Thoughts on this horse?

A few points I noticed

The rider is using a LOT of leg, with spurs too...

The horse looks lame in trot

Lots of tail swishing

Nice enough jump though and I'm sure soundness issues would come up in a vetting...
 
She doesn't look very happy in the dressage, does she? And she's lame on the off fore, although with the amount of tail swishing, I'm not sure whether she doesn't find some movements a little difficult behind, too. Alternatively, she could be reacting to the rather heavy use of spurs. Hmm.
 
I thought she looked lame too - I have looked at her BE record which decent enough but I'm wondering how she manages to get such good dressage scores as I found that test a little difficult to watch if I'm honest!
 
That video is not the best she is not moving well in all paces especially walk but it is the first event with that rider following a few Ws, at 3* A so may struggle at that level, having dropped down seems to be coming back her most recent result was decent.
 
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Ok now this is just my opinion....

1. Rider is using far too much leg it looks more like pony club kicks rather than elegant dressage movements. (With spurs too) got to ask yourself is it rider error or is the horse not wanting to move forwards.
2. Horse looks a little lame in trott on its right fore about 1min into video. it also trips with the right foot later on. Note how horse's head is "nodding" usually accompanied with lameness.
3. As horse trotts across the diagonal it dishes with its left fore (not a problem with health but could get marked down in dressage)
4. A lot of tail swishing (usually a good indicator horse is not happy)
5. What sort of eventing do you want to do? Local riding club stuff or affiliated?
Personally i would give it a miss. BUT if its a first horse or an "allrounder do a bit of everything occasionally" i wouldn't rule out going for a look.
 
Somehow I think the horse is a little above local riding club stuff given the levels it has competed at...
 
I'm looking for something to do affiliated with - She's done pretty well at Intermediate/** and has a price tag to match. I was just really disappointed when I saw the video as it doesn't quite match up with her BE record and wasn't particularly pleasing to the eye! She doesn't look particularly happy in her job eh?
 
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
Look at her record, it's good. Last 4 outings = DC after good dressage, and top 10 placings at OI level. Every time.
If I were looking for a schoolmistress and she was in budget, I would go and try her, 100%.
 
Yup, totally agree. this will be a heap of money, good record at Intermediate and gone advanced, dressage scores are very good and both SJ and XC record really good. My only concern would be that both riders have been strong men (Tapner and Ryan), don't know if you are male or female but at 16.3 it's a lot of horse and will almost certainly have been ridden quite strongly, Matt Ryan, I know, has a reputation for being pretty forceful. I bought an ex intermediate eventer some years ago very cheaply that had an immaculate record with it's semi pro male rider, he was sold for a lot of money as a juniors horse but she never got it round XC. Kept going back to a pro to compete and was clear but wouldn't do it for a less experienced/weaker rider. For all I know you might be a strong professional rider but it's something to be aware of.
kerilli said:
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
Look at her record, it's good. Last 4 outings = DC after good dressage, and top 10 placings at OI level. Every time.
If I were looking for a schoolmistress and she was in budget, I would go and try her, 100%.
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Gosh I must be watching a different video to most of the posters on here?

I see a soft and supple horse. Maybe lacking a little energy at times and possibly a bit on her shoulders in a couple of movementd but certainly not lame.

The judge gave it 32.5 so they can't have been overly worried either!

*confused*
 
Can I ask you both as I know you're both good event riders, what is your honest impression of the mare, how she moves, attitude? I really don't want to waste his time but I am seriously looking for something of that calibre. She does have a good record, I just wasn't blown away by the video and I wanted to be/I thought I would be given her record!
 
Howe Street said:
Can I ask you both as I know you're both good event riders, what is your honest impression of the mare, how she moves, attitude? I really don't want to waste his time but I am seriously looking for something of that calibre. She does have a good record, I just wasn't impressed at all from the video.
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I don't know if you meant me (I saw 'good' and assumed you didn't ;) ). The video is from the middle of the last season and the mare has current placings from this season so I'd consider it irrelevant. Chat to the vendor and if you like the sound of it ask for some recent video or better still go and see it in person.
 
Gamebird said:
I don't know if you meant me (I saw 'good' and assumed you didn't ;) ). The video is from the middle of the last season and the mare has current placings from this season so I'd consider it irrelevant. Chat to the vendor and if you like the sound of it ask for some recent video or better still go and see it in person.
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I did mean you, yes :) you're too modest! As someone else mentioned, I just thought it was a peculiar choice of video to show her off. You're right, I need to ask for a recent video and compare the two. To be honest I don't think I would want to go and see her on the basis of that video, I know it was taken 6 months ago but still......
 
I don't see the excessive use of leg… if you watch most top end dressage riders their legs move with the movement of the horse, but are not actually 'on'. I do think she looked a little uncomfortable in the medium trots but difficult to say. A dressage test isn't a lameness work up and for her kind of price tag I should imagine she'd come with a full vetting so any niggling issues would be picked up. Go and see her, what have you got to loose??
If she isn't 'blowing your mind' then maybe she just isn't the horse for you… each to their own, but YOU need the 'wow' factor when you go and see her, and if you don't get that you shouldn't go for her. You'll only be compromising on what you REALLY WANT.
Good luck :) she seems a nice mare. Not every horse gets lit up when jumping! My boy looks like he's sauntering around, until you go XC :)
 
Just another thing to take into account, last season was one of the driest on record, the ground will have been like concrete and she'll have been studded up. I actually thought the test was good but on a good surface no doubt, it would have looked better
 
I think watching event horses do dressage on grass can sometimes make them look very different to how they may look on a surface, not because they are unsound but because, even if very balanced, they will protect themselves a little if the surface is not great. The grass may have been damp on top of hard ground which is horrible to ride an Intro test on, never mind 10m circles! I've ridden a horse that moved very well which felt flippin' awful on slippery grass and was wary of using it's back end at all!

Some of the comments so far have ranged from harsh to laughable considering the horse's record and rider. I wouldn't discount if this is what you are looking for. I'm sure there are flashier horses around but a reliable horse in all 3 phases at that level is not to be sniffed at - and you pay a lot extra for the flash ;-)
 
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As some other posters, depending on who was looking, I wouldn't necessarily want to buy a horse from a pro, much less one that has been ridden & produced by 2 men, simply because the horse would be accustomed to an exceptional standard of riding & would very quickly recognise, a weaker, less able rider & not produce the same standard of work they are capable of. I have seen a few horses go superbly for their pro producers, but take the micky out of less strong ones.
 
Bear in mind I don't event (though my sisters do) so I'm really coming at this from an outsider's perspective :D

The goods
- She looks very sane.
- She will have had a good professional upbringing with Tapner Eventing, and they will have preserved her confidence.
- She keeps a nice rhythm into a fence, she is in a snaffle and the rider doesn't look like he has to over ride or anything, she seems very level headed.

The bads
- To be brutally honest, to me she doesn't look 100% sound. Not lame at all, but perhaps a little stiff? She doesn't track up, even in free walk. But I am quite paranoid about soundness so I may be looking for something that's not there. Could just be the surface (grass is not the best for judging a horse's way of going) and the flies look to be bothering her, which could interrupt her striding. It looks hot too, so it might simply be a lack of energy/impulsion, because in the medium she appears very level. So hard to say from a video! She has a nice ground covering canter. I think you'd need more footage of her moving, both with and without a rider on a level surface, to make any sort of judgement either way.
- She may be a little on the lazy side. Rider looks like they're using a lot of leg in the dressage phase, but again difficult to say from a video, and could just be the hot weather. Would be good to see some XC footage, because I imagine you'd want a horse that took you into the fence in that situation.
 
longdog said:
As some other posters, depending on who was looking, I wouldn't necessarily want to buy a horse from a pro, much less one that has been ridden & produced by 2 men, simply because the horse would be accustomed to an exceptional standard of riding & would very quickly recognise, a weaker, less able rider & not produce the same standard of work they are capable of. I have seen a few horses go superbly for their pro producers, but take the micky out of less strong ones.
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This is a good point too, I have seen this happen more than once!!!!
 
Matafleur said:
I think watching event horses do dressage on grass can sometimes make them look very different to how they may look on a surface, not because they are unsound but because, even if very balanced, they will protect themselves a little if the surface is not great. The grass may have been damp on top of hard ground which is horrible to ride an Intro test on, never mind 10m circles! I've ridden a horse that moved very well which felt flippin' awful on slippery grass and was wary of using it's back end at all!
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And not just the horse - I know I ride super conservatively on grass, I definitely block him even if that isn't my intention.
 
kerilli said:
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
Look at her record, it's good. Last 4 outings = DC after good dressage, and top 10 placings at OI level. Every time.
If I were looking for a schoolmistress and she was in budget, I would go and try her, 100%.
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meardsall_millie said:
Gosh I must be watching a different video to most of the posters on here?

I see a soft and supple horse. Maybe lacking a little energy at times and possibly a bit on her shoulders in a couple of movementd but certainly not lame.

The judge gave it 32.5 so they can't have been overly worried either!

*confused*
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I have to say this and this ^^^ tbh.

I didn't see the rider doing PC type kicks at all. His leg is moving with the movement of the horse. Granted, perhaps CDs and CHs lower leg don't move quite as much but they are pro dressage riders so....:p

Re the lameness, she looks a bit sticky at points but hardly hopping lame. In fact, she looks a really sweet mare who looked to be trying. A vetting will soon tell you if there are any issues so I would definitely go and see her if you think she is what you are looking for.
 
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