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poiuytrewq

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I'm just going to run this past you all to get some thoughts/opinions.
It's long, a bit complicated and I'm quite sure I will miss bits or confuse matters even more but if anyone has any light bulb moments or....... whatever!

I bought my horse in September. From a friend who i trust, I've known her ages, I've bought a horse from her before (that's why we are friends) We stayed in contact, she used to come visit him, sometimes ride. She was always welcome. I think this is very relevant because you don't miss sell a horse in that situ.

Straight away I noticed little things that i found odd about him, but things I was fairly confident I could work on. He was in work when i bought him, however had no top line and looked weak behind.- He blew and sweated too much, I'd trot a slight hill and he blew like a racehorse! He's stand a bit camped out looking. He weight shifts (I thought flies at first but as the flies disappeared it became obvious it wasn't)
He disliked hills, mainly down but never felt 100% up either, not major just odd.
umm, He was oddly sluggish to ride, he sometimes did weird things like looked a bit staggery or like he momentarily lost balance or something, just things you'd miss if you blinked but by this point i was analysing everything.

Then in December he had the Farrier and was horrific, wouldn't stand, was freaking out, couldn't balance or hold his legs up. eventually had to give up so he has one hind shoe that's been on for absolutely ages now.
I can pick his feet out but i wouldn't be able to hold them up for anything longer than that. He is happy for me to do that, no fuss but he knows its a quick thing.

He also got difficult about being clipped- the first time he was fine- that may or may not be something.

He'd get panicky in the field if my other horse tried to play and then looked almost a bit ataxic after being stressed about something.

He is randomly aggressive. This is usually coming in and out of the field. He hates tight turns and If i have to turn him that usually kicks it off, pain related? I genuinely can't call that one, because its not constant.
I can go out catch him and bring him in fine, he's like a bull to lead but fine, but if he's at the gate and i have to catch the pony from across the field when we turn back for the gate he will be rearing (not high) and striking out, lunging and snapping at us!
So I'm not sure if this is just freshness/impatience, wanting to get in and get fed, or get out to the field or is it is a pain response, my opinion of this varies almost daily. It's not a lot of fun whatever it is!
To lead he's flat out walk straight line, almost a bit robotic.
He will full on attack one of my ponies but is able to be turned out with the other. He was turned out alone in his previous home.
He appears to have lots of fans in lots of people so I'm assuming this aggression and behaviour is out of the ordinary for him. As soon as we get onto the yard he's a lamb, I'd trust him 100% not to bite in the stable or on the yard- It's honestly like two horses.


So, what i currently have is a horse who can't have his hinds shod or even trimmed, actually feels good to ride (he's walking 40 minutes a day and long reining under vet instruction) He leaves the yard quite fresh and bouncy, the blowing has stopped as has the sweating (he is clipped though so that's not really a sign) ears pricked the whole way, never girthy or miserable about being tacked up, Is caught and comes in mid morning to be ridden and I'm sure he knows that's whats happening! (weirdly never hard to bring in to ride) and feels better for it after, he feels strong and I like him after riding! We do have to avoid hills.
A horse that is at best difficult on the ground, but sometimes aggressive as well, I'd never feel able to ask anyone else to bring him in or turn out for me but I am very able to deal with it myself, its just annoying!
He sometimes looks ataxic, He will sometimes root his hind end and pivot to get from water to hay in the stable rather than move. He just looks odd if you stare too long.


Several other weird bits:

He got his front feet stuck in a feed bucket
If he walks up to a fence or gate he than struggles to turn away from it resulting in a few broken fences.
He tried to kick the pony he dislikes when i was leading him this week which resulted in him stood really wide all round and shaking for a few seconds (the exertion of the hind leg? Pain?)

He's had a full work up, including x rays from head to tail and neurological tests- He actually to my shock passed all neuro tests.
He's had some dodgy areas medicated but i don't see any difference. The vets are out again this week and I feel like i may be needing to make a decision- I had wanted to be feeling better on hills, to see less "weirdness" and, and this is really quite vital to have a farrier out to him.
We are going to try sedation I think but I'm really unsure about that. I know though if i cant hold his feet up for more than seconds he's not got better that way.

I know its really down to what the vets think this week but I really wanted a clear cut picture and easy decision.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

If any one made it that far without it blowing your brain- cookies and a cold G&T to you!
 
No help what so ever but I have a horse that has taken a good two years to get used to the hills here in Wales and he still feels odd compared to my others, he was originally trained and raced in Dubai so hadn't encountered one before! I hope you get some helpful comments
 
What’s he like to back up in hand? I knew a horse with very mild wobblers who was a bit like this. Odd boy. Just had to take him as he was on a daily basis but he was a total sweetie on yard and to ride or work. His only wobbler symptom was his slight inability to back up on the (I think left?) hind. But anyone trying to do anything with his right hind would quickly know not to do it again. But it was like he could not control this, he wasn’t kicking out he just didn’t have autonomy over the leg flinging about.
 
meleeka said:
Has he had a bute trial? I'd be inclined to give him a couple of bute the night before the farrier and another in the morning and see if it makes a difference. The easiest way to say if it's pain is to do a bute trial for a week or so and see if there's an improvement. If there is, you'll have your answer.
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Yes he has- made very little if any difference. We hit it quite hard too. I think 3 a day for a week and then 2 for two weeks.
Equi said:
What’s he like to back up in hand? I knew a horse with very mild wobblers who was a bit like this. Odd boy. Just had to take him as he was on a daily basis but he was a total sweetie on yard and to ride or work. His only wobbler symptom was his slight inability to back up on the (I think left?) hind. But anyone trying to do anything with his right hind would quickly know not to do it again. But it was like he could not control this, he wasn’t kicking out he just didn’t have autonomy over the leg flinging about.
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Terrible. He gets really mad at this and lunges snapping like shark.
Vet says not though. I was utterly convinced.
 
In would possibly be seeking a second opinion.
I’ve had a couple of neuro horses that weren’t typical.
Also, going back many moons and I’m not suggesting this is a diagnosis of your horse but we had a pony that had narcolepsy caused by ingesting sheep dip. So these things can come from random places.
 
I’d want a second opinion on wobblers. The lad I was talking about was not aggressive to backup just couldn’t do it without looking like his leg had been sawn off, but as said lifting the other one you’d think he was trying to kill you. This did not change when he was on very high doses of bute for a different issue.
 
Hello. It might not be relevant for you but there’s some similarities between what you describe your horse doing and one of mine so this may be helpful, ignore if not.

Mine was also getting randomly agressive when leading through gateways, had difficulties with hills, would shift his weight, was sluggish to ride and not wanting to lift his hind legs. It was really really subtle and gradual to the point I was questioning my sanity and he has been sound with no obvious soreness. He also struggled with crossing his hinds when turning a tight circle.

Vets been out a few times. He scoped positive for ulcers although I have him booked in for a full lameness work up too as I’ve got a niggle there’s something else going on as his back end just doesn’t look right at times to me but they’re often fleeting moments.

Hope you get to the bottom of whatever’s going on for yours.
 
Echo all of the above suggestions however, curious to know how big and what age. I have found some larger horses (17h plus) can struggle with an awareness of their body and groundwork and in hand over poles can really help but this does sound more serious than that.

Is your grazing ryegrass? Just wondering if you have thought about staggers? Have you tried bloods to test for any severe mineral imbalances?
But then to me the weight shifting would suggest an issue with the feet - and this could fit with the reluctance to lift one hind leg as the other foot may be sore.

I would query all of the above with the vet and in the meantime do some groundwork - TRT for example (I have a mare that had zero body awareness and was very tense, this has been super effective for her, she would tremble a bit when I picked up the hind legs and snatch them away, I queried poss injury/neuro but it turned out to be fear) - yours does sound more serious but something you could give a whirl until you get some answers!
 
My horse has some peculiarities that indicate he is physically compromised. I am ok with it, I think about 95% of horses are. Is the farrier patient, understanding and willing to allow the horse time to adjust his stance?
 
blitznbobs said:
Pssm 1 ??
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This is what I thought. I have one with similarities to yours and we’ve started feeding him vitamin e and it’s made a huge difference to his demeanour and his stability. I discussed it all with my vet but I don’t want to do the test as it’s a muscle biopsy and so pretty invasive. I just treat him as though he has PSSM and he has improved a lot with this management
 
We took on a young ex racer, he had some time off and came back into work, gently and quietly. All was well Neil we upped exercise/fittening work a bit. To cut a long story short, he had wobblers along with other things but was never anything but kind and gentle even we he obviously couldn’t do something…..never lame but often not quite right. A big work up ended with him pts because there was so much going on but he never lost his incredible personality.
 
blitznbobs said:
Pssm 1 ??
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You can test easily for that, pssm type(s) 2 testing is the nightmare, likewise deciding on whatever course of support for whichever ‘type of type 2’ - because not all type 2 variants demand the same response - even if one accepts the diagnosis of whichever variant, which not all vets do.....
Some of the described symptoms here are very typical - but that’s one of the huge difficulties with successful diagnosis of pssm anyway - maybe something else with v similar presentation.....
One could treat / manage as though the horse does have pssm1, to assess whether relevant treatment is actually helping. This will do no harm, and is often suggested by vets who are reluctant to do biopsy, also in a difficult professional position re hair test option for type 2.
I think I’d re visit the wobblers syndrome, perhaps another vet from the practice?
Does anything ring bells with your friend, or only started since arriving with you? How did she manage farriery, for example?
 
myheartinahoofbeat said:
This is what I thought. I have one with similarities to yours and we’ve started feeding him vitamin e and it’s made a huge difference to his demeanour and his stability. I discussed it all with my vet but I don’t want to do the test as it’s a muscle biopsy and so pretty invasive. I just treat him as though he has PSSM and he has improved a lot with this management
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Testing:
Type 1 is easy - hank of mane or tail sent to the lab.
Type 2 is biopsy (which, like you, I wouldn’t entertain); or mane hair again sent to a European lab - because as it stands, UK veterinary governing body won’t entertain that.
Great that your horse is responding so well to management!
 
Exasperated said:
Testing:
Type 1 is easy - hank of mane or tail sent to the lab.
Type 2 is biopsy (which, like you, I wouldn’t entertain); or mane hair again sent to a European lab - because as it stands, UK veterinary governing body won’t entertain that.
Great that your horse is responding so well to management!
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Thank you.Yes he is. We are keeping him extra rugged up, no sugars( not that he had much before) and the Vit E. So far, so good
 
Oh gosh, So I'll try and answer all questions! please nudge if i miss because I know how irritating it is when people post for help but ignore the questions!!

Horse first- He is full up 16.2 approx aged 14 years.
He was we believe good to shoe but friend was at work and used to leave him in, that farrier didn't mention anything but has sadly since moved away as i was going to get him out to try. He stood perfectly here the first time with my own long term farrier, was difficult but ok the second and just not do-able last- Hence starting investigating.
I think its less of a this leg is the issue, more that that leg was the last one to be done and by that point he'd really lost the plot a bit. The farrier then couldn't get any leg- fore or hind.
We are going to sedate and try again but that's something the vet wanted to leave a bit to see if medicating his back helped and to let all that settle.

I've tried a decent dose of a good quality Vitamin E, I keep him warm, he always wears a quarter sheet ridden.

As above he's had a neuro work up. He's been x-rayed from his head to his tail, x-rays were clean, particularly his neck, no impingments.
His SI actually looks really good on x-rays.
His pelvis has been scanned internally and externally
his back has been scanned.
There are areas which looked a little bit odd, no touching processes or anything obvious but we injected two lumbar areas and the SI area as a precaution.

My grass is not Rye no, I expect bits have self seeded but in general we sewed a meadow mix designed for ponies.

Previous owner has said to some of my queries "ah that's normal" or hes always done that- The blowing for example, apparently he's always done that but that has now stopped.
The aggression, no, She said he was a bigger version of our old horse who in the stable he is. He did however, thinking back nip when I went to see him.
 
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