Threatening to bite/kick; grouchiness on yard and in arena

Just a quick update. Had EDT and vet to sedate this morning.

She had a retained cap on a premolar. It's now been removed, so it's just a matter of time to see whether that fully accounts for her recent behaviour. Hoping it does!

Sarah
 
I haven't read all the posts but had a similar situation with my gelding. I knew his lovely parents and chose him for his supposed temperament and he turned out to be totally nasty, mean, would kick if I went behind him in the stable. Grooming was out of the question. He would stand up and come at you if you tried to lunge. In the field you kept out of his way. He was spooky and could never learn anything. Some days were a bit better and then we went back to Mr Nasty.
I didn't have him scoped although that was next on the list. I removed all molasses and that helped to a small extent. I gave him charcoal and that dealt with about 70% of the problem and to get the other 30% improvement I gave him limestone flour. (I am sure he probably needs mg but I am unable to change his diet at all now)
Anyway after adding those two items he is now perfect. Sweet, kind, loving and cuddly just as he should have been. A joy to play with and to lead out. And I can groom him all over which he loves.
When I come to worm him I have to stop the charcoal. Within a couple of days his miserable behaviour comes back.
If you don't get anywhere after the dentist treatment this would be a quick and cheap thing to try perhaps?
 
Interesting to read what an effect the charcoal and limestone had. That sounds like quite a dramatic change.

Ponies have been yarded since early October when the fields became too wet for turnout. The behaviour started sometime after the end of October.

Last winter she was on the same routine, and her behaviour remained exactly the same as when they are on their summer routine of yarding/turnout.

Sarah
 
She looks very unhappy as if she's in pain somewhere poor horse. Hope she gets sorted soon. I have a pony who snakes her head and pulls faces but she's just saying stay out of my space.
 
flintfootfilly said:
She had a retained cap on a premolar. It's now been removed, so it's just a matter of time to see whether that fully accounts for her recent behaviour. Hoping it does!
Click to expand...

Sorry - but it's HIGHLY unlikely! Retained caps are pretty common in youngsters and often not noticed unless the horse is quidding - or losing weight! I've had any number of them - and none showed any behavioural problems as a result!

I think a GOOD equine physio should be your next port of call! I have two backers in at present - both exhibited behavioural problems - both had extensive back problems - both now improving after a couple of physio treatments!
 
Thank you for your reply, Janet.

It is interesting, isn't it. None of the youngsters here has ever had a problem with retained caps. I've usually just found a tooth, or part of a tooth, on the yard or in the stable, and that's been all I've known of there being a tooth coming through.

However, just because I've not seen one of my former youngsters displaying this behaviour as a result of a retained cap doesn't mean that it can't happen.

In fact it was very interesting to hear my dentist so confident that he felt it would account for all her behaviour. I really value his opinion, not least because he sees so many horse/pony mouths every day in the course of his work.

However, I'm keeping an open mind, and we'll just see how things progress.

It's now 2 days since the cap was removed, and her behaviour has definitely improved already. Much sweeter on the yard. Moving more enthusiastically at liberty in the arena. Minimal head tossing at any time. And tucking into her haynet with greater enthusiasm. All those signs suggest to me that she IS feeling a lot more comfortable, and I can only hope that she continues to feel even better.

One of my previous vets used to say "common things are common" when he jumped to conclusions about what was wrong with one of my gang. And my mind used to just whisper "but rare things DO happen"! And strangely enough, a friend and I have been known to say we're fed up of having "rare and interesting" things wrong with our respective horses/ponies!

Sarah
 
Just a brief, and rather sad, update.

Although the cap removal resulted in Lilly's dramatic head tossing stopping totally within a few days, unfortunately her aggressive behaviour continued to escalate.

At its most extreme, she was backing towards me with serious intent, repeatedly double-barrelling directly at me rather than walk or trot at liberty in the school. It was all I could do to defend my space, and I knew that if I had faltered for a moment she would have seriously attacked me.

At that point, I asked my vet if he would just do a blood test to see if that gave us any pointers, and otherwise that I realised it was time for her to be pts.

The day before the vet was due, Lilly started behaving manicly, charging around ignoring her food whilst the rest of the herd ate calmly, and then spending an hour standing in the arena sniffing where some droppings had been whilst pawing the ground and curling her lip back, again while the others were calmly eating. She just kept repeating this behaviour, and I realised her behaviour had become too extreme and unpredictable, so the vet came and put her to sleep that day.

Very sad in any pony, but especially one only four years old. Looks like she had 2 problems going on after all - the retained cap, plus whatever caused her escalating aggression. Our best guess was some brain problem, maybe a tumour, but I've not had a postmortem done so we'll never know for sure.

Sarah
 
Very very sad for you and her..it seems like Janet was right about the behavioural side of it. It does sound like a tumour doesn't it, glad you made the right decision for her.
 
She had the most understanding owner any horse could wish to have, some owners would have tried to beat it out of her and her ending could have been much worse.
I applaude you for going with your instincts and against the origianl professional opinion, it takes courage, which you obviously have in bundles.
She is out of her obvious misery and in a better place to rest in peace.
You can feel sadness but also you must feel relieved that you did everything you possible could for her and there was nowhere else to go.
My heart goes out to you.
 
Oh OP - poor you. I wrote this before I read that your poor mare was pts, but you had no choice.

It is like reading about my young WB. He was exactly like this - he screamed at me that there was something wrong. Everyone around me said it was just his temperament and family said have him pts.
He bit me badly on more than one occasion and would kick and strike at you, rearing over your head. I learnt he had double barrelled a groom previously breaking her arm in several places. I was just so scared of him. His behaviour just got worse and worse yet we asked so very little of him. The last time my daughter rode him in January 2011 he bucked 4 times well over his ears - she bruised her nail beds holding on. But again he had been a monster to saddle and did not want to be mounted. She was only walking him and asked for a little inside bend. My conventional vet luckily was very sympathetic and immediately agreed that this horse was screaming something was wrong and getting worse because he just knew I was listening.

He was scoped for ulcers and only low grade ones found - so symptomatic not the cause. I tried a bute trial and he was a little better. Anyway the breakthrough was him going to Sue Dyson's clinic where he was finally diagnosed with chronic Sacro illiac dysfunction. I sent him on to a holistic vet for rehab and the temperament has changed completely.
He is still a very pushy character, but I can muck put around him without fear of being attacked and he rarely puts his ears back these days.
He was honestly that bad that he was sent to Sue's clinic on a hunch - I had had an iridology report done and a communication with him and both pointed to right hand upper hind injury - he even said he found ridden work too difficult and wanted to be left alone! He was too dangerous for my vet to nerve block :(

I spoke to a behaviourist and he said 99% of horses with bad behaviour/temperament have a problem caused by man or they are in pain. Horses do not waste energy being nasty naturally. So sad for you.
 
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I'm so sorry to read this flintfootfilly but I think you made the only decision you could in the circumstances. Brain or severe hormonal/ovary problem spring to my mind but at least she is at peace now and you are safe.

Run free and happy Lilly. x
 
How sad :( It sounds like you did the right and caring thing though. Thank goodness she had an owner that cared enough to try and help her, and to make the brave decision when there was no other safe option left x
 
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