Thoughts on horses having no forage overnight?

Agggh! This thread has made me feel super guilty. Just went out the back to throw some hay into my two mini terrors. They were equally surprised and delighted. Told the OH that I thought I heard something so he wouldn't think I was mad going out at 1am in the rain in my pyjamas to feed fat ponies. Rather spoiled my cunning deception by carrying half a bale back into the kitchen on my clothes.
 
It must be worth a try,just give your pony unlimited hay and I know they will be greedy at first but after a few days they might regulate themselves because food would not be such an issue.I cant think of anything worse than being hungry all the time.I know it wont work for all ponies but it will work for some.They do know because we all know that when the grass comes through they leave any hay that maybe around.
 
I have worked or kept horses in many professional yards over the past 40 tears and most give last feed and hay (armful, or haynet) at 5pm and morning feed/hay 8.30am. I never saw any horses get ill/colic because of their regime. They get to know their routine. The grooms need a life too!
 
I have a Welsh D and feed ad lib haylage from the floor. He is stabled at night during winter (although with the rubbish weather we've been having he is only out from about 10am-4.30pm). I have always fed from the floor but if he has been tied up with a net, he attacks it like he's possessed! In the stable he doesn't rush, takes his time and there is always some left in the morning. His weight is perfect at the moment - he is only rugged when the weather is at its worst and hasn't even been exercised for a while due to my health issues. He gets some fibre nuts in a ball but nothing else and is doing great. I often go down later in the evenings to top up if needed and have noticed that the ones with haynets have nothing left, but the ones fed from things like haybars etc have plenty.
 
stormox said:
I have worked or kept horses in many professional yards over the past 40 tears and most give last feed and hay (armful, or haynet) at 5pm and morning feed/hay 8.30am. I never saw any horses get ill/colic because of their regime. They get to know their routine. The grooms need a life too!
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so if the horse gets feed and hay, hopefully someone has very large arms, at 5pm then by 8pm latest it will all have gone. So the horse is standing without forage for 12.5 hours.

I must be the only one who finds this totally unacceptable. Grooms may need a life but so does the horse and to me 12.5 hours of starvation is not an acceptable life.
 
paddy555 said:
so if the horse gets feed and hay, hopefully someone has very large arms, at 5pm then by 8pm latest it will all have gone. So the horse is standing without forage for 12.5 hours.

I must be the only one who finds this totally unacceptable. Grooms may need a life but so does the horse and to me 12.5 hours of starvation is not an acceptable life.
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I also find it totally unacceptable, mine get either enough to last them all night or an extra ration at late checks, I worked on yards many years ago and someone always did a late check as routine to check rugs, hay and ensure they had not tipped over their water, skipping out is too much to expect in a big yard, I have found colicking horses at late checks, rugs that have slipped and waters knocked over, I would feel very uncomfortable leaving my horses at 5pm without popping out later to check them, it is a very long night with no water, no hay, colic or a rug half off, by checking last thing at least the time when they may have problems is reduced to 7-8 hours rather than over 12.
 
It's not even about having a life. It's not rocket science, if the horse has nothing in the morning keep giving it more last time you're there until it has some left in the morning.

All of my horses are fed adlib hay without restriction.

None of them are obese. Only the ones that aren't in work get slightly rounder but still totally acceptable weights.
 
Ours get hay at 5pm as pointed out some livery owners withhold it till after riding so the horses still get it around 7pm - 7.30pm It is not adlib which is why they withhold it till ridden. I spread mine out 5pm and 9 or 10pm. No horse on this yard has ever had colic or ulcers because of it of non adlib and running out of hay till morning.
 
stormox said:
I have worked or kept horses in many professional yards over the past 40 tears and most give last feed and hay (armful, or haynet) at 5pm and morning feed/hay 8.30am. I never saw any horses get ill/colic because of their regime. They get to know their routine. The grooms need a life too!
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I'm with you on this subject - years back this was never thought of as an issue as riding school horses @ PF -KEC and SLR always ran out by morning and we never lost or had one colic/ulcers because of it.
 
I like to give mine access to forage at all times. I currently have fatties (one more so than the other) and they are on a fairly strict hay ration, but I bed on straw and put extra slices in for them to eat so they are never without food. I prefer to feed hay from the floor, although at the moment they are on a net with the 'eating' straw in a pile underneath the net.

We have always fed in this way, with a wide variety of horses and ponies. We have never had a colic or one with ulcers. I have no idea if there is any connection or if we have just been very lucky.
 
It would be interesting to do a poll, how many yards have horses that crib, often a sign of ulcers even if not investigated so not proven, if any have horses that get colic on more than a one off occasion, it is all very well saying that years ago horses never got ulcers but we have no idea whether they actually did but were not tested as it was an unknown problem.

I certainly remember seeing some horses cribbing in most yards I worked on, I remember dealing with difficult horses, "cold backed", some were bad tempered, mine nowadays have no stable vices, are all sweet natured and, touching wood, none of my current horses have had colic apart from my sec a who is at times more restricted and she has had a couple of gassy type colics which resolved quickly without veterinary treatment.

I do think there is a connection between underfeeding forage and ulcers/ colic and anyone who thinks it acceptable to leave a horse for hours without anything to eat is putting their horse at risk, although they may be lucky and get away with it.
 
HGA-12 said:
I'm with you on this subject - years back this was never thought of as an issue as riding school horses @ PF -KEC and SLR always ran out by morning and we never lost or had one colic/ulcers because of it.
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And years ago most, if niot all horses were bedded on straw, so running out of forage was not an issue - they just nibbled on their straw beds.
I cannot understand why any-one thinks it acceptable to leave a horse in a stable for more than 12 hours, without checking it, regardless of how much it has available to eat. We do our last checks about 11.30-midnight, topping up hay, checking water hasn't got anythng revolting in it, making sure that all is well. We have called the emergency vet out after the last check more than once - imagine what would have happened if those hoirses had been left until morning - doesn't bear thinking about!
 
HGA-12 said:
I'm with you on this subject - years back this was never thought of as an issue as riding school horses @ PF -KEC and SLR always ran out by morning and we never lost or had one colic/ulcers because of it.
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Im not saying its right to give last hay net at 5pm- my own horse gets hay at 10pm and 7am, and ad-lib in between -but hes at home! Im just saying that at a lot of professional yards that is their routine, and the horses dont develop vices or chew things......but their horses are probably worked a lot harder than most leisure horses these days.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
And years ago most, if niot all horses were bedded on straw, so running out of forage was not an issue - they just nibbled on their straw beds.
I cannot understand why any-one thinks it acceptable to leave a horse in a stable for more than 12 hours, without checking it, regardless of how much it has available to eat. We do our last checks about 11.30-midnight, topping up hay, checking water hasn't got anythng revolting in it, making sure that all is well. We have called the emergency vet out after the last check more than once - imagine what would have happened if those hoirses had been left until morning - doesn't bear thinking about!
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Your entitled to your views as we all are, I do my last checks at 9.30pm-10pm As long as all the horses are well we don't disturb them. We have also called vets out at ungodly hours, all were nothing to do with lack of forage issues. We do not top up hay as most still are munching, they are left then to the night.


Some people's set up is not ideal and horses are left and either no late night checks or no one living on the yard so if injury occurs then who ever is first comes in the am finds the issue in the morning. Some owners live miles away from DIY yard and things may get overlooked, no it is not ideal but it happens.


Who actually thinks it is unacceptable to leave a horse 12 + without food?? Most of livery owners leave yards around 8 ish (broad speck) if the yard owners check horses say 10pm then start in the am 6.30am that is under 12 hours.


It is down to the individual and their circumstances - if the horse is fed early or late. DIY yards it is different as allot of the time there is no late night checks.
 
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HGA-12 said:
Who actually thinks it is unacceptable to leave a horse 12 + without food?? Most of livery owners leave yards around 8 ish (broad speck) if the yard owners check horses say 10pm then start in the am 6.30am that is under 12 hours.
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I think it is unacceptable. Why can they not be given ad lib hay/straw etc which would keep them going all night.?
 
paddy555 said:
I think it is unacceptable. Why can they not be given ad lib hay/straw etc which would keep them going all night.?
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Because maybe the yard workings does not offer ad lib.


We have our reasons we don't and never will offer ad lib hay - and a yard does not have to justify why they don't nor does a individual owner.
 
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Been reading this thread with interest over the last day or so. I have to admit it has never occurred to me to feed adlib in the past. I have had a horse in both part livery (last net 5pm toped up by me if at yard 8pm), DIY grass - haylage from ground with grass in winter and now at home. I feed a per animals requirements - so the fat little welsh has 1 section all night if in. TB a big net. I now favour as much turnout as possible - munching grass most of the time must reduce the risk of all colic/ulcers. Also a natural way to control weight that can be regulated with restricted or suplimented depending on condition.

An ideal world all horses would be checked late night and then done early in am but that is not always practical. Mine have never suffered in the various routines. I used to live 40 mins from diy yard so last check was often 4pm in winter and first 8 am. Yes something could happen but it can also happen 10 mins after a 10pm check - down to luck.
 
There is no one on our yard overnight. I cross everything and pray. My 2 have ample hay always some left plus they are on straw. I do hang about whilst they eat their bucket feed, but after that it is In the lap of the Gods.
 
respectedpony said:
It must be worth a try,just give your pony unlimited hay and I know they will be greedy at first but after a few days they might regulate themselves because food would not be such an issue.I cant think of anything worse than being hungry all the time.I know it wont work for all ponies but it will work for some.They do know because we all know that when the grass comes through they leave any hay that maybe around.
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One if the symptoms of a horse that has EMS is that it's always hungry so although your theory might work for some, it won't work for those cases. I know my EMS horse will eat until everything has gone whereas my other horse doesn't.
 
That's just mean.

Mine has a 22lb (something like 10kg or 1.5 stone) net of haylage overnight (lighter if its hay but still packed in til i can barely close the top) - put in at about 7.30pm and I go up about 6.30am. He usually has some left but if he didn't, I'd give him more. It's not his fault he's standing in all night so why should he suffer being hungry? Plus he's a TB so five minutes without nibbles and he looks like a washing line.
 
It's entirely unacceptable for horses to be left twelve hours without food .
But that's different to being left twelve hours without feeding it's perfectly possible to put enough forage in a stable to last 24 hours .
We did this recently when I broke my finger the girls put in enough forage to last a day each morning when they did the yard .
 
I have a good doer. There is no way I can feed ad lib as she would be very overweight and lamanitic.
At the moment she is going out about 7am and coming in at about 2pm to a 1kg double net of hay.

She then has a ball of pony nuts, a small feed and a further 3kg of hay in a greedy feeder in the evening.

She is bedded on straw which she eats in between times.

She is only in light work due to recent loss of sharer and lack of time and bad weather, but is slightly overweight if anything. I would definitely like to get a fair bit more off her before spring!
 
paddy555 said:
this.
My horses are stabled at nights and in for a lot of the daytime in this weather as well. They have hay (in nets) constantly available. At night they have a large bin of hay plus a large haynet. They dont get fat on it and they dont eat constantly. There is always hay left in the morning which I use to feed the ponies.
The horses don't binge, as it is there all the time they find it boring. I will go and feed one horse his hay shortly and he will not even bother to come and look at it. He will be standing asleep. In a couple of hours he will wander over and start eating. Having spent a night living in the stables this week I could see they don't binge, they are calm and laid back about the hay. By 2am they had loads left.

They don't binge or overeat as they know they will never be short. There is no "famine" mentality.
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My horses are similar. I have haybars, and I put a couple of large sections in a day. They dont eat exactly the same amount each day, and I'm aiming for some left in the morning. Mostly there is some left, occasionally they clean the haybars out. Mine arent fat. I've not yet needed to up their winter feeds from summer.

I also think as much hay as possible is the cheapest and healthiest way to feed.

I aim for my horses never to run out, but try not have loads left to go stale (I do think hay in an in use stable for a long time absorbs ammonia smells etc)
 
The Anticob is one of those greedy beasts that sticks his head into his haylage pile and stays there until it's gone. Doesn't even come up for air, so I bought a very small holed net (loathe haynets, but it was getting ridiculous!) to try to slow him down a bit. Haynet now has large holes in it, but...

I have cured the problem! I have managed to source some organic meadow haylage, it is very dry and there is no ryegrass in it at all. So, big pile on the floor and no gorging. There is always some left over and the hairy blob is losing weight.

I think it must be like swapping sweeties for brown rice - not yummy, but you'll eat it if you are hungry enough!

Just to add, all of mine are fed ad-lib, one of them would cheerfully take your face off if he gets hungry, so he has more than enough for safety reasons, the other is a very poor-doer and I would love him to eat more than he does.
 
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Yes I would be concerned too. Horses are designed to eat constantly small ammounts of forage.

Ours are netted at around half six, but as I am always there after this time with my own horse I can ensure that he has a large supply left for him. If I leave him much before five at night at the weekends for example, I will leave him two small nets and a large one, othewise he gets a large net weighing about 9KG and another about 4KG. He weighs around 680KG.

In addition he has two nets during the day at around 9am and 2pm of 4KG each.

One yard I was at they always netted around 10pm. The other yard I was at the Y.O would net around 11.30pm on his return from the pub! :)
 
I do not by any stretch of the imagination agree with a horse going without forage for 12 hours however, although ad-lib hay is the ideal scenario for horses to have, there is no way on Earth my girl could have that. She would eat and eat and eat everything in sight until she burst (Or got laminitis). It would be irresponsible for me, as her owner who knows exactly what her appetite and metabolism are like to allow her to gorge herself on ad-lib hay as she would be obese, laminitic and thoroughly unhappy. She has enough hay to last her until the early hours and is turned out at around 8-9am after having breakfast at 7-7:30am. It would be far more cruel for me to allow her to have access to ad-lib hay and for her to get disgustingly obese than it is for her to go without forage for a few hours (Where she probably sleeps anyway). Sometimes rules are made to be broken and you have to be cruel to be kind - these are horses after all, there are no one size fits all rules that work for every animal and as we humans are, they are individuals too and you cannot expect to allow an 11.2hh pony the same amount of grazing as a 15.2hh TB or Irish type and for one of them not to suffer ill effects.
 
I think a lot of people on this post are getting confused between ad lib hay/haylage and ad lib forage. Nobody is suggesting you feed your good doers ad lib hay until they burst/get dangerously fat, but forage does not need to mean hay or haylage. Good doer or not, I don't believe it's right for a horse to be standing for hours on end with nothing to chew on.
 
atropa said:
I think a lot of people on this post are getting confused between ad lib hay/haylage and ad lib forage. Nobody is suggesting you feed your good doers ad lib hay until they burst/get dangerously fat, but forage does not need to mean hay or haylage. Good doer or not, I don't believe it's right for a horse to be standing for hours on end with nothing to chew on.
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Indeed! Mine gets very limited forage hay wise, but hes never without forage of some sort.
 
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