Thoughts on obesity and how to prevent it...

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BeachBreaker

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Controversial subject I know but...I have to write an assignment on clinical obesity. The lecturer is looking for something particularly focusing on various preventative measures and more opinion rather than a list of facts about the disorder. So...has anyone had any first hand experience dealing with obese animals of their own or maybe on yard/owned by a friend. Doesn't necessarily have to be horses but what I really want to know is a) how did you combat/treat the problem and encourage the animal to slim down and b) how best do you think this growing issue could be prevented. In your opinion is it a greater level of education, pre formulated rations (Jenny Craig for animals!), compulsory veterinary checks on a semi-regular basis or something else which is required. If money was no object how would you set about combating obesity?

No doubt this thread will start an 'interesting' discussion but I would like to say that any ideas at all, however 'out-there' or 'not the norm' would be REALLY appreciated. As I say this is solely for an assignment and I am just trying to gather some genuine opinions of the people whose animals are potentially affected. Thanks in advance...looking forward to hearing your opinions!
 
I have a native mare that would be obese if not cared for appropriately.

I use a track system to reduce grazing, which means she has to move more and water is at the opposite end to food and shelter. I also graze sheep to keep the pasture in check, although it is practically mud at the moment! I don't use nitrogen fertilisers.

I think the variety of grass grown in the uk has a lot to answer for, much of it is highly fertilised single species, a good traditional grass meadow with lots of species is hard to find nowadays which plays a huge part ime.

Feed wise, I hate how owners are encouraged to 'feed' obesity, with products aimed at weight loss, high fibre low calorie products are needed, but the main factor I feel is over feeding and lack of exercise.

I tend to feed high fibre products such as chaff/fast fibre/high fibre horsehage to make up for the deficit in grazing. If a supplement is needed I feed a powdered one rather than a balancer, which I feel is lower calorie.

Weighing feedstuffs is important too, I find that ad lib just doesn't suit some horses and making sure fibre is fed from small holed nets to slow down intake to prevent the horse being stood with nothing for long periods.

Exercise is also important, so I try to do something most days.

If money was no object I'd install a proper 'paddock paradise' system.:) I think it was Peter Laidley who said that horses would do well in an old quarry with a couple of mountian lions to chase them round :D I think that environment plays a huge part, when you look at zoos they cater for their animals by trying to recreate their natural environment. We take horses from their native moorland/deserts and stick them on a contained grass paddock which is like eating cream cakes all day for some.

I think the only way to tackle the rising obesity problem is through education, such as the WHW is highlighting. ETA:- I also think that learning to condition score and monitor weight is important and seeing fewer obese animals in the showring helps! This is also a good link tracking the progress of an overweight Icelandic:- http://www.icelandichorses.co.uk/Dieting an obese horse.htm
 
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Vallin on here took on a (very) fat mare. I don't know how she got weight off her but I'm sure she wouldn't mind you asking directly as she is very friendly. The pictures charting her progress are really interesting I think :)
 
I got over a hundred kilos off our fatty will post later when I have time to think and I am not just avoiding housework.
 
Touchstone - wow, thanks for all the great ideas! What you say about taking horse's from their natural environment and making no effort to recreate any aspect of what would be their normal lifestyle is so true! With regards to education, do you think that if clinics were offered maybe free of charge by veterinary practices or larger yards to raise awareness of proper condition scoring methods and the risks of obesity that people would actually attend? Or is the real problem that owners of obese animals are genuinely oblivious to the fact and therefore unwilling to learn?

Jesstickle - thanks, I will look at some of her posts :)

Goldenstar - I will keep an eye out for your post, thanks :)
 
I've got a fatty, anyone know where i could get a mountain lion?

Tickles me to think of her thinning down after spending the day avoiding the lion, perhaps that's the way to go :-)
 
HazyXmas said:
I've got a fatty, anyone know where i could get a mountain lion?

Tickles me to think of her thinning down after spending the day avoiding the lion, perhaps that's the way to go :-)
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haha...it sounds like a good idea, although one with it's teeth removed might be a better option!

If you don't mind me asking...when you say you have a 'fatty', what exactly do you mean? If you had to condition score where would she lie, also what type, age etc? Is it a problem you've been dealing with for some time and if so, are you making any particular efforts to combat the weight? If any free help was provided by a vet or feed company to develop a weight loss program would you find this useful or just a bit of an intrusion? Has it had any effects on the horse's health in general? Sorry to be nosey, just genuinely interested.
 
I think a lot of it is lack of knowledge. More disposable income now means more people who may lack experience have the opportunity to own horses without necessarily having back up.
The price of land means many that lots of good doers eg natives & cobs are now stabled a lot, when in the past they would have lost weight wintering out.
Richer grazing-many horses are now kept on rich dairy pasture rather than sparse grazing. Smaller paddocks rather than roaming larger fields.
Busier lives, less time to exercise horses.
General widespread tendencies to be overweight. If you, your family, your dog & cat are all overweight, your less likely to be bothered your horse is too.
Best way is information, & would probably help if more lean horses were in magazines. It's often showing ones, lean competition horses are action shots, so its harder to notice the more healthy condition of an eventer compared to a bigger show champion. So the eye gets used to extra weight as the norm.
 
littlelegs said:
Best way is information, & would probably help if more lean horses were in magazines. It's often showing ones, lean competition horses are action shots, so its harder to notice the more healthy condition of an eventer compared to a bigger show champion. So the eye gets used to extra weight as the norm.
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Very true! Really helpful points, thank you so much :)
 
My opinions on obesity are that it is more dangerous than being slightly underweight.

A couple of kgs over and I don't get snooty about it at all, because it is all very much personal opinnion. But when a horse is dramatically overweight and owners think it is 'ok because he's better of that way' and have no plan in place to reduce weight, that annoys me.

I have one who can put on weight just looking at food. I try to exercise him regularly and avoid over feeding him. (Having problems with behaviour and lunging, but getting there). When grass is coming through like it is, he goes out for minimal periods on a strip grazing rota in the new paddocks and then spends the rest of the day and night in the bare paddock with hay.

If money were no object, I wouldn't change a lot. I think a lot of obesity cases could be solved through careful ownership more than buying solutions.
 
GG Bells said:
If money were no object, I wouldn't change a lot. I think a lot of obesity cases could be solved through careful ownership more than buying solutions.
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Not necessarily 'buying solutions' but on a wider scale do you think anything could be done. You say that careful ownership is the answer, which is undoubtedly true, but there is clearly still an ongoing issue. Would you have any ideas as to how to promote the management techniques which you clearly carry out extremely well yourself because at the moment people either don't care or don't have a clue!
 
BeachBreaker said:
Not necessarily 'buying solutions' but on a wider scale do you think anything could be done. You say that careful ownership is the answer, which is undoubtedly true, but there is clearly still an ongoing issue. Would you have any ideas as to how to promote the management techniques which you clearly carry out extremely well yourself because at the moment people either don't care or don't have a clue!
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I think LittleLegs makes a good point about the availability of information. I don't know how best this could be communicated to the general horsey population, perhaps through vets? Could it be introduced that the vet notes when a horse is looking obese and offer support or guidance if they don't already? Perhaps farriers, too could discuss issues that weight can have on the horse. Magazines also could be a good way of reaching out to people.

Just want to add- I don't think my horses are by any means perfect, so I don't want to come across as a know it all! I just have my ways and my beliefs and I stick to them. :o
 
I like to keep mine out 24/7 with a shelter, however they use the shelter more in summer to get away from flies than they do for bad weather. My field is what some would call "crap grass", I keep poisonous plants out but I am not so bothered if thistles and nettle grow here and there, I only feed hay if they drop too much weight. I am always surprized why some folk feed fat horses hay when they still have too much grass anyway !
I also think feed companies have a lot to be blamed for, if I fed the recommended amount of feed to any of mine they would be obese within 3 months. I moved my horses to a new field a few years ago closer to home, it has hills and almost what I could call a valley in the one corner. But I must say my horses have thrived there and have got better muscle tone due to it, even the companion looks fit. :D
 
touchstone said:
I have a native mare that would be obese if not cared for appropriately.

I use a track system to reduce grazing, which means she has to move more and water is at the opposite end to food and shelter. I also graze sheep to keep the pasture in check, although it is practically mud at the moment! I don't use nitrogen fertilisers.
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A track system has made a huge amount of difference in keeping the weight off my retired cob and is a relativley easy thing to do. Doesn't have to be a perfect track system, mine is only 2 sides of the field, but with water at one end, feed & Shelter the other it really works.

Obviousy only part of the solution, but should be adopted more widely IMO, even if it just became the norm to make field sizes more long and thin rather than square shaped.
 
I think equine obesity is one of the biggest welfare concerns in the UK.

I also think that a number of owners of obese animals are deluding themselves into believing they are not obese - much as 'fat' is now seen as 'normal' for a lot of people. There's rarely any shock value any more :(

It's sad but people will often post pictures of obese animals up here, and yet people are attacked for suggesting it (even if worded nicely which it isn't always :D) may be fat. Yet if someone puts up a picture of an emaciated or even skinny horses there is generalised horror.

I deliberately posted pictures in a thread a year or so ago, of an elderly tbx who was clipped out, turned out in the day in a fairly muddy grass-free field with no hard feed and not ad lib forage either. Cue lots of posts about how much he should be fed and that he looked 'lean'. Actually it was my old horse who is a registered wb (though mostly tb) and who is an incredible good doer. He also was as close to perfect on condition scoring as you will find, especially for a horse in his 20s. It was an interesting experiment. A lot of people just don't know what a fit/healthy horse should look like!
 
I have a fatty at the moment I'd say he's a 4 on the scale, I'm getting it off him slowly. I've only owned him for 3 months, he was obese when I had him due to his novice owner keeping him stabled for 2years and feeding him. He was not ridden much in those 2 years either. We do a lot of hacking as the vet advised me to take it slowly and build up his fitness. He is only out for about 6 hours a day as our grass is old dairy pasture. He is fed haylage as he started to cough even on soaked hay. I use a trickle net so I can feed less and slow down his eating. He has no crest and only a small apple bum but a big belly. He's a 15.2 traditional cob.
 
GG Bells said:
Just want to add- I don't think my horses are by any means perfect, so I don't want to come across as a know it all! I just have my ways and my beliefs and I stick to them. :o
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You didn't come across like that at all! It's refreshing to hear somebody who recognizes when their animal is prone to a condition and does something to prevent it. I agree with everything you've said and it is definitely the responsibility of all these professions to try and get the message across...my real thought is, how much do people actually listen or WANT to do anything about it? Very few people must fail to follow through on the advice given to them by vets, farriers etc otherwise would there be such a large number of cases? I'm just really struggling to think how much more can be done than already has, it's awful, but is this a loosing battle?
 
I think that you could combat obesity in show animals by having a vet fat score the horses. Most showing classes the ride and confirmation judges award points. He could give them a penalty score depending on how fat they were. It would quickly penalise the really fat animals and encourage them to keep their animals slimmer.
 
I had a fatty. When I took him on he was obese and he wobbled when he walked. He had been out on good grass 24/7 with no exercise. Here he is when I first had him.

fat2-2.jpg


FatBoy-1.jpg


I moved him to a livery yard where he went on poorer grazing and was stabled for part of the day. Had hay and 2 meals - sniff of chaff - when others were fed. Started longlining every day and then eventually got a saddle and started riding / longlining every day. Had a friend hack him out for me as I was too nervous. He is my first horse.

He is now at a perfect weight (took 1 year to get him to ok weight) and is very fit after having him for 2.5 years. He now does endurance, Trec, cross country and jumping. He is probably the fittest horse on the yard.

His weight is now managed completely by exercise. He is worked 9 days out of 10, has 1 kg of Pure easy, haylage and turnout.

This is him now:
posing.jpg

HedgeIzzy.jpg


I think part of the problem is that people forget what horses are built to do - whether we think of that as being wild and walking miles to find safe grazing or as work horses, pulling ploughs or carrying people for miles. We think that 1 hour a day is hard work and feed them too much.

It's not rocket science - it is the same as why people are obese. Eat too much and do too little.
 
The_snoopster said:
I also think feed companies have a lot to be blamed for, if I fed the recommended amount of feed to any of mine they would be obese within 3 months. :D
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I would agree with this. I have just done a questionnaire with a feed company and they have come back saying I should double what I feed my boy.:eek:

If people take this advice as gospel, no wonder there are so many fat horses about.
 
The_snoopster - yes, i agree where feed companies are concerned. I also feed my boy a substantial amount less than the recommended values as he would be a whale otherwise! Hills in the paddock is a fab feature! Maybe something more horse owners should consider when looking for land?

canteron - i personally have never used a track system but it sounds great for keeping an older/retired/out of work horse moving around! do you think that people who do not implicate this are just not aware that it exists or just can't be bothered?

rhino - i totally agree. there seems to be a complete misconception of what overweight/underweight/ideal actually is...who is to blame for this i wonder? could it be due to obesity among people becoming much more accepted and the norm? did you find there was uproar when you posted your thread?

black_horse_white - great to see you're doing something about it and taking advice from the vet, good luck with getting the weight off of him. do you think that the previous owner would have benefited from any types of training/clinics regarding obesity and how to manage it or was she totally oblivious to the fact that he was overweight?

BigRed - I agree that condition scoring could be included as part of any routine check carried out by a vet. Showing is where it gets tricky and I do not have enough knowledge to properly comment. Yes, a deduction of points sounds a great idea, but how likely do you think it would be that the showing world would adopt such an idea? I have always been under the impression that in such classes the weight of the horse impacts quite heavily upon how it's conformation is viewed, where more often than not a 'plump' horse may be favored over a 'slight' horse. Again, I am not really knowledgeable to comment and no doubt once we move into the territory of showing that we be a whole different kettle of fish!
 
BeachBreaker said:
haha...it sounds like a good idea, although one with it's teeth removed might be a better option!

If you don't mind me asking...when you say you have a 'fatty', what exactly do you mean? If you had to condition score where would she lie, also what type, age etc? Is it a problem you've been dealing with for some time and if so, are you making any particular efforts to combat the weight? If any free help was provided by a vet or feed company to develop a weight loss program would you find this useful or just a bit of an intrusion? Has it had any effects on the horse's health in general? Sorry to be nosey, just genuinely interested.
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No, i don't mind you asking. She is a 7 yr old connemara who had an injury last year & that is part of the problem in that she's still not come back into 'full' work. I would say that she is approaching a condition score of 4 (on 1-5 scale, say 3.75 :-)) She is currently in at night from 6pm - 8am & out during the day on pretty poor, waterlogged grazing. She is hacked out 4 times a week for about an hour each time, this will include a couple of short canters. She will start faster work & poles later this month so will be burning a few more calories. She has two tiny 'pure feed' feeds for her supplements & a net of 4 hour soaked hay. I worry that she eats this within the first couple of hours, am actually just about to order a trickle net although she won't be happy about it as is already incredibly grumpy about being on a diet.
I personally would love to attend a vet talk on this subject, i've asked two different vets for advice but not found it particularly helpful although they say it's a massive problem!
 
tiga71 said:
I think part of the problem is that people forget what horses are built to do - whether we think of that as being wild and walking miles to find safe grazing or as work horses, pulling ploughs or carrying people for miles. We think that 1 hour a day is hard work and feed them too much.

It's not rocket science - it is the same as why people are obese. Eat too much and do too little.
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So true...what an incredible job you've done with your boy! He looks great in the recent pics. So I'm curious...he's your first horse...have you had much horsey/animal obesity experience previously or was this the first time you have had to manage it? If it's novice/first time owners who are unaware of this issue and how to handle it then how did you manage to combat it so well? Did you have any guidance from vets or friends or was it a management program you devised yourself?
 
HazyXmas said:
I personally would love to attend a vet talk on this subject, i've asked two different vets for advice but not found it particularly helpful although they say it's a massive problem!
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Why no help? Unwilling to talk extensively and devise a plan or information was just not up to par?
 
blimey tiga71 what a brilliant result ! well done.

I struggle with my chaps weight - stupidly my retired mare is the perfect weight and is a field ornament so does nothing wheras my gelding is a pig and is always carrying a little too much weight. The only time I got him to a really good weight was when I hunted him - literally only took him out half a dozen times and the weight fell off him, not through worry but because we did some "hard" work and he put the effort in as he loved it.

I really dont think most of us have any concept of what a "fit" horse looks like and also how much work they are able (and need) to do.

I also struggle as like most people I like my fields to look "nice" - green with grass not weeds and no mud - but this isnt the best option for the horses ! I make sure I dont fertilise and I dont feed anything apart from a low cal balancer. I dont over-rug - they have 24/7 turnout on arena but limited on grazing when need be and I try to exercise piggy gelding as much as possible.
 
tiga71 said:
I would agree with this. I have just done a questionnaire with a feed company and they have come back saying I should double what I feed my boy.:eek:

If people take this advice as gospel, no wonder there are so many fat horses about.
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Outrageous I know, I think the rapid questionnaires which devise a feeding program in minutes based on a few loosely answered questions is totally irresponsible. Do you think more could be done by feed companies?
 
meesha said:
I also struggle as like most people I like my fields to look "nice" - green with grass not weeds and no mud - but this isnt the best option for the horses ! I make sure I dont fertilise and I dont feed anything apart from a low cal balancer. I dont over-rug - they have 24/7 turnout on arena but limited on grazing when need be and I try to exercise piggy gelding as much as possible.
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Arena turnout...possibly something which should be encourage more? Not just to get horses off the grass but also to get those out of the stable who are in a lot of the time?
 
BeachBreaker said:
rhino - i totally agree. there seems to be a complete misconception of what overweight/underweight/ideal actually is...who is to blame for this i wonder? could it be due to obesity among people becoming much more accepted and the norm? did you find there was uproar when you posted your thread?
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Not uproar no, but it was interesting to hear how many people would advice feeding a veteran '2 scoops of veteran mix and alfa a' for example, when there was no issue with his weight. I don't believe in feeding for feeding's sake, I had said he was on a balancer + handful of chaff.

This is one of the pics - for a horse in his 20s who had been out of work for 3 or 4 months and was therefore lacking muscle (snow! :mad:)

DSCN3770-1.jpg


Obesity is a very emotive subject for a lot of people though, and I think farriers and vets would find it extremely difficult to broach the subject with them.
 
tiga71 said:
FatBoy-1.jpg

This is him now:
posing.jpg
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Brilliant transformation.He looks super now :)

I also get told my horse is 'lean' from time to time because you can see a hint of ribs. I think what is normal has been grossly distorted so that now over weight is what people see as healthy, obese is a bit fat and just right is often interpreted as too thin :eek:
 
I manage mine with yarding (large and varied yard btw.) and feeding a soaked hay based diet. Limited to no grazing depending on weather and season. Daily exercize as much as I have time for (accumulated too many horses. :( ), low sugar fibre small feed to carry minerals and vitamins and that's it. I would love a track but it is so bloomin wet here so is not viable until I can put a road in from the entrance which happens to be the wettest part. Grrr. Mine live in a herd as well which helps movement.I also scatter feed hay round the perimeter of the yards rather than have two or three feeding stations.

There can be a lot of starch and sugar in hay and grass and I think this is often forgotten or omitted from thinking about feed. Mine can get fat on an unsoaked hay only diet. :eek:
 
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