Thoughts on riding a horse with navicular?

[tallyho!]

Recent research shows that heel first landing is the cause of navicular. Shoes generally cause heel first landing...that's the vicious circle.

Really? I would check that... but I'm sure what you really meant was toe first landing.

 

[merliebug]

Wow, it's amazing how many people are affected by navicular. (Well, not people, but obviously horses can't type). It does seem that most people - myself included - jump to the worst possible outcome, when in fact no one knows how much these changes will affect each individual horse and what severity the changes will stop at.

Good advice re devil's claw and joint supp, will ensure I do both in that case, not just one. He already has rubber matting in his stable which i got for that very reason, and he wears leg wraps at night when it's cold to keep the circulation going.

Thanks for the references to useful websites, I will have a good look at those when I get home. With my horse I do worry that barefoot wouldn't work, purely because with him it's mind over matter, if he thinks he's sore (as of course he will be to start with) then he'll continue to think he is. I guess it works in my favour that he's not brave or I'd never know if he was in pain!

It's so interesting hearing everyone's experiences and what does/ doesn't work for certain horses. DanishWarmBlood, it sounds like you have a similar number of structural problems with your horse as I do with mine - that's reassuring!!

 

[Fauvea]

Really? I would check that... but I'm sure what you really meant was toe first landing.

Yep, you're totally right. Can't correct my typo now, but meant toe first landing.

 

[DanishWarmblood]

[/QUOTE]It's so interesting hearing everyone's experiences and what does/ doesn't work for certain horses. DanishWarmBlood, it sounds like you have a similar number of structural problems with your horse as I do with mine - that's reassuring!![/QUOTE]

Every horse is different and mine had a lot of problems structurally. I recommend having shoes if you think he will be sore and mine is now starting to have his toe shortened to try and encourage a balanced foot as he is toe landing first. People do always think the worst but the research i have done on it has been neither good or bad as no one seems to know much about it and each horse is so different as to whether they cope well or not. I rode my warmblood last night and he was absolutely fine and will take each day as it comes. If you need any advice or want to know more about what i do and what the vet and farrier have said don't hesitat to contact me.

 

[merliebug]

Thank you! I may well PM you.
You're right, day by day is the best way to go.

Anna x

 

[china]

Mine has been barefoot for 10 months but is now getting lamer, my EP says he can do no more for him, having x-rays tomorrow and leverage test, i think we will have to now look at remedial shoeing to help him, such a shame be cause outwardly his feet look good , but he has coffin joint issues as well.

Im in the same boat! mine has been barefoot since october after remedial shoeing was working but he never kept the dam things on, his feet are looking fantastic but he isnt looking very sound, im going to give it a few more months and see if he settles. The farrier is reluctant to shoe him because his feet are looking so good without.

OP- mine is a 13yr old tb who was diagnosed last august, he has been in walk work for 2 months then had the whole winter off without shoes and has now been back in work for 4 weeks, walking out inhand and on the lunge, still very light work as hes not completely sound but hopefully with time this will rectify. I would bring back into work and see where it takes you. you never know, you might get him out competing this time next year. only time will tell. im hoping mine will be sound enough to do search for a star as every year i have tried to do it something has come up! i dont care if i dont qualify but im determined to do it.

 

[foxy1]

Just to say the person who mentioned barefoot horses need a specialist trim every 4 weeks..... mine and loads of other barefoot horses are almost never trimmed; once you get the diet right and with loads of work they wear down all by themselves!!

 

[tallyho!]

Every horse is different and mine had a lot of problems structurally. I recommend having shoes if you think he will be sore and mine is now starting to have his toe shortened to try and encourage a balanced foot as he is toe landing first. People do always think the worst but the research i have done on it has been neither good or bad as no one seems to know much about it and each horse is so different as to whether they cope well or not. I rode my warmblood last night and he was absolutely fine and will take each day as it comes. If you need any advice or want to know more about what i do and what the vet and farrier have said don't hesitat to contact me.

Completely agree about the research as navicular is being dealt with in different ways in what could be different problems in that area.

Just to add experience with the remedial shoeing, we (farrier, vet and I) decided that shortening the toe worked in the short term and sorted breakover, which is cosmetic, but caused the toe to grow fast and created a wavy line growth at the coronet which proved he only put pressure on the outside walls and not the front which stressed the navicular even more as there was no support for the pedal bone at the very front. You can see the wavy line on this photo after we first pulled the shoes.

This made him short on that shoulder (a problem he still has now) as he changed his gait to compensate for the short breakover. And crucially, this contracted his heel even more.

I'm not saying barefoot is the answer, neither am I saying remedial is. Until we find out exactly why this happens (could be genetic some experts are claiming) then we can only try what is available to us.

For me, barefoot is the only way to let the foot GROW a shape that fits the horse and then if required, apply shoeing when we have a "correct" foot again. If this means, I can't ride for a year because thats how long it's going to take for a foot to grow normally, then so be it.

 

[china]

Having been down both routes, bare and shod, its what ever works for the horse. min had the same as tallyho, toes were taken back and he had straight bars on, this wasnt natural to him though and he kept coming up short. Then proceeded to pull a shoe off every week untill we had nothing to nail onto! The farrier is now amazed with his feet and has advised leaving him that way as if we shoe him again we will be back to square one. You dont need a specialist trimmer, i trimmer is no more qualified than a farrier. My farrier is excelent and does a fantastic job!

 

[vicky_sut]

Question for Tallyho,just wondering from looking at your picture where the nail holes are is the dark colour bruising?

 

[criso]

When he was still shod, my farrier tried shortening the toe as well and it only made him lamer.

When we took the shoes off, Frankie's feet grew down at a different angle so yes the toe is now shorter but the back of the foot developed at the same time, it's as if the whole foot moved back. There are photos on the Rockley site if you do a search for Frankie.
That is what has impressed my farrier the most: - the change at the back of the foot and the fact he now has heels!

Incidentally I'm another who wouldn't necessarily recommend 4 weeks trimming, Frankie's on about 6 - 8 week at the moment but that's mainly because I have to fit it with other people having their horses shod, he more or less self trims and just needs a tidy up really. At Rockley he had minimal trimming too but it's something I would hope would be assessed on a case by case basis.

 

[tallyho!]

Question for Tallyho,just wondering from looking at your picture where the nail holes are is the dark colour bruising?

No, bruising on his feet come out a pinky colour. What you see there is dead hoof, rust and dirt probably from where the nails have pulled the wall away from the live capsule. Easy to see on light coloured hooves.

I just think you need to read often and lots on this stuff yourself, don't rely solely on what the "professionals" tell you. It's going to be a steep learning curve whatever you do and it depends on the horse. I still question things like "why trim the frog?".

 

[tallyho!]

When he was still shod, my farrier tried shortening the toe as well and it only made him lamer.

When we took the shoes off, Frankie's feet grew down at a different angle so yes the toe is now shorter but the back of the foot developed at the same time, it's as if the whole foot moved back. There are photos on the Rockley site if you do a search for Frankie.
That is what has impressed my farrier the most: - the change at the back of the foot and the fact he now has heels!

Incidentally I'm another who wouldn't necessarily recommend 4 weeks trimming, Frankie's on about 6 - 8 week at the moment but that's mainly because I have to fit it with other people having their horses shod, he more or less self trims and just needs a tidy up really. At Rockley he had minimal trimming too but it's something I would hope would be assessed on a case by case basis.

Just looked at Frankie's blog - is this proof that nature + time = THE treatment for nav?

 

[criso]

Just looked at Frankie's blog - is this proof that nature + time = THE treatment for nav?

Well technically he wasn't diagnosed with Navicular though some vets would have used the term.

I would add to that, creating the right environment to help nature work, the rehab work and environment made a difference I think, even the fact he was living out with different areas and tracks and surfaces so he was helping himself in his off time.

What I have taken from this experience is that TB feet can change and you do not have to accept long toes, thin soles, crumbly hooves and underrun heels as a genetic given, in the right environment they can change dramatically.

 

[china]

This was my boys feet last october when he went through an episode of pulling his remedial shoes off

and his feet 7 weeks ago, he is due another trim tuesday so you can imagine how even better they look. They look good but hes still not 100% sound.

 

[superpony]

One of my boys has navicular, hes sound with eggbars and still carrys on as normal, he dressages, jumps, does pc and rc. I have to be careful on hard ground and don't jump on grass in the summer but apart from that we don't have any issues.

 

[tallyho!]

One of my boys has navicular, hes sound with eggbars and still carrys on as normal, he dressages, jumps, does pc and rc. I have to be careful on hard ground and don't jump on grass in the summer but apart from that we don't have any issues.

That's really good to hear and encouraging for anyone in this situation - if done well, I also think this method works and the eggbar is actually meant to support the frog and heel and help it open up done properly so you sound like you have a skilled farrier to help!!! Wish I did back when I really needed it 3 years ago...

 

[AmyMay]

Have a chat with your farrier about using gel pads rather than the wedges. You may find an improvement. Other than that I can only echo what others have said - ride when sound and play it by ear...

And of course bar shoes are a must.

 

[Aileen K]

My 18-yr-old mare was dx'd with Navicular three years ago. I am ready to try Tildren. Does it work? Did you give it IV? Did your horse colic that day from the Tildren? How is your horse now? Thanks!

 

[caramel]

I do. I just lightly hack mine, he's semi retired but still has his moments in the field! just have to be careful. He's got a great farrier which helps no end. He enjoys the odd short hack. He's 16 now and on no medication for it.

 

[cptrayes]

This is a very old thread.

There is now a weight of evidence that the most effective way to treat, and cure, navicular syndrome is with a barefoot rehab.

Check out the two and a half years since this thread started on rockleyfarm.blogspot.com