thoughts on welfare of horses owned by inexperienced people

Subtitute the horse for a baby. Nobody has any knowledge before you have a baby, you can go to all the classes, read the books but alot of people do not, and even if you do read the books everything in life is not textbook. Most sensible people read the books, take advice and ask a proffessional if there is a problem.I think there is more help out there for the new horse owner than the new mum, but you can not force them to take the help.
If they are on a livery yard there should be a contract where the YO has a duty of care/ welfare clause so that they can stop problems at the start.
Whilst I agree you can ride a horse with a punture wound depending where it is when it developed in to septicaemia there should have been signs that perhaps a novice would not have picked up.
 
:D Thanks.

I think sellers have alot to do with it. We had a little fella before we got Jake and when I sold him, I visited the yard where he was going. Got a good vibe from the wee girls mum, she seemed like a real mucker-iner.
I had quite the cheek tbh as I'd only been a pony owner for a year at that point LOL!!

When I see threads like this pop up I cringe as I think, god do I fall into this category??? But I like to think I am proof that not all novice or new-to owners are bad.

What a real shame that the wee girls pony died :( She must of been heart broken :(
 
Anyone who thinks they know it all knows nothing! We are all on a big learning curve from the moment we take on any animal but I do absolutely agree that DIY livery yards are no places for novices. I'm quite happy to deal with a number of veterinary issues myself (although I usually consult a text book or information source pretty promptly) including giving injections but I know my limits. Recently I found my mare with a masively swollen and bloody vulva. She is not mareish and didn't mind me examining her, but since I couldn't determine how far the injury potentially went up inside her and I didn't want to do more harm I immediately called the emergency vet. As it turned out the diagnosis was that she had been bitten by another horse which I probably could have handled myself, but I wasn't happy so I paid (alot!) for an expert opinion. The people I really hate are the ones that know full well something is wrong but refuse to call a vet because basically they don't want a bill. The other ones that rile me are those that have owned a horse for a few years and think they are experienced when in fact they have just been lucky and haven't had to face any real problems, but they just won't accept that in fact they don't know much. I saw a horse with clear colic symptoms but the owner who had had horses for years and years, refused to accept it was colic (no horse of his had ever had colic apparently) and so no vet was called. Luckily for that horse it got better on its own. As to YOs taking responsibility, my horse is on a farm and the owners are complete novices themselves. In fact, I sometimes wonder how they know so little about animal husbandry generally but there we go. We had a new livery move on with 3 and within 2 days almost all the existing liveries had gone steaming mad to the YO due to the deplorable state of the hooves of all the animals (at least 6 months overgrowth). Nothing was done but eventually word got the RSPCA and an inspector came out. The YO lied through their teeth and said they weren't aware there was a problem! Shame the RSPCA didn't get told about all the other way the owner neglects the animals but the YO is earning a a few extra ££s out of them for additional services and won't hear a word against them.
 
We have someone at our yard like this. Long story short, he was in a realtionship with a woman who had 3 Horses. He decided to get his own Horse. The realtionship ended about 3 weeks after his Horse arriving. Ex kicked him off yard so he came to us. Having no clue about Horses. We have had to teach him everything! To putting on a head collar, how to tie up, pick hooves etc. His not had it easy. He has bought an 16.2 18YO WB, poor doer and hasn't been ridden in a year.

YO has been doing the Horse and charging him extra (which he always pays on time to be fair to him) the last couple of weeks he has been doing his Horse again. I sat him down and explained that unless the Horses hay and feed were upped (his nets were tiny and he had a half scoop of senior mix twice a day) he would have a terrible winter. Owner listened and bought new feed (now on sugarbeeet, alpha a, senior mix and oil) also has adlib hay and haylege. I even complimented the owner yesterday and said how well his doing now. Hopefully he has finally turned a corner and will continue to ask for mine and YO's help. I would rather he ask then guess and get it wrong.
 
-Sj- said:
:D When I see threads like this pop up I cringe as I think, god do I fall into this category??? But I like to think I am proof that not all novice or new-to owners are bad.
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Genuine novice owners I dont tend to worry about as I've found they generally want the best for their horse, realise their lack of knowledge and are open to help.

Genuinely experienced owners I also find OK. They tend to know if a situation is beyond their experience and will seek more experienced / professional help.

The group that really worry me (and I'm sure we have all met them) are the ones who think they are experienced but in reality know didly squat. This group will often NOT realise when they have a situation beyond their experience and will bumble along normally to the detriment of the horse.
 
Well, the ones who worry me are the new owners who get horses and then neglect them after they find out how much time, work and money is invloved. The deadliest mix is ignorance and laziness.
 
Cortez said:
Well, the ones who worry me are the new owners who get horses and then neglect them after they find out how much time, work and money is invloved. The deadliest mix is ignorance and laziness.
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Agreed - there are many new owners who have seen the light by the end of their first winter! I often tell people who are talking about buying a horse to consider whether they fancy filling buckets when it is so cold your wellies freeze to the bit that got spilled - day after day. Colleagues and friends gasp when I say I visit my horse both before and after work - "popping up to feed her" takes 1.5 hours due to the distances involved. My weekend lie-in means I get up at 7am instead of 6.

One of the saddest and weirdest cases I know of was a lovely horse that turned up at mine one day. It had a collection of scars and I didn't like the look of its joints and it was clearly lame when ridden. The owner claimed she had been deliberately mislead by a dealer who wouldn't take it back or refund her (and yet she also claimed to have had arabs previously but had to be shown how to put a bridle on, hmmm) but quite happily put her novice teenage children on it. After a few weeks she admitted the lameness so called the vet who said he thought it had been involved in a serious accident and shouldn't be ridden under any circumstances as its pelvis could cause it collapse. Did she take any notice? No, the kids were still riding it. Not long after that she upped and offed to another yard where she told the liveries there that she had come from a yard where we all beat our horses and were cruel to them (95% were in their 20s and 30s so not ridden, far less whipped!) but managed to fall out with the new YOs within a week, to the extent that they had to call the police to escort her off. Some while later someone said they'd seen the horse being ridden from another yard on the road. Clearly she was a complete nutter, but that poor horse deserved so much better.
 
Cortez said:
Well, the ones who worry me are the new owners who get horses and then neglect them after they find out how much time, work and money is invloved. The deadliest mix is ignorance and laziness.
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^^I totally agree. There's a couple on our yard who bought a very highly strung ex-racer as a first horse, now they've realised they can't actually cope with her we hardly see them at the yard. They don't bring her in very often as her teeth are so bad she can't eat hay properly. Vet came out once and said she'd need an operation to enable her to eat properly, however they didn't want to spend the money on it, although they do spend most nights in the pub (probably telling everyone how they own a horse). They will however spend a small fortune on riding gear (although said mare is very rarely ridden) - they are the epitome of the phrase 'All the gear, no idea'....
 
To be fair being a novice owner is definately not the problem. Lets face it we have *all* been novice at some point!!
The problem owners are the very novice owners who take absolutley no notice of helpful advice as they think they know it all.
I have been on DIY yards where there have been people with first horses who would ask for help - great. However, I have come across owners who are not cruel, just totally ignorant, but totally ignore advice from others on the yard. Why this is, I struggle to understand!!
I dont know what the answer to this problem is. I'm sure its not a problem exclusive to the equine world though.
 
I have no issue with inexperienced owners. We were all one once and I'm sure I can't be the only person who still has lots to learn even after all these years.

What I do have an issue with is ignorant owners, whether experienced or inexperienced ones. Who don't bother to give the horses the proper care that they need. Those are the dangerous ones who shouldn't have horses IMHO.
 
I am a yard owner, I have no problem at all with novice owners. What I have is a problem with people who work really hard to retain their level of ignorance and state you are interfering when you offer help. I had one horse here on DIY, it was hanging lame in the field, totally no weight bearing on a hind. It was dragging the leg behind it. I brought it in, it took an age, I called owner and said he needed a vet ASAP. She decided to box rest it for a couple of days, and not call the vet. it improved slightly standing still for 2 days so she turned it out again. Hanging lame and dragging within minutes ( she didn't spot that as she just left him out and went) I brought him in again and insisted she called the vet. She went ballistic, I was interfereing, he was arthritic, needed to walk it off etc. She was so ignorant it never dawned on her that he was more comfortable standing still in the box, and as soon as he moved it became agony. Vet came out at my insistance. Horse had serious stifle injury. needed immediate imobolisation. The next thing I knew she was complaining that I had caused the problem as I brought it in. Luckily I had other liveries who had seen him hanging lame. THen on box rest, she decidedhe needed more weight on, so started with 2 scoops of competition mix a day. He was doing his head in throwing himself around. I stopped her feeding him that, went through with her the whys and wherefores of feed and box rest etc. She ignored me completely. And continued to feed him that. I asked her to leave, she would not take advice, she would not read up on the subject, her horse was suffering as a direct result of her studied ignorance.
Horse care does not require ex[perts, it requires people who are prepared to learn, and anyone who says they know everything is actually very dangerous. You never stop learning. The basics of care and feed are easily available, but still you get people who have no idea what consitutes the basic needs. They must really work hard to be so ignorant.

As a yard owner I welcome people who have a desire to learn, who discuss issues, probloems with vets, farriers, other liveries, and assimilates the best of the information and utilises it for the welfare of their horse.
 
It is a constant learning curve, no matter how many years you've been at it. Unfortunately, you only gain experience half the time through things going wrong that you then have to deal with, BUT if you're so fortunate that nothing ever really does go wrong (wish I could claim that!!!!) then how will you know how to deal with stuff??

I've been around horses a long time, but this year I went out to my mare (kept at home) and she had an arterial bleed. Horrific. Now, I have never dealt with this in my whole horsy life BUT fortunately I have read a helluva lot about it, and so I knew what to do whilst waiting for the vet. But there's no way you can train for something like that until it happens.

But those that just do not give a XXXX make me so angry. One of my neighbours, a solicitor so clearly a clever woman, has left her mare in appalling conditions frequently. The horse has had a very nasty swelling for three weeks, and finally this women decides to get the vet out "because she had the time". The mare has grossly infected mammary glands which, due to being left for three weeks, has now tracked all along her belly and is suppurating through eruptions along the swelling.

Now that is utterly disgraceful. I'll wager there are many far more novice owners out there who would NEVER do such a thing. It's largely about attitude.
 
I have many years experience with horses and ponies and have helped out inexperienced owners often. The main problem i find is the misinterpretation of what it is to 'love' or properly care for the horse. Too many people think a polo, spending lots on rugs and using a baby voice are sufficient. Showing real love and respect to horses (and any animal) is about having a regualr routine which suits the animal, feeding adequate roughage (food), water always available, medical needs attended too and being consistant but fair in your handling and disciplin. If these were taught as basics i think we (the whole horse world) would be a far better place.
 
Bosworth said:
I am a yard owner, I have no problem at all with novice owners. What I have is a problem with people who work really hard to retain their level of ignorance and state you are interfering when you offer help. I had one horse here on DIY, it was hanging lame in the field, totally no weight bearing on a hind. It was dragging the leg behind it. I brought it in, it took an age, I called owner and said he needed a vet ASAP. She decided to box rest it for a couple of days, and not call the vet. it improved slightly standing still for 2 days so she turned it out again. Hanging lame and dragging within minutes ( she didn't spot that as she just left him out and went) I brought him in again and insisted she called the vet. She went ballistic, I was interfereing, he was arthritic, needed to walk it off etc. She was so ignorant it never dawned on her that he was more comfortable standing still in the box, and as soon as he moved it became agony. Vet came out at my insistance. Horse had serious stifle injury. needed immediate imobolisation. The next thing I knew she was complaining that I had caused the problem as I brought it in. Luckily I had other liveries who had seen him hanging lame. THen on box rest, she decidedhe needed more weight on, so started with 2 scoops of competition mix a day. He was doing his head in throwing himself around. I stopped her feeding him that, went through with her the whys and wherefores of feed and box rest etc. She ignored me completely. And continued to feed him that. I asked her to leave, she would not take advice, she would not read up on the subject, her horse was suffering as a direct result of her studied ignorance.
Horse care does not require ex[perts, it requires people who are prepared to learn, and anyone who says they know everything is actually very dangerous. You never stop learning. The basics of care and feed are easily available, but still you get people who have no idea what consitutes the basic needs. They must really work hard to be so ignorant.

As a yard owner I welcome people who have a desire to learn, who discuss issues, probloems with vets, farriers, other liveries, and assimilates the best of the information and utilises it for the welfare of their horse.
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A very good reply. My parents are not horsey at all and I had reletively limited knowledge when I was bought my first pony and I made some hellish mistakes with him. But I had a thirst for knowledge, so I learned and I was also very lucky enough to have a very tolerant and forgiving pony. a super dooper new forest.

I have now been keeping horses for over 40 years and whilst I do not force my advice on people I do offer it where I think there could be a problem. However, as mentioned above some people are just plain ignorant and wont or dont want to be told.

I even had one lady tell me I was joking when I had to phone her to tell her that I had found her horse dead in the field despite me telling her earlier on in the day that her horse was not right and it needed veterinary attention!
 
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I don't think you can blame the young novice owner that the OP has posted about, it sounds like she called a vet and followed their advice, not a welfare concern at all, what is concerning is a YO who is left in charge of a horse while the owner is on holiday and fails to notice is has blood poisoning! that is the welfare issue :mad:
 
What do you call experience???

I would probably class myself as inexperienced and an owner of my first horse! My horse is stabled at my friends house and she too is of similar knowledge level!

However, i have been riding for 12years (plus a 5 year break). During that time i spend 3 years having lessons weekly, then spent 9 years loaning ponies/horses but all of them were on full livery. I have now purchased my own!

To be honest i would call myself inexperienced but if in doubt i know i can seek advice from a very experienced friend who lives within walking distance of my stables. I have my horse registered with the local vet and would always call upon them in doubt. I always research EVERYTHING thoroughly and use common sense! I think its all about being responsible and sensible!!
 
1Lucie said:
What do you call experience???

I would probably class myself as inexperienced and an owner of my first horse! My horse is stabled at my friends house and she too is of similar knowledge level!

However, i have been riding for 12years (plus a 5 year break). During that time i spend 3 years having lessons weekly, then spent 9 years loaning ponies/horses but all of them were on full livery. I have now purchased my own!

To be honest i would call myself inexperienced but if in doubt i know i can seek advice from a very experienced friend who lives within walking distance of my stables. I have my horse registered with the local vet and would always call upon them in doubt. I always research EVERYTHING thoroughly and use common sense! I think its all about being responsible and sensible!!
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You have enough experience, combined with common sense to know when to ask for advice or help, as time goes on your knowledge will grow as you deal with more aspects of horse owning, it really is something that never stops, provided you want to learn.
 
To me, it's not novice owners that are the problem, it's the 'we know best', 'so and so says' and 'I've always done it this way' that can cause problems.
I would class myself as an experienced horse owner/carer, I'm an AI, have worked on several yards in my younger days and have been around horses from the age of 8. No way do I know everything, and will often ask advice...........sometimes I even act on it too :) .
We have a novice lady recently joined us, she's ridden for years, competed at a far higher level than most of us have but she used to share at a yard on totally full livery (the turn up and ride type). Bless her, she doesn't have a clue about loads of things (worming, what size rugs, how much to feed, shoeing, putting a bridle back together) but she really wants to learn and do the right thing by her horse. Luckily, our yard is very friendly and we all get lots of texts from her. On the other hand, she's brilliant to walk a course with and can help you shave seconds off your time in a jump off.
We also have a know it all, I think most yards have at least one..............sadly, hers is the horse who always looks a bit sad and unkempt. Big warmblood who lives out (better for him, he really stresses in) but she only visits in the afternoon as she doesn't like getting up early. He has a huuuuuuuuuuuge feed of happy hoof, she likes the look of it apparently but nowhere near enough 'energy and warmth' food (he wears 2 or 3 big rugs at a time). Plenty of us liveries have offered to feed him in the mornings, offered her sugarbeet/fast fibre but have been rebuffed as 'it's not his routine' and 'he doesn't like boring food'! Sadly, she's been asked to leave several yards over the years and is close to being removed from ours :(
 
-Sj- said:
I'm not ashamed to say.... I am one of those pony owners that most of yous hate!!

My daughter took lessons at a friends yard..... then I bought her a pony!! Having no experience of ever owning a horse or pony!! ( I await my slagging off!) We have been pony owners for a couple of years now.

But... he is well looked after, I am there every day.She is never left alone to do anything with him, I alway help or watch over them. I've read every book/ website I can possibly get my hands on. If I need help I will ask but mostly it is common sense. He wants for nothing but most importantly the YO's are amazing, with 70 years of knowledge between them to draw from. Even having someone to bat ideas about with helps!

Does the above mean I shouldn't have a pony?


He is loved and appreciated. Thats what matters IMO
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I can't fault your approach! - Your daughter had lessons, you encouraged her and bought her a pony, then YOU TOOK AN INTEREST IN THE PONY'S WELFARE! You read books, you research the internet, and you seek advice from more experienced people, this is exactly what we all need to do, and keep doing, no matter how long we have had horses - there is always more to learn!
 
When I bought my daughters pony I had never owned a horse but had loaned a couple. I took advice from the YO that we were on at thet ime and for 18 months took their word on everything. They were fine but 15 years on I actually do things quite differently from them. Not saying they were wrong but I don't rate their advice much nowaday:rolleyes: However how else was I going to learn?

As someone else said if you have one experience of something it may make you more of an expert than someone with no experience of this particular thing. I think you just learn to listen a lot and take what you need from lots of people.
YOs are (or can be) a mine of useful information.

Last week my YO took me quietly on one side because she had been told my youngster was in the school for over an hour. He is 3 and unbroken and was going in for a lunge. It is a new yard and the people do not know us. School is not visible from main yard area. He had not been in this school before and never seen mirrors before. He spent an hour including tacking up and untacking, walking in different directions around the school in hand, admiring himself in the mirrors and exploring the "spooky" end of the school where the deer hide in the woods. He just stood for a while when I was chatting with a friend. He then lunged for 5 minutes on each rein.

When I told the YO she was very appologetic and said she was surprised to think I had lunged him for an hour but was concerned for the horse. I felt no offense at all and said thank you for feeling able to raise her concerns. So no matter what experience you may have it is good to know others look out for you and your horse. I feel an inexperienced owner would do very well with this lady looking out for them. Inexperienced owners are sometimes more open to suggestion than those who "know it all".
 
I think that the most salient point in the OP, is not the inexperience of the young owners but the fact that they are left to get on with it on their own by their parents.

When our parents bought my sister and I our first horse, when we were both teenagers, they considered themselves responsible for his (and our) welfare.
Dad was very hands-on, driving us to the farm where we kept the gelding, helping with the heavy work, researching the best feed, etc etc.
Neither parent was 'horsey', although Grandad had had a horse for his vegetable round when Dad was a boy but we had kept multiple dogs and cats and had plenty of common sense.

I cannot understand the attitude of parents who leave their offspring to do the hard physical work of keeping a horse, often in a remote location, with the sole responsibility for its well-being.
Neither can I understand the 'I told you so' attitude of other horse-owners who watch and wait for things to go wrong. If they do not feel that their advice would be welcomed they should ring Redwings, or some other welfare association, and ask them to make an 'educational' visit.

By the way, I've kept horses for almost 40 yrs (mostly in multiples) and ridden for longer than that and still ask my more experienced friend for advice, when I meet a situation which I haven't encountered before. No-one knows everything and my 70+ yr old 'rode in the womb' ex-RS-owner friend would be the first to admit it.
 
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I am one of those inexperienced owners who bought a pony for her 11 year old daughter! I have ridden for years (as has daughter) but never really done much else with horses. Since getting our pony I have spent hours and hours reading books, looking up things on the internet, posting on forums, asking advice from other liveries at our yard, attending talks etc etc. I can honestly say I now know more about some aspects of 'horse care' than some of the other liveries on our yard who have horses a lot longer, and so does my daughter!! However we still have a huge amount to learn but I think no matter how long you have horses and how experienced you are, there is always more. Our pony can sometimes be a bit strong and bolshy but we muddle through with our groundwork etc and now have our instructor on board to help us through with this. Even had daughter doing her first longlining session last night as she was keen to learn, and pony was really listening to her and going well by the end of the session.

Since having our pony I have learnt to do loads of groundwork exercises, taught myself to longline, researched nutrition and feeding, horse behaviour and psychology, learnt about field management, horse anatomy, first aid for horses and through an unfortunate incident when pony was kicked, learnt how to deal with serious wounds. I think that if someone is committed and open to ideas/suggestions/advice and has common sense there is no reason why they can't look after a horse/pony very well.

My daughter is very independant with our pony and likes to do everything for him but I am usually at the yard to supervise. If I'm not at the yard she's not allowed to bring him out of the field so happily potters about grooming other peoples horses, helping to bring them in from the field, filling haynets etc.

We have had our pony less than a year and for the first 8 months he was at a small yard with just 4 horses which was just a field, small yard and tack room. The YO is 28 and told us on numerous occassions about how experienced with horses she is, with over 20 years exerience of owning and working with them. She is also manageress of a local big horsey shop. She has no idea about worm counts, preventing/treating mud fever and many more aspects. Her horse has terrible teeth and drops his food everywhere yet she didn't want his teeth done when the rest of us arranged for the dentist to come. His saddle doesn't fit and he has a sore back. His behaviour has been getting worse and worse over the months until he has become almost unrideable and his sharer has left. Her other pony, a shetland, had chronic diarhhoea (sp?) last winter for a couple of months and her solution was a starvation paddock with no vet consulted. It has it again now and it's back in the paddock looking extremely sorry for itself. Just one example of an experienced person who's perhaps not doing as good a job of looking after her horses as some of us less experienced peeps.:)
 
This thread has thrown up all sorts of experiences, all very interesting. There are some excellent YO by the sounds of it as I knew there would be, in an ideal world that is how it would be, there are very good parents who take the time to find out more or ask.
I'm just highlighting experiences that I have had and I'm sure I'm not the only one, of the parents who don't know, don't take the trouble to find out and in fact leave their children to it. This person I'm talking about is a lovely person and did her work experience with us, but i have never seen her parents, even when they were a member of the PC, she used to travel with another child's parent. Another example was when she had an accident at a competition, there was nobody with her, she had hacked, a friend had to ring her parents to come and get her to take her to hospital and we ended up taking her horse home and seeing to it at the livery yard.
This is the frightening thing
 
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