Thoughts on Flair in saddles?

measles

measles

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I have been offered a friend's GP saddle and I'm considering buying it from her but it has Flair and I've never had one with that in before. If you have ridden in one with Flair before how did the horse go in it? I'm most concerned about how they are for the horse and any maintenance or topping up required.

Thanks :)
 
I've had a flair saddle for years - I think we were one of the first and our comments were in their testimonials folder for quite a while. The flair I had fitted is 11 years old now and still usable. I did advanced level endurance in it.

A few comments:
- They do suit some styles of saddle better than others. IMO, better in saddles with bigger fatter panels. I had it fitted in an Ideal H&C and an arabian saddle co solstice. It was better in the solstice as it had fatter panels.
- They don't make a poorly fitting saddle fit. If the saddle doesn't fit well enough, you'll end up with pressure from either the points of the tree or the stirrup bars, or even friction from the saddle skirts
- I found it worked best with a looser girth.
- Some horses love them, some horses hate them. Your horse will tell you instantly if he is happy.
- I think I've only had mine adjusted once. H put on so much topline in his first Flaired saddle I had to replace it within 12 months and get a wider one. The second saddle lasted him the rest of his career - he put on so much topline again the fit did get a bit borderline so I had to have a bit of air taken out of it to allow a bit more width.
- I also found mine worked best with a sheepskin numnah under it - it meant every bit of the saddle that touched his back was soft and pliable.

Since he's been semi-retired I've mainly used my treeless as it's easier to transport and takes more abuse than treed saddles, but I've still got the Flaired saddle and it does still get some use as it fits one of my others too. If I were using a treed saddle, one with flair would be my first choice.
 
I had Flair fitted to my event saddle in 1999. Great system, only had to have it adjusted once and that's because someone had fiddled with the bungs on the tubes :mad: Horse instantly went much better in it and have never had any problems with rubbing etc. Have also got a Korrector pad, which I've used on numerous horses/ponies and saddles :D
 
I have a WOW saddle, which obviously has flair. Started with an extra narrow headplate (-1) now in a medium wide (3). So gone up 4 widths since he's had the flair due to more topline. Luckily the WOW can just be adjusted - if it was a normal saddle fitted with flair, I'd have had a lot of money spent on new wider saddles!
 
I had a flair ideal jessica dressage saddle on my cob and loved it, certainly seemed to solve our bounce problem (he is v short coupled and welsh ;)) unfortunately he muscled up in it and it got too narrow. Was very pleased with it though.
 
I have a Wow - which I love (and madam has gone from a size 0 (narrow) to a size 4 (x wide) in less than 12 months in it too!!) BUT I personally don't like the Flair (madam didn't mind it though) having been anal enough to take my saddle apart and have a good look at the mechanics of it. So how much of the topline has come from the saddle design, fit and adjustability rather than the flocking is debateable imo...

More than happy to show pics of what the Flair actually is and how it works (which lead to me stripping it out and replacing it with memory foam) for anyone interested but would prefer to do it by PM as not sure how appropriate it would be for open forum.
 
Ginn, i'd like to see that, please.
my Master Saddler (who does the Team GB horses) told me recently that he has now found that 'half and half' is best for most horses - Flair panel at the front, but normal foam or flocking at the back, because horses' muscle variation occurs mostly at the front. I found this very interesting.
 
Horses either love it or hate it. I have a wow and really like it. My new boy was slightly cold backed when I tried him but in the wow he doesn't even show any signs of being cold backed anymore. Plus what others have said about muscling up is true too :)
 
kerilli said:
Ginn, i'd like to see that, please.
my Master Saddler (who does the Team GB horses) told me recently that he has now found that 'half and half' is best for most horses - Flair panel at the front, but normal foam or flocking at the back, because horses' muscle variation occurs mostly at the front. I found this very interesting.
Click to expand...

Kerilli and Measles - have pm'd you :)

My only hesitation with half and half flocking ^^^ is that somewhere you have a "joint" between the two materials. I found with the Flair that where there were 2 bags this was V. obvious and did indeed create a sore spot on Till's back. I think a compromise would be a uniform layer of compliant foam with sufficent density and/or thickness that a "lump", e.g. a marble, could not be felt through it with say 80kg acting down on it, and then a Flair type system placed between the foam and the seat at the front to make small tweaks. I think though if you did this the length of the tubes, their location and the material from which the air bags are constructed will need altering and the airbags would need to be more tapered and less bulky where it stops. I also think it would be essential that where the airbag position stopped would have to be carefully considered so as that it doesn't lie directly under the center of gravity of the rider....


And enough waffle!!
 
thanks Ginn, that confirms my suspicions about the overlapping areas, pressure areas, etc. i much prefer a lining to the panels that is absolutely consistent the whole way across. i believe they are doing experiments with Prolite and similar products in panels now. i'm still not 100% sure about latex cf wool flocked panels... i think that if the latex is just right, at least it won't ever move or go lumpy, but that the wool can be shaped better... what are your thoughts on this, please? thankyou.
 
Flair is an interesting one and down to preference

I use my wow with thick padding, because that prevents any lumps and bumps from the relatively thin layer of foam and leather between horse and air bags

However the grey boys loves it, any other saddle and he humps and looks unhappy and will even appear unlevel to get it off his back (includes bates, amerigo, style and Henri De Rivel)

So obviously he has decided that its most comfy for him, his brother on the other hand couldn't really give a toss what is on his back!!

Personally I like it from a fit point of view, but wasn't so fond of it for activities involving me leaning out. However teamed with a decent breastplate and a pro choice girth its fine for pegging
 
Used to have an old Albion dressage saddle that had it fitted before I bought it - old horse loved it. He is typical TB so can appear tense but with this saddle he really started to swing along and his back felt so much freer. Now he is retired from competing and unfortunately saddle did not fit new horse so it was traded in. Don't think new horse would bother what flocking was - he really is not the sensitive sort!
 
kerilli said:
i much prefer a lining to the panels that is absolutely consistent the whole way across. i believe they are doing experiments with Prolite and similar products in panels now. i'm still not 100% sure about latex cf wool flocked panels... i think that if the latex is just right, at least it won't ever move or go lumpy, but that the wool can be shaped better... what are your thoughts on this, please? thankyou.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that at the moment the "perfect" saddle does not exist so somewhere something is compromised. For me THE most important factor is a uniform load bearing surface which is compliant with shock absorption, moulds or conforms to the shape of the horses back but is not so stiff that it does not allow for changes in muscle shape and size and enable the muscles to contract and relax freely. Of course the shape of the tree and shape, position and load-bearing area of the panels and tree must also conform to the shape of the horses back. I suppose it therefore comes down to what material best meets all these demands without over compromising the saddles adjustability. My critism of considerably more adjustable flocking systems is that you compromise the uniformity of the panels and introduce a greater risk of developing "flock" related pressure points.

For me adjustability IS significant but it is significant in a way which must enable me to widen/narrow the saddle as madam muscles. The basic panel and tree shape however conform to her musculo-skeletal frame and although I recognise that there may come a time that this changes I also understand that no amount of flocking adjustments will correct for this so whatever saddle she has will need changing when/if this time comes. I find subtle changes in the pad I use under her saddle (polypad/sheepskin/thin cotton/prolite/etc.) will make sufficiently subtle changes in the fit of the saddle for any given gullet width.

Of course if money was no object then I may have been in a position to explore other options but even then I'm not sure there would be a product on the market which would exactly meet my ideals :rolleyes:
 
Airbag overlap is an issue with many horses, I have owned sevreal who got a lump because of it after a vigorous up and downhill hack. I use a geleze under the saddle on those horses, which is thin enough not to affect the fit and works brilliantly.

I love Flair and would always have it in the back as well, because horses will often muscle up significantly behind the saddle and need the air taking out, otherwise, your only option is to narrow the front to balance the saddle and that puts you too far off the horse and riding on a trampoline.

I understand that Sue Carson now regularly supplies saddles with air in front and flock at the back and I thought it was an interesting idea for those who find air too bouncy.
 
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