Thoughts on this horse?

kerilli said:
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
Look at her record, it's good. Last 4 outings = DC after good dressage, and top 10 placings at OI level. Every time.
If I were looking for a schoolmistress and she was in budget, I would go and try her, 100%.
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I should have read through this post before quoting everyone, and done it one reply haha.

I look at videos of me riding, and with the smaller horse, it looks like I'm nagging him because my legs go so far past his side, they are less stable. But in reality my spurs are about two inches away from his flanks. So yes, what I'm trying to say is, videos can be very deceiving! I think if I was selling a horse though for that sort of price, I would get a better dressage video - on a surface on a less fly-ey day!! But her record speaks for itself, so I wouldn't discount her on that. I think I might want X rays with the vetting though. But then I'd probably ask for that for anything over £10k...
 
Well I was surprised at the riding club comment. Just expected to be a little more wowed at the dressage for the 30k price tag. OP I think it depends how you feel about her, it would certainly be interesting to see a different video perhaps on a surface.
 
OP, ring them up, ask some questions, if you like the answers, take your experienced trainer/mentor/parent and go see. If you don't like the horse enough to view, don't go. But you are looking for quite a specialised beast and horses with decent 2* form that will go for a true amateur aren't around every corner. I'm assuming you've already tried a few and have a good idea of what will and won't suit you, so ask the vendors their thoughts with that information in hand.

I don't really care who the rider is, for your purposes you're buying on results and the horse's suitability for you. With the best will in the world, no one on an internet forum can really help you.

Just a note re the price, you could pay more for an amateur-friendly horse with decent 2* form.

Good luck in your search. It's very exciting to be getting a horse of that calibre!
 
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Tiddlypom said:
Never mind whether she is athletic or not, but the following comment would ring alarm bells for me:-

'Rusty is a typical 'red headed mare' !!! So we all have to be concentrating when handling her !'
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Yes I noticed that too! Plus she doesn't look too clever with her legs in the middle photo.
 
claracanter said:
I expect you have already seen this on Matt Ryan's website but he certainly has very high expectations of this mare

http://www.mattryan.co.uk/index.php/alias/cause-celebre.html
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Still not the best of pics and hanging a leg on all jumping pics...

Compare to a horse jumping at novice level (old style lol)

FrankXC.jpg


FrankSJ.jpg
 
TarrSteps said:
OP, ring them up, ask some questions, if you like the answers, take your experienced trainer/mentor/parent and go see. If you don't like the horse enough to view, don't go. But you are looking for quite a specialised beast and horses with decent 2* form that will go for a true amateur aren't around every corner. I'm assuming you've already tried a few and have a good idea of what will and won't suit you, so ask the vendors their thoughts with that information in hand.

I don't really care who the rider is, for your purposes you're buying on results and the horse's suitability for you. With the best will in the world, no one on an internet forum can really help you.

Just a note re the price, you could pay more for an amateur-friendly horse with decent 2* form.

Good luck in your search. It's very exciting to be getting a horse of that calibre!
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Thank you, yes it's an exciting prospect. Due to a recent change in circumstances I am in a position that I can afford something of this calibre (I was previously was in the market for a 10k dressage horse) but have been desperate to get back into eventing and I just want an out and out schoolmaster - although admittedly this one may be a bit beyond me, considering the two previous riders.
 
kerilli said:
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
Look at her record, it's good. Last 4 outings = DC after good dressage, and top 10 placings at OI level. Every time.
If I were looking for a schoolmistress and she was in budget, I would go and try her, 100%.
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Totally agree! The riders legs are just moving with the sitting trot in my opinion, yes ideally they would be a bit stiller but they aren't kicking!! Whilst i'm not 100% sure about the soundness, i don't think the horse looks half as unhappy as some people think!
 
IMO a horse competed by a female would be a better bet, particularly if that female is an amateur or semi-pro or youngish, no doubt you'll take care in looking at the BE record as you do have to be careful. A horse advertised as competing at intermediate and ridden by a young girl, had in fact been competed at the higher level by a male pro. The owner had had good results up to novice but not at intermediate! The really straightforward talented ones are like gold dust!
Howe Street said:
Thank you, yes it's an exciting prospect. Due to a recent change in circumstances I am in a position that I can afford something of this calibre (I was previously was in the market for a 10k dressage horse) but have been desperate to get back into eventing and I just want an out and out schoolmaster - although admittedly this one may be a bit beyond me, considering the two previous riders.
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I'm not sure if that's to me or not, but I'll give it a go. :)
I think she looks seriously workmanlike, in the best possible way. She is doing her job, really nicely. No, she's not necessarily "WOW", but that kind of horse tends to be that way for a reason!
The video was taken last year, so I'd want to have a good look at her now, obviously. But there are no black marks against her record (other than the fact that it looks as if they've decided she's not 3/4* material, fair enough.)
She looks to me to have plenty of scope, carefulness, and also, importantly, to be very rideable. I've seen Tappers having to work hard on one or two and he isn't in this case, imho. He may be a tall male Pro but the point about top Pros is that they TRAIN their horses to be rideable, very few of them waggon their horses round on a mixture of pure strength, talent and lunatic bravery. Okay, there are some horses which have been ridden by Pro men and which I'd expect any amateur (me included) to get carted from here to infinity on (Armada, for example) but she really doesn't look like one of those at all.
Even the tail swishing... she even does it in halt. I wonder if there were lots of flies that day?
I'd give them a call, discuss your abilities and requirements, and go from there.
Fwiw Tappers' wife Georgina rides and I would eat my hat if he hasn't asked her (and other riders) to ride any horse like this who is going to be sold, it'd be crazy to have the horse tuned so that only he could ride it.
Oh, and just in case, please, don't believe a word about the 'chestnut mares' rubbish. Most reliable horse I've had in my entire life was a chestnut mare. Still going strong at about 23 now, as a perfect schoolmistress.
Good Luck with your search, anyway. :)
 
Couldn't believe it when I realised who this horse is! She came from my yard where she was produced for a couple of years. She is a very talented but very quirky strong minded mare who could be VERY difficult to handle on the ground. Obviously this was a few years ago and she may be much better now but the comment about her on Matt's website made me laugh. She certainly always was more of a pro's horse. I actually really liked the showjumping round although less impressed by the dressage test.
 
To me it looks like the rider is having to support the mare a lot in this test. An amateur, female rider may well struggle to achieve anything like he is achieving. The horse may well be going a lot easier now as like others have said this was along time a go so best thing is to ask for more recent footage. Personally, being a small amateur myself, I wouldn't buy a horse that had been ridden by two very good male professionals.
 
kerilli said:
Cripes almighty, I do just love seeing this kind of criticism of a 4* rider who has won Badminton. He is NOT using a lot of leg imho, his lower legs are relaxed and just nudging in rhythm as she moves, using the spurs as a refined aid (which is what they are designed for), nothing like the strength of one good kick. "Pony Club kicks"... "rather heavy use of spurs"... really?!?! I do not see what you are seeing, obviously!
No wonder Pro riders think this place is a joke.
.
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Totally agree re the comments on the riding.

Tbh there's always one on these posts who claims the horse is lame, and they never usually are. So I watched the video expecting to see a lovely supple, level horse.
But actually, I have to agree - this horse DOESN'T look 100% sound. Not lame, per se, but definitely not level and not tracking up.

I wasn't wowed tbh. And that was with a v good pilot on board.
 
Louise_88 said:
To me it looks like the rider is having to support the mare a lot in this test. An amateur, female rider may well struggle to achieve anything like he is achieving. The horse may well be going a lot easier now as like others have said this was along time a go so best thing is to ask for more recent footage. Personally, being a small amateur myself, I wouldn't buy a horse that had been ridden by two very good male professionals.
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This, totally.
I've never bought a horse for myself of this calibre but I've acted as an agent for quite a few people who have. I'd always be wary of a horse that's only been ridden by professional men for a lady amateur. Doesn't mean it can't work, but the comments about this mare's temperament, plus that below par dressage video would put me off.
 
I also agree about the pro man to amateur lady issue in fact I am cautious about buying horses from male riders full stop.
However that's something you have decide when you ride the horse as many horses go better for women ( my own is an example of this ) .
I also think the horse does not look 100% however it could be very hard ground , that aside she does not make my blood rush in the test however O p needs an all round horse so perhaps that's not the end of the world .
I would more worried about the comments above from Mavis007 about the horse being difficult on the ground as an amateur I think it's vital a horse is nice to be around and a pleasure to own .
You would of course have a vet all over it like a rash if you thought the horse was right to the job .

Ps good stallion to have a mare by in the future .
 
FWIW....I know that arena well, it is on a hell of a camber, with the ground dropping away from you along the lower edge, especially on the corners.....both horses and riders can find it difficult, especially the bigger ones. My (sound) 17.2 feels appalling in that arena.
 
The thing about temperament... horses 'grow up'. I have one here who was an utter witch to handle when younger but now is easy peasy for anyone, incl totally non-horsey people. I had a coloured gelding in who was initially an utter git on the ground, took all my height and strength and tricks for a while to persuade him that that wasn't on, and when he left here was a 'dope on a rope' to handle.
I'm not saying this mare is necessarily perfect for the OP, but to discount her on the strength of comments about her behaviour years ago, and a video from last year, would be unfair imho.
 
I'm no eventer but I quite liked the second half of the test, she got into her rhythm and the test flowed nicely.

If I was interested I'd go and see her in the flesh, not ask a bunch of strangers on the wibbly web.

And Matt Ryan has her as a potential for Rio 2016, so maybe she's not so bad!!
 
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Mavis007 said:
Couldn't believe it when I realised who this horse is! She came from my yard where she was produced for a couple of years. She is a very talented but very quirky strong minded mare who could be VERY difficult to handle on the ground. Obviously this was a few years ago and she may be much better now but the comment about her on Matt's website made me laugh. She certainly always was more of a pro's horse. I actually really liked the showjumping round although less impressed by the dressage test.
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Thanks, very interesting to hear from someone who has known the horse. I think, all things considered, she wouldn't be right for me.
 
I didn't percieve the rider has using a lot of leg in the dressage, but he did have afully flappy legs in the sitting trot which made it look busy/untidy and as if he was using a lot of leg. I sympathise. If I ride anything with a hint of elevation my legs are all over the place (one of my criteria when buying my new horse was "must have comfy trot")
 
I find all the Mayhill horses I've had the 'pleasure' of grooming, to be, quite frankly ''narky''! I've yet to meet a pleasant tempered one!
I guess they may be really true competition horses, who don't do so well being a one-to-one pet.?
I like the horse in question, but it wouldn't interest me in even thinking about viewing her.
 
Patterdale said:
Tbh there's always one on these posts who claims the horse is lame, and they never usually are. So I watched the video expecting to see a lovely supple, level horse.
But actually, I have to agree - this horse DOESN'T look 100% sound. Not lame, per se, but definitely not level and not tracking up.
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Exactly this. I watch the video without reading the comments first and thought she looked a bit 'off' in the test.
 
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