some horses shod and some unshod Tallyho and I will continue to do so when I start to ride again I expect. When I sent the same filly for backing they shod her and I agreed as I thought it was actually an important part of her education to be calm and easy to shoe. 6 weeks later when she came home I took her shoes off.

One of the optional courses as part of my vet degree is shoeing and trimming so I will be interested to see what they say. I know it can be easy to go with the attitude 'if it isn't broke don't fix it' as regards putting shoes on a horse in work, but my own personality is more questioning and open to trying new things :) I don't like shoes myself, but if I needed them having explored the alternatives, I would use them and as a vet in future I will explain the options so clients can make an informed choice of their own and I will support them in that whether it is shoes or no shoes :)
 
Hollycatt said:
In the past I have had some horses shod and some unshod Tallyho and I will continue to do so when I start to ride again I expect. When I sent the same filly for backing they shod her and I agreed as I thought it was actually an important part of her education to be calm and easy to shoe. 6 weeks later when she came home I took her shoes off.

One of the optional courses as part of my vet degree is shoeing and trimming so I will be interested to see what they say. I know it can be easy to go with the attitude 'if it isn't broke don't fix it' as regards putting shoes on a horse in work, but my own personality is more questioning and open to trying new things :) I don't like shoes myself, but if I needed them having explored the alternatives, I would use them and as a vet in future I will explain the options so clients can make an informed choice of their own and I will support them in that whether it is shoes or no shoes :)
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Ooh yes, please do let me know what the course entails. It really will be very interesting to see what the academics include in the course material. Not least to see if any new research is being taken on board or being explored at least.

Will you be a vet near me???? :D
 
I am going to the dark side of small animal work :p :p - having thought I'd be a horse vet for the last 40 years :eek:

I have to take 2 years out of the degree to work and save as I can't afford my tuition fees and banks will not lend for a second degree :( However I will be in touch with my friends so if there are any good course materials I can pass them on :)
 
I let my OH read this thread as thought he could learn about the shoes versus barefoot debate. It seems he is rather anti-shoe to judge by the rant he went off on!:rolleyes:

Oh, and you lot scare him:D
 
Well someone's got to pull the balls off cats and dogs I suppose :D. I did some WE at a vets because I thought I'd like to be one at school... I observed a cataract removal from a boxer bitch at the aneasthetists end of the table and now I can't eat lychees... :D:D

Be good to see if any of the results of barefoot studies at various other universities, particularly America, are discussed.
 
cptrayes said:
Try riding on smooth tarmac on a 1 in 4 slope.
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Yep, done that and ridden the Black mountains in rain.

Do find SMA slippery for everyone .though. Managed to get local council to resurface a stretch of newly laid SMA because it was so slippery to my both unshod cob and young WB shod with fronts only. Think you'll also find that cyclists, motorists and motorbikers are equally opposed to SMA, so no this 'fact' is a bit of a desperate White elephant on behalf of Barefoot groupies.

Your random observations re performance horses are another desperate attempt to clutch at straws. How many athletes do you know who do not have aches and pains ? At top level, we're seeing so many horses at the top of their game in their late teens. To compare them with a horse that tootles round the menege or ambles down the local lanes when the sun shines, -or does a couple of hours hunting (and standing around) once or twice a year is frankly laughable.
You barefooters shout about 'performance trims' for your 'performance ' horses and though can't compare their work load to that that we're seeing at Greenwich, criticize them for shoeing. Better a shod hoof than a broken leg.

Perhaps BT trimmers should use the Irish bog donkey as a role model instead of mustangs ?
Lots of road work and grazes on lush Irish grass and damp ground. No muzzling needed. Just work.
 
tallyho! said:
Well someone's got to pull the balls off cats and dogs I suppose :D. I did some WE at a vets because I thought I'd like to be one at school... I observed a cataract removal from a boxer bitch at the aneasthetists end of the table and now I can't eat lychees... :D:D

Be good to see if any of the results of barefoot studies at various other universities, particularly America, are discussed.
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He he - I like small animal work for the variety. Someone brought a pidgeon in the other day as they saw it fly into a wall and it was stunned. You never know what will happen next! :)

As part of my degree I get to write a thesis. SO many topics but something like barefoot performance with secondment to Spanish Riding School I thought may be interesting :D

I agree horseandrider that a lot of people boast about their their 'high performance' barefoot horse competing successfully. Often at a lower level (badly) and I also find this dissapointing. On the other hand as kids we all used to fly round the local intermediate XC tracks barefoot on our ponies with no problems :eek: and this you tend not to hear about or see these days :( Some people shoe un-necessarily for want of a good farrier. I know a stud that used to shoe their SJ youngsters (yearlings up). My two year old - same age, same feed, no shoes, but perfect feet - as different farrier. The farrier was crap and the feet very long so yes they did crack badly in summer - they needed a good trim not shoes.

I don't think one solution fits everyone. What I do believe is that people should be given the options and make their own choice for the solution that suits them, their horse and their curcumstances. A happy, healthy horse is what we all want at the end of the day surely?
 
horserider said:
At top level, we're seeing so many horses at the top of their game in their late teens.
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But you don't see the failures, do you?

A statistic quoted by Phillipe Karl in a book I am reading at the moment says that in 1978, the average number of years in work of an insured competitive dressage horse before it had to stop was 5.5 In other words, the average dressage horse did not reach 10 before it was knackered. There are people who believe that it is now worse.


horserider said:
You barefooters ....... can't compare their work load to that that we're seeing at Greenwich ..... criticize them for shoeing.
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I'll bet my hunter's workload is directly comparable, footwise, or greater. Have you looked at the mileages the Rockley hunters clock up? It's on the blog.

And we are NOT criticising them for shoeing. How many more times does this have to be said before you stop misquoting?


horserider said:
Perhaps BT trimmers should use the Irish bog donkey as a role model instead of mustangs ?
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Most of us don't use mustangs to compare, we use other hardworking barefoot horses.


horserider said:
Lots of road work and grazes on lush Irish grass and damp ground. No muzzling needed. Just work.
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I assume that you mean by "bog donkey" the standard Irish IDx? I think you'll find that most of those are shod at 3 and hunted. Not an example I would wish to follow thanks :(

There was a 5 stage vetting of an Irish horse, in Ireland, featured in one of the monthly mags once. It failed on the trot up with sore feet. The vet told them to shoe it and revetted it and passed it, so there are bog donkeys and bog donkeys, just as there are in the UK.
 
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Goldenstar said:
PR you are way off the mark about pro's and caring for their horses just like happy hackers race horse owners and lower level competitive riders you will find a range of emotional attachment within a group of pro's some are besotted with their horses others less so but in my experiance (first hand ) the care of horses is very good.
Modern competition horses are for the most part bred for the job and the vast majority enjoy their work.
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You've made a valid point here, what I was trying to point out is, that there is a range of emotional attachment. Unfortunately one or two got a bit over emotional about it,:D

Different though to confuse emotional attachment and care. Two very different things.:)
 
Pale Rider said:
You've made a valid point here, what I was trying to point out is, that there is a range of emotional attachment. Unfortunately one or two got a bit over emotional about it,:D

Different though to confuse emotional attachment and care. Two very different things.:)
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Emotional attachment and care are different a horse is quite happy without a humans emotional attachment as long as its care is good and it's happy in its enviroment and with its work.
Amazing coverage from XC today amazing equine athletes .
 
cptrayes said:
I assume that you mean by "bog donkey" the standard Irish IDx? I think you'll find that most of those are shod at 3 and hunted. Not an example I would wish to follow thanks :(
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No, I mean donkey as in donkey. You know, those long eared equines who in my life time carried the peat from the bog and tolled tirelessly on Irish farms like my grandfather's.
Would have thought they would have been a more appropriate role model for your barefooty trim working in such an environment as opposed to feral Mustangs roaming the American plains. Not quite as trendy though.
 
horserider said:
No, I mean donkey as in donkey. You know, those long eared equines who in my life time carried the peat from the bog and tolled tirelessly on Irish farms like my grandfather's.
Would have thought they would have been a more appropriate role model for your barefooty trim working in such an environment as opposed to feral Mustangs roaming the American plains. Not quite as trendy though.
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I don't think feral mustangs are a good role model myself, but donkeys are even worse :D
 
Horserider, I hope you can understand that you need to stop being so erm.. What's the word... Pointy finger and possibly a bit condescending about "you barefooters". I am guilty of also being rude.

Truth is "you barefooters" just want to coexist alongside shod horses because one solution does not fit all.

If ppl post on forums asking advice about a barefoot horse or a navicular case, yes, a "you barefooter" is going to reply. And vice-versa. You don't have to wade in and start the pointy finger wagging though. :D

Barefoot and shod will coexist into the future and that is an excellent thing for horses! Let's discuss both but drop the name calling.

Please??? :)
 
tallyho! said:
Horserider, I hope you can understand that you need to stop being so erm.. What's the word... Pointy finger and possibly a bit condescending about "you barefooters". I am guilty of also being rude.

Truth is "you barefooters" just want to coexist alongside shod horses because one solution does not fit all.

If ppl post on forums asking advice about a barefoot horse or a navicular case, yes, a "you barefooter" is going to reply. And vice-versa. You don't have to wade in and start the pointy finger wagging though. :D

Barefoot and shod will coexist into the future and that is an excellent thing for horses! Let's discuss both but drop the name calling.

Please??? :)
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Erm, but I am an unshodderer and not quite sure what point you're trying to make, other than you don't like anyone who doesn't toe the barefoot mantra line unquestioningly.

Debate is good. It is not the sole preserve of those who agree with you (generic usage*), that wouldn't be a debate, would it ? Maybe you've (generic usage*) forgotten the first post and what the thread is actually about.
As for name calling ?? Is barefooter a term of abuse now ? Sorry, what would the non metal foot supporters like to be called ?

*NB. No one, animal, vegetable or mineral in particular was named or referred to in this post.
 
horserider said:
Erm, but I am an unshodderer and not quite sure what point you're trying to make, other than you don't like anyone who doesn't toe the barefoot mantra line unquestioningly. .
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No! No! No! No! No!

I don't care what line you toe to be frank or anyone else. Just stop being so mean and making stuff up about people you don't know!

I give up. You clearly can't read :rolleyes: or be nice.
 
tallyho! said:
No! No! No! No! No!

I don't care what line you toe to be frank or anyone else. Just stop being so mean and making stuff up about people you don't know!

I give up. You clearly can't read :rolleyes: or be nice.
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Pot, kettle, black and yes this time this is aimed at you Tallyho
 
YorksG said:
Pot, kettle, black and yes this time this is aimed at you Tallyho
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Yes ok yorksg, I apologised for it and actually I can see that I havent been nice either. But I am trying to be whilst also having a discussion. I actually want to try and have a decent discussion with horse rider and everyone else but all that seems to happen is I get patronised.

Well never mind. Maybe not this time.
 
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