Thoughts on Whitaker Jumping Saddle?

[Stacey_xo]

So I’m a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place, the rock being my sister and the hard place being the saddler.

So recently my sisters horse has been playing up and bucking which is out of character for him, she decided to check his saddle and get his back checked, so the saddler came out and confirmed his saddle is a bit of a poor fit, it’s a Whitaker Close Contact Jump Saddle, the saddler said that he doesn’t like these saddles and they aren’t good for horses backs, and recommended a second hand jumping saddle he had in his van (not sure of the brand, he didn’t say and I can’t find it, it has a gold P on a black background?).
He said he can make the Whitaker saddle fit better but in the long run it’ll never be perfect.
The cost of this other saddle is £800 which I know isn’t awful, but my sister doesn’t have that money right now and is being very stubborn about selling the Whitaker one as she likes it.
She was working on the day the saddler came to fit the horse so I’ve been the one speaking to him, we’ve both tried the saddle he recommended as we both ride the horse and the horse is still bucking but not as bad (he’s now been seen by the physio too).

My sister is adamant she just wants the Whitaker one re-fitted and said she’ll look at getting one that fits better in the future, I’ve relayed this to the saddler but he’s also not budging on the fact that we should buy the saddle he recommended or try another one he has, and was getting very frustrated with me (even though it’s not my decision), so I suggested that the next time he visits the yard (he visits regularly to see to the other liveries) that he speaks to her directly and maybe she’ll change her mind about it as I have explained everything he has told me but she won’t listen to me.

My biggest question here really though is are the Whitaker jumping saddles really that bad? The saddler won’t even do a part exchange and said he doesn’t deal with those saddles so we would have to sell it separately before getting a new one anyway, the Whitaker one cost her around £800 and is 5 months old. If the saddler was to change the gullet and even flock if required, is he correct in saying it’ll continue making the horses back sore?

I’m a bit stuck as when speaking to the saddler he seemed very pushy on us buying one from him after I asked how much the re-fitting would be, I’d like to be able to trust and take his advice no questions asked but either he’s very concerned for the happiness of my sisters horse or he’s trying to make a sale and I’d really like a second opinion.

 

[sbloom]

Have you researched the fitter, seen whether you'd be happy going with his recommendations? It's always difficult when the rider, or bill payer (or both) isn't there at a saddle fitting and ultimately it's going to cost him more time to have to speak to a second person about his recommendation.

I'm not a great fan of foam panelled saddles, JW pony saddles can work for some I think, but I understand him not liking them. I would ask him to tell you why the JW is wrong, and exactly what the saddle is that he's recommending - you can read up a little and see what you think of the brand, confirm whether it's likely to be the sort of saddle that would fit your particular horse.

Scrimping now, and using a saddle that genuinely doesn't fit (why does she believe it CAN be refitted, especially as it can't have a panel adjustment?), is likely to cost her more in the long term.

 

[Stacey_xo]

Have you researched the fitter, seen whether you'd be happy going with his recommendations? It's always difficult when the rider, or bill payer (or both) isn't there at a saddle fitting and ultimately it's going to cost him more time to have to speak to a second person about his recommendation.

I'm not a great fan of foam panelled saddles, JW pony saddles can work for some I think, but I understand him not liking them. I would ask him to tell you why the JW is wrong, and exactly what the saddle is that he's recommending - you can read up a little and see what you think of the brand, confirm whether it's likely to be the sort of saddle that would fit your particular horse.

Scrimping now, and using a saddle that genuinely doesn't fit (why does she believe it CAN be refitted, especially as it can't have a panel adjustment?), is likely to cost her more in the long term.

No we haven’t researched him, our livery yard uses him and he regularly visits so we’re going off their recommendations, however everybody confirms that whenever they get a fitting he usually recommends a saddle from him so it does make me wonder whether it’s genuine or not.

The saddle is adjustable, and the saddler has said he can fit it better but it’ll never be perfect and may cost more in the long term and the horse will still be sore. I’m obviously not an expert but why do these saddles even exist if they are that bad?

I’ve recommended that she just go with what the saddler recommends but as the saddle is adjustable anyway and he’s already said he can re-fit it I think she’s just focusing on that fact to save some money, however I am also slightly dubious about the saddler, especially because when I spoke to him today he was quite pushy about the whole thing and wouldn’t really let me get a word in.

 

[sbloom]

If he says he can refit it that seems rather contradictory, though there is no such thing as "the perfect fit" so it is a grey area. However, I don't feel he should be adjusting a saddle that would still make a horse sore.

I would read around about him. Obviously most saddle fitters carry large stocks of used saddles of all sorts of brands but I'd want to know if he's independent, represents a brand, has as good a reputation as your yard thinks...

So overall, it's critical to have a saddle that doesn't make a horse sore, whether the JW really WILL is a matter of opinion/prediction. It's not that they would make all horses sore with all horse/rider combos, there isn't a single saddle that will work for all horses/riders, but as fitters we all have our preferences, types of trees/panels that we think work better for horses and for that reason you can be sure that the fitter will probably get better results with saddles they like.

Decide whether she wants to actually use him, and if she does, go with his advice. If not, get a second opinion, or do as much reading as you can and do a very basic check yourselves. The biggest problem I see is that the middle of the saddle is usually too narrow and curvy, the outer edge of the panels contact the horse but the inner edge doesn't, and foam panels can be very firm and don't conform even as much as a wool panel. You end up with pressure and pivot. Be sure you know the signs of discomfort under a saddle, and I would also have the horse's back checked if there's a current fitting issue with the saddle, before having a new one fitted. And then don't ride in the old one if it is a problem, bareback and groundwork only.

 

[Stacey_xo]

If he says he can refit it that seems rather contradictory, though there is no such thing as "the perfect fit" so it is a grey area. However, I don't feel he should be adjusting a saddle that would still make a horse sore.

I would read around about him. Obviously most saddle fitters carry large stocks of used saddles of all sorts of brands but I'd want to know if he's independent, represents a brand, has as good a reputation as your yard thinks...

So overall, it's critical to have a saddle that doesn't make a horse sore, whether the JW really WILL is a matter of opinion/prediction. It's not that they would make all horses sore with all horse/rider combos, there isn't a single saddle that will work for all horses/riders, but as fitters we all have our preferences, types of trees/panels that we think work better for horses and for that reason you can be sure that the fitter will probably get better results with saddles they like.

Decide whether she wants to actually use him, and if she does, go with his advice. If not, get a second opinion, or do as much reading as you can and do a very basic check yourselves. The biggest problem I see is that the middle of the saddle is usually too narrow and curvy, the outer edge of the panels contact the horse but the inner edge doesn't, and foam panels can be very firm and don't conform even as much as a wool panel. You end up with pressure and pivot. Be sure you know the signs of discomfort under a saddle, and I would also have the horse's back checked if there's a current fitting issue with the saddle, before having a new one fitted. And then don't ride in the old one if it is a problem, bareback and groundwork only.

I don’t believe he represents any one brand as he usually has a variety of brands, I’ve read reviews on him now and they are all positive which gives me a bit more faith and I’ve spoken to my sister who has said she’ll look at getting a second opinion though.

We have done a basic check ourselves and it is a bit wide so there’s no issue with believing the saddler there, however the horse doesn’t have any rub marks, bumps or grey hairs in his saddle or girth area so it remains a bit of a mystery of whether the saddle is the cause of the horse bucking as he has still bucked it since having his back checked and a physio go over it, and with the new supposedly better fitting saddle.

The issue really is as you said, it’s contradictory for him to say he can adjust the old saddle but be pushing to buy a different saddle all together, he said he can’t make the old one fit like another he has but I’m not really sure why, and why he even offered to re-adjust the old one if the horse would still be sore.

I will definitely explore further with him for his reasonings, and my sister will get a second opinion.

Thank you for your replies!

 

[MuddyMonster]

If the horse is still bucking, I'd be inclined to get a vet look at him first before trying other saddles.

 

[sbloom]

Bucking doesn't need lumps and bumps to cause it, a saddle tipping back and/or sitting on the shoulder blades is the most common saddle related cause.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I know someone who sells them so have seen a fair few she has had and to be honest I am not keen on them, they don't look very well made and I think for that money you can definitely get better.

I certainly wouldn't use it if it was making my horse uncomfortable.