Thoughts please on feeding a ...

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Big (17.2), aged (20) middleweight sportshorse with cushings. He is retired and lives out on sparse grazing, ad lib good quality hay and access to a dry barn which he uses regularly to sleep and eat his hay in. He is rugged according to the weather conditions.

He has maintained a nice weight through the summer being fed Veteran Vitality (A&P), speedibeet, unmollassed chaff and one mug of linseed twice a day. In the last six weeks he has dropped a lot of weight and his horn quality is very poor. He is bright in himself but if the ground dries up he will be footy again.

He is on prescend and bloods have been taken earlier this week and I am desperately hoping nothing sinister is on it way back in the results. Liver and kidney results back and fine. Waiting for the rest.

So whilst I am worrying about my much loved horse I just wondered if any of you have or are keeping this type of horse and might be able to give me thoughts on how you feed them. Quantities would be useful as well as brand recommendations or avoidance.

If only Father Time could be controlled and our wonderful old horses defy time.
 
I'd probably swap the unmol chaff to a alfa oil or similar.

Then just up the feed quantity (if possible, not sure how much he is getting at the moment), or add in an additional feed.

It may be that he just needs his prascend dosage increasing a bit, the blood work should tell you that
 
Up the linseed? I think you can feed upto 100grams per 100 kilo of bodyweight. Might want to check that just to be sure though
 
Thank you. I have been told not to worry about and I am trying my best ! I am expecting the prescend to be adjusted and then the vet will review his nutrition plan, hopefully to include haylage. The horse has turned his nose up at Alpha A but he might like the oil one. If he doesn't like it the others will soon down it.

I won't change anything until the rest of the results are back and the vet guides me.
 
I have an old pony with cushings and he started to drop weight this summer quite noticeably. I had his bloods done and his levels were very high so we increased the pergolide and within 3 weeks he looked 100% better. I believe that if their steroid production is high it destroys muscle (I may be completely wrong about this) and also if they are not feeling great obviously they will loose weight. Hopefully it will turn out to be his levels and an increase in his medication should solve the problem.

Old age is a cruel thing in people and animals, it doesn't come alone sadly.
 
My 18+ TB has started dropping weight and muscle tone, neg for cushings, he's currently on two hefty meals a day, calm and condition, easy beet, linseed and unmollased chaff with ad lib hay, hasn't lost any more weight but hasn't gained either, rugged now at night, short of giving him three meals a day, I'm running out of ideas, his general condition is first class, bright of eye and gleaming coat, any suggestions welcome
 
flirtygerty said:
My 18+ TB has started dropping weight and muscle tone, neg for cushings, he's currently on two hefty meals a day, calm and condition, easy beet, linseed and unmollased chaff with ad lib hay, hasn't lost any more weight but hasn't gained either, rugged now at night, short of giving him three meals a day, I'm running out of ideas, his general condition is first class, bright of eye and gleaming coat, any suggestions welcome
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Wasn't there a recent (ish) thread about Calm and Condition not putting condition on/not maintaining condition ?

You could try equi jewel.
 
I have a 24 year old with cushings so I feel your pain!

During the Summer it's a struggle to keep weight off and during the Winter it's a struggle to keep weight on!

During the Summer she has Bailey's Lo Cal and a tiny bit of Hi Fi Lite. In the Autumn we add speedibeet on colder days and as the weather really sets in we change the speedibeet to Fast Fibre and add veggie oil.

Our 20 year old poor doer of a Welsh D is on Veteran Vitality and Fast Fibre. Alphabeet is MUCH better for weight gain but it sends her doolally unfortunately! If your boy is retired so riding a snorting dragon isn't an issue I would definately recommend changing the speedibeet to Alphabeet. :)
 
Just had fabulous news, my wonderful big boy has not got worse and his prescend can be reduced slightly. Slightly
anaemic but that is it. Just got to put a safe nutrition plan together now. What a relief, I am so happy.
 
My favourite food for weight gain is ERS Pellets - low starch low sugar (I believe 7% combined) and 13MJ/kg and pretty dense, soya oil based. My lad put on about 50kg in three months on it, went from a hatrack to a WB impersonator. It is designed for horses that tie up, and a friend of mine uses it for her laminitic TB as well as low sugar but keeps the weight on him over winter without feeding sugar.

That and alfa-oil, plus beet and a balancer is how I keep my poor doer over winter.
 
khalswitz said:
My favourite food for weight gain is ERS Pellets - low starch low sugar (I believe 7% combined) and 13MJ/kg and pretty dense, soya oil based. My lad put on about 50kg in three months on it, went from a hatrack to a WB impersonator. It is designed for horses that tie up, and a friend of mine uses it for her laminitic TB as well as low sugar but keeps the weight on him over winter without feeding sugar.

That and alfa-oil, plus beet and a balancer is how I keep my poor doer over winter.
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Thank you, forgive my ignorance I have never heard of them. Do you have to soak them and who makes them please ?
 
AdorableAlice said:
Just had fabulous news, my wonderful big boy has not got worse and his prescend can be reduced slightly. Slightly
anaemic but that is it. Just got to put a safe nutrition plan together now. What a relief, I am so happy.
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Thats really positive news, getting them stable can be hard, now to get the diet sorted and keep him well.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Thank you, forgive my ignorance I have never heard of them. Do you have to soak them and who makes them please ?
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You don't have to soak, they're like a cube, just serve damp. D&H makes them - it's a racehorse feed for TBs that tie-up, so it's super high energy but the lowest starch and sugar high energy feed I was able to find to fuel my PSSM , poor-doing event prospect (haven't eventide him yet just due to starting my own business but he's done 3 ft XC and certainly XC fit!!!). Had a Baileys nutritionist round two days ago, and even she said to keep him on that - and that's a competitor talking.

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/our-feeds/ailments/tying-up/ers-pellets.html
 
ester said:
http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/our-feeds/ailments/tying-up/ers-pellets.html

fwiw the copra does have a higher DE (15 I think) and some people have issues feeding too much soya oil - but I can't remember exactly what that is/why!
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The thing with DE is that it's by weight - how dense is the copra? For example alfa-a oil has the same DE as ERS, but ERS is much denser so higher energy per scoop. So high DE but low density means you feed more to notice the difference in DE.
 
Interesting, thanks guys. Do the ERS pellets make them giddy ? My lad can be silly if something winds him up and he is capable of gate hopping off two strides of trot if the fancy takes him.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Interesting, thanks guys. Do the ERS pellets make them giddy ? My lad can be silly if something winds him up and he is capable of gate hopping off two strides of trot if the fancy takes him.
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Hasn't mine, although I believe PS's horse was a bit loopy on them - there's mixed opinions. It's all slow-release energy not non-heating, but is high energy so if extra calories sends him excited then could do.
 
khalswitz said:
Hasn't mine, although I believe PS's horse was a bit loopy on them - there's mixed opinions. It's all slow-release energy not non-heating, but is high energy so if extra calories sends him excited then could do.
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Thank you. He had spillers slow release competition mix when he was working and didn't get silly so I think the ERS cubes are worth a try.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Thank you. He had spillers slow release competition mix when he was working and didn't get silly so I think the ERS cubes are worth a try.
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No probs. I was so stuck with what to feed my horse last year, despite three huge feeds a day he just kept losing weight... this sorted him right out. However I also learned to cut them right back in the summer as he was fairly packing the weight on then!!!
 
Starbucks said:
Could you move him onto better grass or try swapping to hayledge?
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Yes I can now the tests are back. He has always done well on haylage and has more of an appetite for it than for hay, even though my hay is superb quality this year. I have a small area of grass saved for him which is under a huge oak. The acorns are almost down and a good rake will be done shortly. I can't let him into large fields because he has a major check injury which is stable at the moment but might not stand a massive hooley in a big field.

At least now I know he is not going downhill with the cushings I can look at his diet and try to establish how to feed him. I have found the Veteran and Vitality a problem with the quantities. Once it is soaked it is a vast quantity, I realise it is 1 part pellets and 2 parts water and is safe to leave with the horse to 'graze' on it over a period of time, but my lad gets over faced and will leave feed regardless of what it is, if the bucket is too full. Once he has left it that is it.

I had the same problem when he was poorly a while ago, I used Rowan and Barberry in the red bag. He loved it but any more than half a stubbs scoop, which would be 1 1/2lb max dry weight and he would leave it. At 17.2 and around 770kg he needs more that a few pounds of feed a day.

I can ring my hayman at 8am and get a big bale in this morning so hopefully with a week of mixing hay and haylage for him we will be heading in the right direction. Bucket feed wise, I am thinking ERS pellets, alpha oil, alphabet, linseed and Senior Pink Powder. How do you reckon that sounds ?
 
khalswitz said:
The thing with DE is that it's by weight - how dense is the copra? For example alfa-a oil has the same DE as ERS, but ERS is much denser so higher energy per scoop. So high DE but low density means you feed more to notice the difference in DE.
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yup i know - hence i feed in weights it's dense as very fine iirc not unlike micro linseed but obv not pressed into pellets. You do have to soak though.
 
ester said:
yup i know - hence i feed in weights it's dense as very fine iirc not unlike micro linseed but obv not pressed into pellets. You do have to soak though.
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Could be a good combination then? The copra and the pellets? That way you are feeding as much of the high energy feed as possible, however not over facing him with a huge soaked feed, and 'filling' it with high energy pellets. Keeps it nice and moist for a veteran as well.

AA I think that sounds like a good mix - I had my lad on very similar, alfa-oil, ERS, alfa-beet and balancer, as I never needed to feed up to the full amount (he gained crazy weight on half a scoop of pellets, half a scoop of alfa-a oil and a cup dry alfa-beet twice daily).

One thing to point out is that Alfa-beet is 10.5MJ/kg (I feed my lad this) however Speedibeet is 12MJ/kg. You can feed more Alfa-beet if they graze on it so can get more energy overall, however if he doesn't then you'll might be best off with Speedibeet as will be more calories, and obv still starch free and low sugar.
 
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khalswitz said:
Could be a good combination then? The copra and the pellets? That way you are feeding as much of the high energy feed as possible, however not over facing him with a huge soaked feed, and 'filling' it with high energy pellets. Keeps it nice and moist for a veteran as well.

AA I think that sounds like a good mix - I had my lad on very similar, alfa-oil, ERS, alfa-beet and balancer, as I never needed to feed up to the full amount (he gained crazy weight on half a scoop of pellets, half a scoop of alfa-a oil and a cup dry alfa-beet twice daily).

One thing to point out is that Alfa-beet is 10.5MJ/kg (I feed my lad this) however Speedibeet is 12MJ/kg. You can feed more Alfa-beet if they graze on it so can get more energy overall, however if he doesn't then you'll might be best off with Speedibeet as will be more calories, and obv still starch free and low sugar.
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Thanks, He is now carefully separating the third haylage from the two thirds hay that I have mixed up for him. Also gave him a small amount of Alpha Oil which he is viewing with suspicion but is nibbling a little of it. Cleared his bucket of 1.5kg veteran vitality with a little speedibeet, took him an hour to do it. I have two bags of speedibeet so will stick with that for the time being.

ERS pellets to be sourced today.
 
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