Thoughts please

[doodle]

I have no idea what to think so sorry if this is long.
Robin has been more out of work than in for the last couple of months. When he has been ridden he has been great. Last tues I had his teeth done and they were bad. He was also fully clipped. Since then he has been lunged off the headcollir only and has been good.
Yesterday I rode him in the school. Fine to get on and walk about. Asked him to try and he was backwards and shuffly. Tried a few times getting same response. Asked a friend to take off his exersize sheet as I have never actually ridden him in one. Asked her to watch. She said he was dragging his hind feet which he does when being lazy but that he looked even. She handed me a short whip, i don't think I have ever carried one with him. He perked up, started trotting out. He actually then went very well, perhaps not as round as he could be in right rein. I put it down to him being lazy, bored of the school and a bit cheeky.

Today I was running out of light as had planned to hack so went in school. Fine to get in and walking round, we walk for a good while to start. Soft and round and felt good. Asked for trot, head right up and tossing, shuffling and refusing to go forward. He then bucked which he has NEVER done in the year I have had him. I immediately stopped and having had a bad day burst into tears convinced he was very broken. Friend in school at same time stopped and said she would watch. Sh asked him to trot again. No bucks but head up shuffling and not going forward. More tears.

Walked round on long rein quite the thing. So got another livery who is a very good rider to get on him. She has never ridden him but has seen him ridden. Walked out nicely. Asked him to trot, he was a bit lazy but she pushed him on and he went well. She felt nothing wrong apart from being lazy. I got back on and he was much better, slightly slow off leg first few strides but then went nicely.

So I don't know if there is an issue or if he was being lazy. He can be a bit lazy but not to that extent. She thinks he took advantage of my panicking that he was broken and backing off him. Instead of putting my leg on.

He is due physio next months. I could do with getting saddle checked but my saddler died. Up until he had his teeth done and clipped he was keen and forward and working really well. Surely if related timbering clipped he would be more fresh or jumpy. And why would teeth now not causing pain cause that (he wasn't showing any signs of issues in his mouth when ridden before tho)

 

[Sukistokes2]

He has been out of work and if you have clipped have to clipped the saddle area? Either are enough to alter the fit of the saddle. Get him checked out saddle wise asap.

 

[doodle]

Yes saddle area clipped. He isn't terribly hairy tho don't sure it would change saddle fit to have such a change in a week. That said I got him last year and he was clipped but I didn't do the clipping so don't know how he reacted.

 

[serena2005]

How is he to tack up? Taking off /putting on rugs? Any other changes to his routine, diet etc?

 

[doodle]

Absolutely fine to tack up and tighten girth. Opens mouth for bit. He is just in a loose ring lozenge. No change in routine that I can think of. My other wonder is he still dosnt have shoes on back feet, they are more worn at the toe so is this causing him discomfort?

 

[doodle]

There was a marked change in him when I picked up stick then when livery got on and told him to get on with it. Is this because he is actually a very kind obliging horse and so is putting up with something. Or is it because he was being lazy and clever and worked it how to make me back off?

 

[Sukistokes2]

Not going forward and shuffley would suggest the saddle tipping forward and putting pressure on the shoulder area. If you then add a whip in to the equation it can over ride the pressure or pain from the saddle as they are focused on the whip. You said horse had been off work and would therefore have lost muscle altering the fit of the saddle. That would alway be my first port of call , rather then thinking of ulcers, which will be suggested next.
If you think it's to do with the teeth , ring the vet/dentist and ask some questions.
Horses can change in a week by the way, esp if they are suddenly actually able to masticate their food appropriately.
Hope you find out what it is.

 

[serena2005]

What breed is he?

He sound very much like mine and my friends horse who both are expected to have stomach ulcers

 

[doodle]

Right will try and track down a saddler. I could try in his other saddle too. He had 2 months off then 2 months being ridden once or twice a week. He actually showed very little signs of issues with his teeth, still eating etc but very very cross at myself for not picking up sooner, although had been a year since last done vet thinks he will need done every 6 months.
I do wonder about ulcers as soli had then. But he is fed adlib hay, grass and a scoop of hifi molasses free, he can have his moments in stable if he is in alone but is generally so laid back he stands with his eyes shut over the door.

 

[doodle]

He is a warm blood.

 

[serena2005]

I had issues with my horse on and off for years, had the saddler every 6 months, teeth are done every 4 months (as she has extremely bad teeth and it's the only way to keep on top of it) I had osteopaths, chiropractors and Physio's when she was having her episodes. She would improve for a while then turn into the devil again, and I would get everyone out again!

Rule everything out to give you piece of mind.

 

[wench]

For peace of mind, I'd start with that cheaper options of getting a saddler out and back checked before doing anything else

 

[rifruffian]

Thoughts please?

Review the physical, mental and emotional state of the rider/handler prior to any session with the horse.

If that status is not A-1, leave the horse appointment until a better time.

 

[cobgoblin]

Did he have a lot of work done on his teeth? You are assuming that his teeth are not causing him pain now but I would wonder if there is something bothering him there.

 

[doodle]

I put my hand up now and admit that mentally I am not great. And I selfishly thought I would feel better for a ride. And yesterday I did once he got going. Today I did panic and backed right off him immediately we trotted. I would love that to be the reason rather than an issue.

Re his teeth he had hooks on the top front teeth. The left side had caused cuts to his cheek. These were removed. He also had a very small wolf tooth removed. We didn't think it was causing problems (and knew about it) but decided to take it out. Vet said give him a week without a bit in and so I either lunged from headcollor or free which he seemed to enjoy and I didn't have to push him forward.

 

[doodle]

New saddler tracked down and booked to come next time she is in the area. Vet coming on yard on Tuesday so will check his mouth again then. The girl who events him rode him is at, he was sluggish to start in trot for about half a circle then went nicely. I think he has been taking advantage of my worry that something is wrong BUT she rode in gp saddle rather than dressage so wil stick with gp until saddler been.

 

[Theocat]

It might be worth getting the vet to have a look at him moving, if they're seeing him anyway. Mine had a spell of "not right" but was fine when worked properly (rather than me backing off in a panic!) But it turned out to be the beginning of hock arthritis. I'm not saying it's that - just that it certainly sounds as though there's something, and if the vet's available you might as well check with them.

 

[Corbie]

Sounds like Robin's in discomfort pain to me. He may look even but if short strides, reluctant and tossing head up when asked to trot, classic reaction to pain or discomfort. How is he on hard or stony ground, is he footy or normal? How about when being turned tightly - any reluctance? Pulses raised in any of his feet at all? If you know him well, then trust that there is an issue of some sort when he behaves and moves so differently, not laziness. Oh perhaps you could tell the forum his age and why he has been off work mostly last two months, that might help?

 

[doodle]

He is 10. He got white line disease so had it cut out and shoes off. He then had 2 months off. Feet improved but still without shoes so was ridden once or twice a week in the school. He got front shoes on about 4 weeks ago so he was doing a bit more ridden work. He was going really nicely. He then has his teeth done almost 2 weeks ago. Had a week of lunging in a hwadcollor and it has been when he has been ridden after that. Fine to turn tightly. He is not footy but I wondered if back feet which are still without shoes are feeling sore. Back shoes on in 2 weeks. I didn't think to check for pulses tho. Isla rode him yesterday but I haven't asked what she did and how he was. Will ask her now. Thought I would go for a short hack today and have a wee trot and see what he does.

 

[Corbie]

Very interesting. Stretched white line often occurs with laminitis. My pony has had episodes of laminitis due to EMS, so have to be really vigilant with her. Her acute episode occurred in early December before I had her during a mild winter.
She presents with raised pulses only in her two hinds and only if got worse would it extend to all four feet. I haven't had her long and am still on a learning curve with managing this, but having been through this first winter with her without being able to feel any pulses whatsoever, have only this past week been for ride and she felt exactly as you described Robin. Fine in walk but as soon as asked for trot reluctant, short strided, and then putting head up suddenly to resist. Ended up leading her back and when I checked her over felt very slight raised pulses in hinds. Her field looks bare from winter but obviously realise springtime has had its effect already on that grass. Back to super restricted turnout for her now. Not saying this is what your horse has of course but it's just one more consideration especially as coincides with start of springtime? Hope you sort out, it's horrible, wish they could talk!! Let us know what you find in end...good luck.

 

[doodle]

Update!

Vet out again today. The hole from the wolf tooth coming out has. It healed and is still causing him pain. Poor chap. There is no infection which is good. So he has to have more time without a bit. If still not healing in a couple of weeks then more investigation. I knew something was wrong ��

 

[Corbie]

Pleased you found the cause. Yes you were fit to trust your instincts with him. Hope he's feeling all better very soon.😌