Thread for last rebel

[zigzagzig]

So what you do, at least sometimes, is more than merely "come across a herd of deer, they notice us and run away". You actively set your dogs on the deer with a view to scaring them and you do this in Exmoor not because they're damaging your property, because you own no land there, but for fun. Is that correct?

 

[Hebegebe]

I think terming it as 'actively setting my dogs on deer' is a little strong.

Basically it consists of this:

I walk on foot across Exmoor with my dogs when we come across a herd of deer they run away, we then go in the direction that they ran away in in an attempt to follow them so we can see them again. If we are lucky we may do so after a few miles in which instance they normally move away again.

Sometimes we go through woodland and deer are flushed out of it and sometimes from grass and scrub.

If I am on exmoor and a deer is flushed out in front of me and runs off I find it an enjoyable experience. Not because the deer is scared but because I like seeing them.

All in all it is probably in all our interests that they are scared though.

Does that make everything clear to you?

Give it a go, it's not cruel and it's fun too

 

[Hebegebe]

The dpgs love it too. Deer excite them

 

[zigzagzig]

"The dpgs love it too. Deer excite them "

They seem to excite you too.

So you're saying you're not setting your dogs on the deer. You walk through woods where deer might be resting or whatever and the deer see or hear and dogs and run away and this gives you pleasure.

Yes, I think I've got it. Nothing to do with hunting after all.

 

[Hebegebe]

That's it!

Flushing out deer with dogs.

I've always thought it highly stupid that the law defines flushing out to protect crops as exempt hunting.

 

[Hebegebe]

"The dpgs love it too. Deer excite them "

They seem to excite you too.

So you're saying you're not setting your dogs on the deer. You walk through woods where deer might be resting or whatever and the deer see or hear and dogs and run away and this gives you pleasure.

Yes, I think I've got it. Nothing to do with hunting after all.

Basically that's what goes on at exmoor and then I pursue the deer with the dogs.



see not cruel at all.

 

[Bunce]

What we see here is the hunter's motives laid bare. It is nothing to do with 'pest control' but sheer blood lust and cruelty.

 

[zigzagzig]

Here's a question for you (you've asked me enough, it's my turn): forgetting for a moment about laws, do you consider what you do with your dogs on Exmoor to be "hunting"?

 

[Hebegebe]

Interesting question. I didn't think that flushing out and chasing away deer from my woodland with dogs was hunting before I read in the law that flushing out is exempt hunting and Defra toild me that chasing away is hunting because it is dispersal.

Then again Defra insisted that for the purposes of the Act the word 'hunting' is to be understood in the ordinary English sense of the word and the courts have ruled that it isn't. So the whole thing seems very unclear.

All we know is that it includes pursuing animals with dogs and forms of exempt hunting are flushing out and stalking wild mammals with dogs.

There is nothing in the law about intent to kill or catch so who knows. However we do know that when flushing out they must have 10 + guns to kill all the deer.

So I guess forgetting about laws I would say no but under the law I would say probably according to what Defra have told me yes.

 

[zigzagzig]

"So I guess forgetting about laws I would say no but under the law I would say probably according to what Defra have told me yes."

Why do you keep mentioning Defra? You've already said in this thread that they're irrelevant.

But thank you, you don't consider what you do to be hunting. Nor would a judge.

 

[Hebegebe]

Brilliant so its fine to deliberately flush out and chase deer as much as I like.

That was kind of the whole point in the first place. ZagZig.

And I am glad you think the Government is irrelevant to its own laws.

 

[Hebegebe]

The onlky other slight problem is that LACS, RSPCA, CA, Middle way group, the press, POWA, CPS, IFAW, HSA, The police and numerous other parties all think the Hunting Act makes it illegal to chase deer with dogs.

But still if an anonymous person on a hunt forum says its legal then let's go with that!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zigzagzig]

"Brilliant so its fine to deliberately flush out and chase deer as much as I like."

In practical terms it's your choice and your responsibility.

"And I am glad you think the Government is irrelevant to its own laws."

It's you, and not I, who said that Defra is "not relevant". I therefore don't know why you keep quoting them.

 

[Bunce]

I would need more information about the activities on Exmoor. They don't appear to involve flushing out.

However it is clear that the Act defines a number of activities as 'Exempt Hunting' amongst these is flushing out of cover./

To quote from the law:

"Stalking a wild mammal, or flushing it out of cover, is exempt hunting if the conditions in this paragraph are satisfied."

If the law states that flushing an animal out of cover is exempt hunting then it is clear that for the purposes of the Act it is hunting. It's also clear that he does not satisfy the conditions therefore his hunting is not exempt.

Hunting need NOT involve a desire to kill the animal.

Moreover he then chases the wild mammals. Chasing a wild mammal with dogs is illegal.

He is trying to create confusion and get a situation where animals can still be flushed out and chased with more than two dogs. Both these activities are illegal.

 

[Hebegebe]

"Brilliant so its fine to deliberately flush out and chase deer as much as I like."

In practical terms it's your choice and your responsibility.

"And I am glad you think the Government is irrelevant to its own laws."

It's you, and not I, who said that Defra is "not relevant". I therefore don't know why you keep quoting them.

Oh so you think their advice that I am breaking the law IS relevant?

Do you think it is or isn't legal to chase deer with dogs?

The reason I have quoted them is because you have misrepresented their views as being that it is legal to chase away and flush out deer with more than two dogs.

 

[zigzagzig]

I very much doubt that any judge would decide that what you do is "hunting with dogs" under the Hunting Act. Even you don't consider it to be hunting.

 

[Hebegebe]

Are we talking about what I do up on exmoor or flushing out and chasing deer in my woods?

They are two seperate things.

Flushing out and chasing deer with more than two dogs is definitely illegal hunting as defined in the hunting act.

The exmoor activities don't have any especial relevance to that.

 

[soggy]

I've just slogged thru 9 pages!

9 bloody pages of the most utter drivel and pointless b/s its been my displeasure to read for many a year.

Giles old fruit just do what you do and if you get a chance set your dogs on this twerp zig and do us all a massive favour.