Thoughts on a weird horse ‘thing’

[BBP]

I have no idea how I’m going to explain the following, so bare with me whilst I waffle. 3 events with the same horse (gelding):

1. doing carrot stretches round towards the hock, all fine. Horse ‘cheats’ a bit by lifting a hind leg so did that and then back to standing. Fine. Then I looked away and looked back and the horse is hunched up (like when you run a pen each side of the quarters to get them to lift their back). Happened suddenly and then back to normal. Boy bits were dropped during the stretch so i had wondered if something had happened there to make him react.

2. a few days later, stood tied up on yard, one hind foot slightly on a lip of the concrete and suddenly did a weird hunch/stumble. Again I was near the hind end brushing the tail I think. Sister thought it was horse slipping off the small step but it felt a bit ‘odd’ to me.

3. 2 days later. Horse stood next to me in the arena side on to me whilst I sat on a jump block looking down playing on my phone. I look up and the horses back end stumbles sideways like it’s about to fall on top of me. Then corrects and seems completely normal again.

Any ideas at all what might be going on? It’s so fleeting you almost doubt you saw it. Seems normal every other way. Im guessing if it’s any sort of sleep deprivation it would be the front end that buckles? It’s really unusual and 3 times in a week/10days has me fretting.

 

[Wizpop]

Hmmmm, I don’t know but I think I’d be ringing vet for a chat as could be neurological ?

 

[Berpisc]

Yes agree, sounds like a neurological issue, worth a chat with a vet.

 

[Goldenstar]

Is he lying down to sleep every day ?

 

[spotty_pony]

Could still be Narcolepsy or even Wobblers. Get the Vet to come and have a look.

 

[BBP]

Is he lying down to sleep every day ?

That’s what I’m not sure of. I almost never catch him lying down in the field, but he does go down to roll or lie in the arena if he is in there, so I’m wondering if he isn’t doing it in the field. I’m wondering about bringing him in to the hard standing/arena in the day to see if he lies down more there. In fact thinking about it, the last few times I have gone to work him in there (just loose or on lunge) he has laid down and stayed lying down. I thought it might be his newest trick but now I’m thinking maybe he is actually tired.

I’ll certainly be chatting to the vet. I did a few basic neuro tests myself this morning and nothing odd there, but I’m no vet.

 

[spotty_pony]

Sounds more like sleep deprivation after your last post… does he have a stable he can go into for part of the day for a sleep?

 

[scats]

My mare has suffered two bad sleep deprivation attacks but those have involved her front legs buckling and her going head first into the wall.
Definitely worth a vet check.

 

[BBP]

Sounds more like sleep deprivation after your last post… does he have a stable he can go into for part of the day for a sleep?

No no stable, but he has recently moved to a new bit of field which is a bit of a weird bit, next to a bank and a bit small and his companion has found it spooky so is maybe not letting him rest (opening it up with strip grazing but it’s taking some time) plus the ground has gone hard since he went in there. I can move him in with the EMS horse who has 24/7 access to the sand arena whereas this horse has been on 24/7 turnout for last few weeks.

Think my horses are aiming for record vets bills this year!

 

[Sossigpoker]

Sleep deprivation normally manifests by the front legs buckling rather than back end.
The first episode you could put down the horse basically wanting to stretch himself more , bit like when you wake up in the morning and do some general arm stretches while yawning type of thing.
The other two sound like he might not be aware if his back end which unfortunately sounds like "wobblers" . The only way to diagnose it is via a neck x Ray so I'd be inclined to go for that. These "tests" that you can do like the tail pull and backing up are pretty useless.

 

[BBP]

Sleep deprivation normally manifests by the front legs buckling rather than back end.
The first episode you could put down the horse basically wanting to stretch himself more , bit like when you wake up in the morning and do some general arm stretches while yawning type of thing.
The other two sound like he might not be aware if his back end which unfortunately sounds like "wobblers" . The only way to diagnose it is via a neck x Ray so I'd be inclined to go for that. These "tests" that you can do like the tail pull and backing up are pretty useless.

He had the full remit of tests 2 years ago including full X-rays so at least we have something to compare it to (I used the tail pull example as I could almost pull him over 2 years ago and now he is pretty robust, but I appreciate that isn’t diagnostic in itself)

 

[Sossigpoker]

He had the full remit of tests 2 years ago including full X-rays so at least we have something to compare it to (I used the tail pull example as I could almost pull him over 2 years ago and now he is pretty robust, but I appreciate that isn’t diagnostic in itself)

Did he have a neck x Ray?

 

[Sossigpoker]

Mine was fine with tail pull but had such a bad cervical compression (wobbler ) that he was PTS. These "tests" really don't mean anything.

 

[BBP]

Did he have a neck x Ray?

Yep, I pushed really hard for it as vets didn’t think it was necessary based on the other tests, but I was so sure he had a neuro problem (he was having trouble getting up at the time). X rays were all good, but ultrasound showed the problem to be ligament damage in his back at that time.

 

[SEL]

Could it be the same ligament causing problems now?

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I would call the vet to discuss and / or visit. My first thought was sleep deprivation but your examples don't really sound like it, especially number one. I hope the vet finds something easily fixed.

 

[shortstuff99]

Doesn't he have a form of PSSM? Could be that flaring up.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Yep, I pushed really hard for it as vets didn’t think it was necessary based on the other tests, but I was so sure he had a neuro problem (he was having trouble getting up at the time). X rays were all good, but ultrasound showed the problem to be ligament damage in his back at that time.

I suspect it is the ligament issue then. Glad the neck x Ray is done, it's scary how many vets rely on those "tests " instead.
Definitely worth getting back in touch with the vet again.

 

[meleeka]

I had one that had arthritis in his stifle
that caused him to look like he was swaying. Might be worth a bute trial?

 

[BBP]

Doesn't he have a form of PSSM? Could be that flaring up.

He has RER, but it doesn’t seem like that at all, he is super relaxed when it happens and his RER is stress triggered. It’s very odd.

 

[BBP]

Could it be the same ligament causing problems now?

Possibly, although as I said all his reflex tests are way stronger since then (as in he isn’t so weak) But worth looking at. it’s made me wonder if he isn’t liking getting up on the hard ground as previously he was using his front end to ‘pull’ himself up rather than pushing from behind and maybe he feels like he can’t do that on hard ground. He has been getting up fine in the arena.

 

[BBP]

I suspect it is the ligament issue then. Glad the neck x Ray is done, it's scary how many vets rely on those "tests " instead.
Definitely worth getting back in touch with the vet again.

Yep I agree. With his sarcoids I already feel I have limited time with him, so I could do without him finding new ways to be broken. He is meant to be living his best life. In general he is absolutely full of himself. He did have a mad half hour in the arena last week, I can’t remember if that was before or after this stuff started.

 

[rabatsa]

I had one with sleep deprivation and his first seen symptom was swaying during a saddle fitting session.

 

[brighteyes]

Interesting, and somewhat concerning. Poor lad doesn't seem to be able to catch a break. What's RER? And how old is he?

We have one with 'mild' wobblers - diagnosed during a full lameness work up by the pull test followed by neck x-rays, but also known KS. He's having an op next month for that and gel in his hocks but apart from being cold-backed once he muscled up, there was nothing to cause us any concern. Different symptoms, clearly, and been ongoing with medication but so far no other locomotion anomalies.

 

[BBP]

Interesting, and somewhat concerning. Poor lad doesn't seem to be able to catch a break. What's RER? And how old is he?

We have one with 'mild' wobblers - diagnosed during a full lameness work up by the pull test followed by neck x-rays, but also known KS. He's having an op next month for that and gel in his hocks but apart from being cold-backed once he muscled up, there was nothing to cause us any concern. Different symptoms, clearly, and been ongoing with medication but so far no other locomotion anomalies.

RER is recurrent exertional rhabdomyolysis. People irritatingly classify it as a form of PSSM but that’s misleading as it has absolutely zero to do with glycogen/polysaccharides. It’s a fault in how the horse regulates calcium release, often under stress they release calcium too readily signalling the muscle sarcomeres to contract excessively and it can block magnesium receptors (I haven’t thought about describing it for years so my details may be wrong)

He will be 17 in a couple of weeks. You’re absolutely right, he can’t catch a break (other than that he has never had to earn his keep in any way). They aren’t big staggers but enough. It’s so frustrating as he seems super happy at the moment.