Thoughts on this horse?

[frankieduck]

Just curious really. Went to view a horse for sale a few months ago, knew the owner through word of mouth and everything was legit.

Horse had been bought as a dressage schoolmaster for a nervous rider as was safe as houses but had gone arena-sour and they decided to sell to a jumping home, I was interested in buying him as my next team-chaser.

Saw horse ridden by professional on the yard, was bone idle but once pointed at a fence was great. Rode him myself, absolutely dead to the leg, spurs and whip on the flat but jumped everything I pointed him at with no qualms.

Went back a few times and rode him, on the flat, jumping and hacking - he was polite but absolutely exhausting to ride. But, jumped everything you asked on a lovely forward stride, but completely died between fences.

I took him to a local farm ride/XC to see if he would light up and want to do the job I wanted him for, he was on the most very pleasant but halfway round just downed tools and napped. He didn't do anything when he did this, just stopped and literally refused to move. I found this so odd for a horse out on a 'fun' ride in company with other horses and this was where I started to think maybe it wasn't going to work. A horse that was arena-sour and lazy was one thing, but to just down tools in that environment was a red flag for me.

Horse had a recent full set of clean x-rays and had scoped clear for ulcers, I had him vetted just to see if my own vet could find any red flags and she said much as she hated to admit it (because he was so uncooperative and sour) he was 100% sound.

I didn't buy him in the end because of the above issues and felt like ultimately I was taking on a minefield of issues. Horse was sold to a hunt home where I believe he is doing very well, so maybe it was what he needed to learn to enjoy life and go forwards again.

I've just always pondered it as it was such an extreme situation and I've honestly never met a horse like him. Medical issue like PSSM? Or just genuinely ruined by being drilled to death in an arena and switched off?

 

[Birker2020]

Lari was very flat, lacked impulsive and had to be ridden with a schooling whip when I viewed him. Should have seen the red flags, KS and SI issues.

Went to view one back in about March. Was exactly the same, dead to the leg, had to be pushed in the school and ridden with a whip. This one had very obvious pelvic asymmetry when viewed from behind, (see photos) so assuming that pointed to SI issues too.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Could be a medical issue or the horse could just be bored to death!

I dont think you would ever get a real feel for the horse at all just taking it out here and there. I think you would have to bring him to a new home and settle him in and go from there.
It could be all he needs is a change of scenery.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Horse was sold to a hunt home where I believe he is doing very well, so maybe it was what he needed to learn to enjoy life and go forwards again.

As a teenager I had a TB/connemara who was lazy as a lazy thing in the summer but who adored his hunting in the winter. It was like riding two different horses.

He passed a vetting both when we bought him and when we sold him two years later.

If I had him now I’d be thinking he must have some physical quirk, but I really don’t know whether it was that or just his preference.

 

[frankieduck]

As a teenager I had a TB/connemara who was lazy as a lazy thing in the summer but who adored his hunting in the winter. It was like riding two different horses.

He passed a vetting both when we bought him and when we sold him two years later.

If I had him now I’d be thinking he must have some physical quirk, but I really don’t know whether it was that or just his preference.

It's interesting isn't it! I've had hunters that I never bothered to ride much in summer, they were machines out hunting but trying to get a good trot out of them in the school would leave you flapping around like you were on a bored-to-death riding school horse. I think it raises an interesting question about how much adrenaline perhaps overrides those physical niggles.

 

[HaplessHorse]

I went to see one that sounds an awful lot like him a few years ago, it was a very similar situation, completely dead to the leg and all added extras the pro had. It was very odd to me at the time.

He had been rehabbed for KS in the previous year having competed in BSJ to a reasonably high level before that if I remember correctly. Don’t know if it was something to do with the KS or just not liking flatwork/intensive rehab work though.

I’m a bit wary of horses that are extremely lazy with no obvious reason, it could be a combination of issues? Or he just needed a change in life?

 

[frankieduck]

Lari was very flat, lacked impulsive and had to be ridden with a schooling whip when I viewed him. Should have seen the red flags, KS and SI issues.

Went to view one back in about March. Was exactly the same, dead to the leg, had to be pushed in the school and ridden with a whip. This one had very obvious pelvic asymmetry when viewed from behind, (see photos) so assuming that pointed to SI issues too.

I'm almost certain there must have been 'something' going on - but the bit that left me perplexed was my very good vet was absolutely determined to fail him, but literally could not find the slightest indication of anything wrong.

 

[LEC]

We used to specialise in buying sour ponies/horses because they were usually cheap. In the thing they hated they would be completely uncooperative. Everything else was never an issue. They were nearly all shut down in some way. It would usually take 6-12 months but would be completely different at the end. We just never did what they hated which a lot of the time was showing.

The fun ride could simply be a case of being completely overwhelmed. The fact they didn't do anything kind of tells you it's their coping mechanism. I wouldn't just immediately write it off as pain.

A shut down horse can take a while to sort as essentially they have learnt to protect themselves by a learned behaviour and not engaging with the world. I guess you will never know what the problem was but I wouldn't under estimate the psychological damage and constant living in stress as ultimately their ridden life would be pretty miserable inadvertently and no joy in moving like horses should have. Tight body and stress would still cause physical issues but much easier to sort ones.

 

[frankieduck]

We used to specialise in buying sour ponies/horses because they were usually cheap. In the thing they hated they would be completely uncooperative. Everything else was never an issue. They were nearly all shut down in some way. It would usually take 6-12 months but would be completely different at the end. We just never did what they hated which a lot of the time was showing.

The fun ride could simply be a case of being completely overwhelmed. The fact they didn't do anything kind of tells you it's their coping mechanism. I wouldn't just immediately write it off as pain.

A shut down horse can take a while to sort as essentially they have learnt to protect themselves by a learned behaviour and not engaging with the world. I guess you will never know what the problem was but I wouldn't under estimate the psychological damage round peg in square hole can cause.

Really interesting thank you! Yes I did deliberate for a long time over whether to buy him, especially as he was an absolute bargain. Ultimately it was too risky for me, and I like my forward, buzzy horses that love their job - but I do hope he found his love for life again out hunting.

 

[Kirstd33]

I'm only a happy hacker and pootler of a rider but still could never have a lazy, sluggish "dead to the leg" horse or pony. My daughters first share pony Jack was a real kick along, ultimately 100% safe and perfect as a first horse but on the occasions I did ride him, I couldn't walk the next day due to the intense leg workout. Even hacking I like an active walk, trot and canter and a pony that seems to enjoy what its doing.

 

[humblepie]

I bought a showjumper many years ago who has been destined to be an event horse but used to plant cross country. He was also very nappy to hack out even to the extent of reversing up the driveway rather than going out of the yard. He wasn’t dead to the leg so slighty different scenario I think with him his problem was he had been schooled and schooled and just didn’t have any life experience. We got him so that he would hack out and he was a happy showjumper and also did very well showing. I think the key to him was life experience, less schooling and more fun. I was jumping him somewhere and somebody came up to me and said she couldn’t believe how well he was going, which was lovely. I always used to joke that cross country he couldn’t understand why you didn’t just go round the fences as there was plenty of space but in the showjumping ring he understood that somebody had put them there a specific reason. Made sense to me.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

Did they test for Cushings? Lethargy can be a symptom