Thoughts on Xrays

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lacey111

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Right, not sure If anyone will be able to view these xrays, I have managed to work out how to add them to an album!

Wondered if anyone with hoof xray experience had any thoughts on these. They are of my friends 5yr old TB. currently in on box rest as lost both front shoes and as hoof so poor farrier could not get shoes back on as nothing to nail to.

X-rays were done July time this year If I remember rightly

Thanks!





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I am no expert on radiographs but I am reasonably certain that the horse has very worrying lucidity (darker, see through bits) in the pedal bone which should not be there. Including HUGE notches at the toe. On one foot in particular (first view) the toe is at a horrific angle and there is evidence of P3 rotation (dropping away from the wall). If that horse is sound when he has his shoes on, but is only five, I would not expect him to stay sound much longer :(
 
mmm,,, been googling and the vascular channels and p3 quality are possibly normal, depending on what intensity was used for the radiographs.... toe in first one is still at a horrendous angle and lameness fears not changed!
 
RF is clearly the most severely affected. There is rotation of P3, which I haven't measured but I would estimate is around 6-10 degrees, so not too severe. This rotation is primarily capsular not phalangeal. There doesn't appear to be any sinking of P3, although without a coronary band marker one can't be certain.
P3 also shows some signs of this being a chronic problem - there is remodelling of the dorsal surface into a slight convex shape. Interestingly chronic laminitics will often have some P3 resorption at the tip, but this x-ray actually appears to show the opposite, with a radiodense extension. I imagine this is why the two DPr-PaDi-60 x-rays (the last two) were taken. In the first of these obliques the opacity does still seem to be present. Not certain what this is.

Foot balance is poor, especially in the RF, but also in the LF and to an extent in the hind feet. Toe needs to be trimmed back on the RF, and all feet need shoeing with more heel support, likely a bar shoe such as a heartbar. Bearing in mind the poor foot quality you report, I would suggest either a plastic glue on shoe, e.g. Imprint, or one of the newer stick on metal shoes I can't remember the name of, that hold on with a length of casting material.

The opacities in P3 are vascular channels. Although some P3 resorption may be taking place, we would expect this to be much more pronounced in the RF vs the LF, and yet the amount of opacity is pretty much identical between the two.
 
Any ideas what could have caused this?

Friend bought horse nearly a year ago, was sound when she tried him and sound for a few months after then started losing shoes and going lame. Spoken again to friend and appears he had a run in with electric fencing spring last year which got wrapped around right leg/fetlock/pastern area. Apparently made quite a mess and cuts were quite deep. she mentioned something about vet mentioning blood supply to foot, but was a mention only and nothing more was said or done about it by vets so my friend didn't think to worry.

Now worrying that has actually affected blood supply, though whether that could have caused problems? We haven't a clue :-(

Feet look better shaped now is in without shoes on the fronts, has been without for 9 ish weeks now. Toes have been taken back, current farrier was concerned to take back too far before x-rays as didn't know what he was chopping into, current farrier also seems reluctant to try support shoes as horse pulls them off very very easily and we then risk not getting shoes on at all due to little hoof growth. My farrier however wants to try 4 point shoes? he has copies of x-rays also and we are waiting to hear back from him on his thoughts.

Just don't know what to do, also wondered about thoughts on the actual x-rays themselves, are they sufficient? Useful? missing information? (no coronary marker has been mentioned to me by experienced "friend" aswell as on here. Someone also pointed out that shoes prob's should have been taken off to get clearer picture?

Thanks in advance, friend getting rather upset now as does not know what to do next or for the best. Think also going to get another opinion from diff vet.

Any recommendations on good equine vets in Derbyshire? can PM me
 
Has your friend read all the barefoot stuff? Recommend Pete Ramey on the web, Jaime Jackson, Barker and Braithwaite ('Feet First'), and the EasyCare hoofboot website.
 
Bought hoof boots a few weeks ago, managed to use them twice due to weather to try and give him a little wander around, and has been in small sand paddock when ever soft outside his stable just to stretch his legs :-(
 
Just beware that sand is not good for brittle hooves and turnout in a grass/mud paddock would be better than in a sand school.
As for the above, I agree with Alsiola for the most part. Good summation of the issues here.
 
Sand is great for barefooters, conformable and gently abrasive.

The injury is interesting. I have a barefooter with a serious pastern injury, with a scar around about 50% of the circumference which looks as if it was stapled before I got him (from attempting to hack his foot off in a lorry window, it's a family trait!). That foot always grows a longer toe than the other and I have no doubt at all that if I had him shod at 6 week intervals he would have a foot looking like your xrays.

If possible, I would try to get his horse barefoot and trim that foot on a very frequent basis to control the runaway toe. If you have him trimmed by a professional, I would get them to teach you how to trim that foot every couple of weeks, and have them check your work at a normal interval. If he stays shod, I think you may need to change your farrier, the one that you have is failing to control the length of toe on that foot or give support to the heels.
 
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If the pastern/fetlock injury had significantly compromised blood supply then you would have seen far more dramatic effects, think skin/hoof sloughing and necrosis. I highly doubt this is the cause.
Essentially what we have is a single foot laminitis. This can be caused by all the same things as a 2/4 foot laminitis. Even conditions such as EMS, which one would think would cause similar changes to all feet, can cause disease in one foot alone.
Re: taking shoes off to x-ray, this is referring to the final two views. They are normally taken to look at the navicular bone and for this purpose shoes are normally removed. In this case I feel your vet was probably more interested in the pedal bone. Also, in a foot that is difficult to shoe, and has changes like we see, I would have left them on as well, until farrier could come and replace.
I don't think the farrier is at fault for the toe length. Without x-rays he is right to be cautious, obviously we don't want to rasp back the pedal bone by mistake! I would certainly not be managing this horse barefoot.
 
Farrier was waiting to see results of xrays before taking toe back and shoeing differently as was concerned he way cause more damage. He now takes toes back and has been trying to shoe differentlty

Have since spoken to current vet again to get exact thoughts on whether problem could be lami, and if it is worth trying. Happen to mention was going to get insurance involved. Suddenly vet changes tune completely and says "well, with remedial shoeing we should start to see an improvement after 2-3 shoeings" after stating when xrays were done in August that no hope for horse and might aswell give up.

Turns round and says "didnt realise you were insured???" Then becomes very pushy constantly ringing friend asking her to make appointment with remedial farrier and comes out with "we need to start treatment as soon as possible". If its that urgent why did he not suggest this when xrays were done back in August? Friend refused and said wants to make sure claim being accepted 1st as hasn't the money to start spending. A different vet looked at xrays and said looks like laminitis aswell.

Getting very very angry at current vet as messed me around with my horse and 3 other friends have suffered from his rudeness and seemingly incompetance.

Thoughts?!

Also wanted reccomendations on Equine vets in Derbyshire, happy to travel to see a good, decent vet who will tell us the truth and stop wasting time, money and the horses health.
 
My heart goes out to you. Been there worn the t-shirt on that one several times for various things.

I'd be concerned about the ability of a hoof care professional that can't 'see' a foot without an x-ray.

x-rays have their place as diagnostic tools and if I ever had a horse shod I'd want it x-rayed afterwards to make sure no nails had gone through the foot, but for trimming not so much.
 
Sand is great for barefooters, conformable and gently abrasive.
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Yes - but paradoxically enough often not for laminitics with compromised soles. We found ours were more comfortable on pea gravel rather than sand - and when they got in deep sand they could hardly move.

Sand, is I think for these guys, too conforming. If that makes sense.

When our Bramble was first turned out after his major lami event - he loved the 5 ton sand pile to lie in and bury his feet - warm on top cool under the surface - clever chap! But when he was standing and walking he preferred the pea rock.

Sounds like you need another vet too. That horse needs these shoes off to let his feet recover, and access to a supportive surface.
 
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