thoughts on welfare of horses owned by inexperienced people

T

trick123

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 February 2009
Messages
282
Visit site
this is true scenario of a recent occurance and i was wondering what people thought as the title suggests. A young girl owns a horse and keeps it at livery, thats ok so far nothing wrong in that, but her parents have no knowledge at all and she is left to her own devices. it suffered an injury recently and as it was getting no better a vet was called and she was given instructions as to its care, it had a punture wound, was oozing pus, and the vet told her to keep riding it! anyway to cut a long story short, it was found dead in its stable and apparently died from septicaemia. 3 things worry me a young person has sole care of a horse, no one on livery yard to keep an eye on welfare of the horses on the yard, and the treatment by the vet allowing a horse to die from septicaemia from a punture wound?
these occurances are not rare in my experience, we have a horse that has come in for schooling, it is wrong from its poll to its tail and probably has ulcers, so it is in pain, when told it is behaving badly, the reply is oh yes it does do that at home. the owner has no idea that the horse is in pain and that is why it behaves badly. again young owner keeps it at livery, parents have no greater knowledge and little overlooking by YO. I worry about the welfare of our noble animals, i don't like lots of legislation but surely something needs to be done. farm livestock have to be looked after properly why is there no one body to keep an eye on horses and ponies wherever they are, livery yards, overbreeding stud farms, auctions etc.
 
very difficult I dont think there is any one answer.. however I guess education is the best bet long term, maybe to have a pasport in your name you have to do a BHS horse owners exam ...maybe that would work..???
 
i understand where you are coming from we have a lady at my yard and she is so green and clueless but she will accept help. i have always said to her if she needs to ask a question i am always there for her.
 
Septicaemia is blood poisoning and can happen as a result of any wound (including sterile operating theatre) in human or animal. It happens - short of preventing the wound, not much can happen.

On your comment, how do you get experience - until you face it, nothing can quite prepare you. I've had loads of animals but thankfully never really needed a vet for anything other than routine/ PTS due to very old age. Does that mean I shoudn't own a horse since I don't know how to handle horses with serious vet problems?
 
I agree with you. My horse's welfare is such a high priority to me. I expect him to be a polite and friendly boy and undertake the work I ask of him but I look after him to the very best of my budget and experience and if I want a second opinion, I ask someone knowledgable and who I respect. This equates to the horses on our small (5 horse) yard all being fed, turned out and brought in and the same time. All of us trust each other to deal with and care for each other's horses in the same way you would care for your own. I feel very lucky in this respect. On other yards in the past, I haven't had this confidence in people / staff that could potentially handle my horse, which has meant two or three visits a day. Wouldn't like to be a DIY livery yard owner, I would really struggle to sit on my hands or not say if I thought a horse wasn't being treated correctly
 
In these cases, when the horses are kept at livery by inexperienced owners, the YO needs to keep an eye out for them. I know a yard owner is not accountable for the welfare of the horses on their yard - that is down to the owner - but surely they are responsible? If I were managing a yard and knew an owner was inexperienced and may need advice, I would offer my full support as I could not live with myself if anything happened to a horse on my yard.
I am also shocked by the flippant attitude of the vet mentioned above!
 
The thing is there's only one way to become experienced. If you ban inexperienced owners from keeping horses there'll come a point when no-one will be experienced enough to own one ;)

It's about making sure there's a good support system around, trying to learn as much as you can, not being afraid to ask for help and, nearly more importantly, WHOM to ask for help.

There's a lovely wee yearling on our yard, and her owner is very inexperienced. However, you will not meet a nicer mannered, better behaved horse, never mind a yearling... she is nearly the best behaved horse on the yard, is an absolute dream to handle and a real credit to the owner. That owner takes every opportunity to learn, spends every second she can reading up on ownership and is not one bit afraid to ask any question at all she feels she needs help with. :)

Again we're lucky as we all keep an eye out for each other, check on every single horse whenever we go into the field and keep in regular contact with other owners, so any problem should get picked up on very quickly.

All of that said, sadly some of the worst cases of neglect I've seen have come from experienced owners. (Of course that DOES NOT mean I'm saying that experienced owners neglect their horses, before someone mis-interprets and jumps on me ;))
 
A wound is not a reason to stop riding a sound horse. Some are best kept exercised to keep the swelling down, or the horse sane, or muscles from getting adhesions, for example. For a puncture wound the vet may well have wanted it to pump itself clean with work. I don't think we have nearly enough information to criticise the vet.

I do, however share the OPs concern about inexperienced owners in DIY yards with yard owners who either do not know enough to insist that the right things are done or will not do it. Overheated horses in multiple rugs, underexercised horses kept in 24/7 so they won't get dirty, overfed horses with type 2 diabetes etc etc etc.
 
See, we went from my mum loaning a horse, to loaning a pony and keeping it at a lady's field with her horse, to buying our own land and then adopting horses from blue cross and buying them. I don't remember us being necessarily that competent (my mum had not had horses as a kid) but the blue cross trusted us enough :eek:

but then again, I think there's being inexperienced, and there's having no common sense. We didn't know the first thing about clipping, rugging etc but the ponies always got by ok hacking to comps and none of them dropped dead (ok thats flippant, but they were never sick or sorry). My parents are not stupid, even if not experienced they wouldn't have done anything ridiculous (apart from my mum sitting me on her 15.2 horse and me falling off :rolleyes: )
 
I am a new and inexperienced owner with a horse on my own yard. I have ridden for years and know the basics as i worked at a riding school for several years. I have a lot of friends who ride and have their own horses who are always willing to give me advice and help with my boy when I need it, plus I find posting on this forum is always helpful ;)
My boy's happiness and welfare is top priority, and while I may not know all the answers and what to do in every situation I always take advice and help when offered :)
 
I hate threads like this, they make novice owners feel bad and anxious about their horse's welfare.

I have 2 horses and have been with horses and riding for over 44 years. Am I experienced enough? No, I am not. I do not know everything, I make mistakes (tend to over rug/feed my WB) and occasionally I need to ask for advice. If you are experienced it does not mean you know everything or can tackle every situation. For example Fany was ill a couple of weeks ago, my YO and I believed it to be one illness, it wasn't. We were both wrong and the vets had also never seen anything like it, she is perfectly well now. My point is that no one knows everything, the key is whether novice or experienced are you willing to learn and you must be willing to admit for all your experience you are dealing with an individual, not a robot, each horse presents its own challenges and joys. Am I an expert on horses? Never. Am I learning? Always.
FDC
 
Why would anyone approach you for help when you condemn them as cruel for not having experience? How do you even get experience without partaking.

Exams are useless. I passed the BHS Stage one with 96%, and still made lots of mistakes when I got my first horse. That was after sharing for two years and working at a riding school. Nothing can prepare someone for suddenly calling the shots.

Support for these people and a friendly attitude is the key. Making them feel like their abusing or deliberatly causing their horse to suffer only serves to bully them out of horse ownership. And having being bullied to the extent I wanted to sell my first horse that I'd wanted so desperatly for years, it's an attitude that disgusts me.
 
MissSBird said:
Why would anyone approach you for help when you condemn them as cruel for not having experience? How do you even get experience without partaking.

Exams are useless. I passed the BHS Stage one with 96%, and still made lots of mistakes when I got my first horse. That was after sharing for two years and working at a riding school. Nothing can prepare someone for suddenly calling the shots.

Support for these people and a friendly attitude is the key. Making them feel like their abusing or deliberatly causing their horse to suffer only serves to bully them out of horse ownership. And having being bullied to the extent I wanted to sell my first horse that I'd wanted so desperatly for years, it's an attitude that disgusts me.
Click to expand...

This. Especially the last sentence.
FDC
 
I have seen plenty of so say 'experienced' people make more mistakes with the welfare of their horses than the keen, first time horse owner who tends to stick to the textbook way of care, to be honest.
 
At the yard I run I am constantly keeping half an eye on the care and riding of my liveries , I am sure they think I am a nosy interfering old bag but secretly I think they appreciate the back up. I usually leave them to their own devices but Will step in if need be.
 
HarlequinSer said:
I am a new and inexperienced owner with a horse on my own yard. I have ridden for years and know the basics as i worked at a riding school for several years. I have a lot of friends who ride and have their own horses who are always willing to give me advice and help with my boy when I need it, plus I find posting on this forum is always helpful ;)
My boy's happiness and welfare is top priority, and while I may not know all the answers and what to do in every situation I always take advice and help when offered :)
Click to expand...

You've got it in a nutshell! And that's exactly how I am - despite being an AI I don't profess to know everything and really value advice and will always ask if unsure. You never stop learning :)
 
The experience of an owner or the lack thereof is not to me the be all and end all of being a horse owner. An inexperienced owner who has dealt with one occurance with their horse will have more knowledge and experience than the experienced owner who has not dealt with this occurance.

In my own personal opinion it is the attitude of the owner that determines the welfare of their horse. I have owned horses for many years, been involved in all sorts of weird and wonderful situations and learnt from them all but I would never consider myself an experienced horseperson, there is too much to continue learning.

I have silently sat back and watched people screw up perfectly good horses because they considered themselves experienced and I have watched inexperienced owners have the most amazing partnerships with their beloved animals. In the world of horse ownership 50% consider themselves above everyone else and consider themselves to be proper horse owners and the rest clueless. The other 50% acknowledge they are constantly learning and asking questions and seeking help and looking for ways to improve. I know which group I would prefer to belong to.

With regards to the original post, a tragic outcome for a young girl who probably loved her horse. She sort help but it still ended tragically. A real shame, I can only hope she seeks another horsey love learning from the experience gained from this loss, it would be even more tragic for her to loose her love of equines.
 
Everyone is different, some like to learn, others think they already know it all and dont need to learn. We have had lots of people sharing ours, most have had a couple of years at a riding school and think they ride pretty well until you put them on a "real" horse in the field, then they find they dont know as much as they thought. I used to help at the riding school as a kid but most of them dont allow that now. I knew the basics like tack/rugs/feeding and worming because it was taught as part of the lesson.
This is where things are going wrong, people are just not being taught these things, most riding schools dont allow pupils to help out.
 
Any true horseman will know that no-body really knows enough about horses to say they have nothing to learn, we are all inexperienced an many many ways. Perhaps we all have a responsibility to foster an environment where we encourage eachother to keep learning, where we share the knowledge we do have, and absorb the knowledge that others offer to share with us.

There are often comments on here about unwanted advice, and people interferring - but maybe, just sometimes, it would be right for us all to swallow our pride and actually think hard, and discuss the advice being offered, and then decide if it could actually make us a better horse owner - my point being that if an "inexperienced" person is around other people who are showing a keeness to learn themselves, in an environment where knowledge is shared with respect and consideration, they will be able to learn so much more without feeling inadequate.
 
Trish C said:
The thing is there's only one way to become experienced. If you ban inexperienced owners from keeping horses there'll come a point when no-one will be experienced enough to own one ;)

It's about making sure there's a good support system around, trying to learn as much as you can, not being afraid to ask for help and, nearly more importantly, WHOM to ask for help.

There's a lovely wee yearling on our yard, and her owner is very inexperienced. However, you will not meet a nicer mannered, better behaved horse, never mind a yearling... she is nearly the best behaved horse on the yard, is an absolute dream to handle and a real credit to the owner. That owner takes every opportunity to learn, spends every second she can reading up on ownership and is not one bit afraid to ask any question at all she feels she needs help with. :)

Again we're lucky as we all keep an eye out for each other, check on every single horse whenever we go into the field and keep in regular contact with other owners, so any problem should get picked up on very quickly.

All of that said, sadly some of the worst cases of neglect I've seen have come from experienced owners. (Of course that DOES NOT mean I'm saying that experienced owners neglect their horses, before someone mis-interprets and jumps on me ;))
Click to expand...

^^ Exactly this. Especially the bit about neglect cases, sad to say.
 
Even the most experienced people learn something new each day .!!
Just because some people maybe inexperienced doesn't mean they don't have a right to own a horse
As long as they have day to day experience and good advice to fall back on I don't see it as a problem !!
 
a post script to the original thread, the owner and family went on holiday for half term left the horse in someone else's care, they and YO were told the horse was lying down a lot in the field all week, nothing was done.... end of week horse dead!
Anyway i'm not against anyone having a horse/pony inexperienced on not they are great companions beside everything else, what I worry about is the inability of some people, and they may be experienced too, is to be able to recognise when a horse is in pain or ill.
I have seen through my own eyes too many children left to their own devices, buy pony, put in livery yard, deliver child to livery yard and bobs your uncle happy child! We are dealing with a living breathing animal and they get sick or inj ured or indeed could injure their owner who is responsible for making sure the animal doesn't suffer through uncaring or ignorant owners?
Pony clubs and riding clubs are great sources of guidance and information and i've seen children and their parents blossom, and horses' welfare cared for, unfortunately it isn't alaways possible for everyone to be members through finance/transport etc.
There are so many livery yards in our area some good some appalling and mixtures of owners so don't please think i'm condeming inexperienced owners i'm not, but i'm sorry if anyone is not capable of recognising a sick or pained animal and doesn't have the means available of someone who does then they shouldn't own one
 
That is apalling.

YO's YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE HORSES ON YOUR YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As do the other muppets on the yard to ensure the health and wellbeing of all equines.

I really, really hope that the vet concerned has informed the RSPCA about this, and that some of action is being taken. You don't need experience to know when a wound is infected, and an animal is ill.

How many people watched this animal die????????????????
 
Last edited:
This

Fany Du Champ said:
I hate threads like this, they make novice owners feel bad and anxious about their horse's welfare.
FDC
Click to expand...

and

elsbells said:
You don't have to be inexperienced to be an ignorant idiot though do you?;)
Click to expand...

You may be "experienced" but if you do it wrong in the first place, you'll have been doing it wrong for god knows how many years! Horse ownership is a CONSTANT learning curve and inexperienced owners are better placed to take advice than know-it-alls.
 
amymay said:
That is apalling.

YO's YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE HORSES ON YOUR YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As do the other muppets on the yard to ensure the health and wellbeing of all equines.

I really, really hope that the vet concerned has informed the RSPCA about this, and that some of action is being taken. You don't need experience to know when a wound is infected, and an animal is ill.

How many people watched this animal die????????????????
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

This goes back to my original opinion or everyone having to take a basic test before owning an animal.

And i'm sorry, in this day and age we have books & the internet, as well as knowledgable friends/YO's, the knowledge is out there for people, they either choose not to find out or think they know better.
 
I think the problem is not so much inexperienced owners, afterall we all have to start somewhere and it should be possible to gain experience along the way. The problem is incompetent/inexperienced/uncaring/ignorant yard owners.

Yard owners have a duty of care to the animals on their property but many yards, especially small DIY yards do not recognise this and may not have a person present with the knowledge required to discharge that duty of care.

Until there is some licencing of livery yards with some standards being required this type of thing is likely to continue to be a problem. Particularly as it is often the sort of owner who use these types of yards that are the problem, often on a tight budget, possibly lacking the experience to recognise their own limitations.

I've been around horses all my life, and when my husband and I bought our first horse, despite our combined years of experience, including exams, courses, reading, and time sharing and working on yards we recognised that having sole charge of a horse is different and a big step. So we made sure that we went to a yard with a good support system in place. We haven't needed it much, but it is very valuable to know that there is someone there to ask if you need it. I was incredibly grateful to have help when about a week in our horse injured herself. The staff on our yard keep an eye on all the horses whether they are DIY or full livery, in fact one of the grooms specifically came over to ask me about my horse's weight the other day because she hadn't seen her without her rug for a while. She's fine, but if there was a problem they would be there to help.

Sadly teenagers who have been having lessons for a few years with unhorsey parents may not recognise their limitations and may in their desparation to get a horse go for a cheap yard with a non-horsey yard owner and no back up. That is where problems can so easily start.

*Disclaimer, I'm not saying all DIY yards are cheap or bad, or that their yard owners are negligent, nor am I implying that all owners of horses on DIY are incompetent. DIY yards can be great for experienced owners, and ones with support on hand can be good for new owners too (we have DIY and full livery on our yard). It is just that this is where horses can slip through the cracks and suffer.
 
A basic test would be just that, basic, it would not and could not cover enough to make much difference. To gain experience and knowledge you need someone with an open and enquiring mind, combined with a healthy amount of common sense.
There have been many threads on here that show a novice/new owner asking sensible questions and getting so many different answers they must be even more confused, so whose opinion do you trust, the vet cannot be called on for everything.
YOs must be more responsible but they are often the cause of some of the issues, just because they own a yard does not always mean they have knowledge and often seem to do things their own way, or as in many DIY yards seem to leave everything to the horse owners with no help offered even if it is required.
The situation the OP has described is very sad, another case of total lack of interest probably with no one taking responsibility, the horse must have slowly deteriorated and its signs of ill health ignored.
 
You should come to my yard, my YO is amazing and very frank, she always lets me know if she feels I am going wrong somewhere. As I said before I have a tendency to over rug/feed my WB because he is a poor doer. She would never allow a horse on our yard to be ill treated and is not afraid to tell you if something is wrong. This is a great way for a YO to be, they have a responsibility to the horses in their care. I would like to hope that they take that responsibility as seriously as mine does. I hope the YO who did not was reported. Poor horse, appalling lack of duty of care.
FDC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top