Three horses died yesterday at Cheltenham?

Yes, found it . . . thanks. Hope this isn't another year like 2006 (11 that year in total - 6 on one day).

It's such a shame. I love watching NH racing, but I find it insupportable when horses die :(. Aside from the needless death of these lovely animals, it just gives the uneducated, non-horsey public yet another reason to view equestrian sports in general as pointless and cruel.

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An absolute nightmare, I see some people are blaming the ground being too firm, but they have been watering, and usually the ground dries out over the four days so would expect it to be in best condition on first day. Very sad.
 
Only one died falling at a fence. The other two were both in the cross country (which previously had a surprisingly good safety record) and both on the flat.

My only concern with yesterdays CC race was that they werent allowed to water that course unlike the main course(XC course is enormous so perhaps not permitted cos of the amount of water required to do it, and also perhaps the grass cover is more than on the main course).

This meant that with the lack of rain it was pretty fast going on that course, faster than on the main one. Which would help to explain why two horses broke down on the flat on that course/race.

Personally, I believe that if that course cannot be properly watered, then the race should only be held when the going is good to soft at least. I think the same about the Grand National, good to soft minimum. If the going is bottomless loads of horses fall but they generally get away with it as they are going slower and they slide on the mud when they hit the ground. On fast ground they are all going faster, at their limits and when they fall, curtains.

Im a great fan of jump racing and was very very upset to see the state of Scotsirish and to hear later about Garde Champetre, perhaps especially the latter as he had been so amazing around the XC for so many years, it certainly spoiled the day for me.
 
I think there should be enforced rulings on running races on ground that is too firm. Apparently the cross x course isn't watered and one of the horses wasn't on its preferred ground either. Precautions should be taken to protect horses. I know they can be accident prone and break legs in the field but if it's proven that harder faster ground in jumps racing equals more fatalities then something should be done!
 
Phoebe said:
I think there should be enforced rulings on running races on ground that is too firm. Apparently the cross x course isn't watered and one of the horses wasn't on its preferred ground either. Precautions should be taken to protect horses. I know they can be accident prone and break legs in the field but if it's proven that harder faster ground in jumps racing equals more fatalities then something should be done!
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See - here's where I think owners/trainers bear some responsibility . . . if the ground doesn't suit the horse then why run the risk - particularly on a course as challenging and high profile as Cheltenham? And, yes, I have answered my own question . . . the answer is, of course, £££££££££££££ . . . and, no, I'm not being cynical.

P
 
Well I know a few owners and they're from the...um...less considerate contingent. They'd run their horses anywhere for a day out on the lash. Then, when they're wrecked they just want rid. These are just the ones I know but if that's indicative of a sector of racing then its no wonder....
 
Phoebe said:
Well I know a few owners and they're from the...um...less considerate contingent. They'd run their horses anywhere for a day out on the lash. Then, when they're wrecked they just want rid. These are just the ones I know but if that's indicative of a sector of racing then its no wonder....
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No it's not indicative of racing in my experience. Most owners don't run their horses just to have a p*ss up. They invest too much money and time and months and years worth of training to run the risk of ruining it for a day out.
 
I know what you all meen regarding "owners out on the lash"

It is NOT all owners, but there are small groups who are like this - we have several in my area who have absolutly zero knowledge of horses needs and welfare. However in these cases the trainer should also man up and guide these "owners" into the needs of the horse not their pocket/alcohol consumption.

I am a great fan of racing - but it breaks my heart everytime I hear of a tragedy. rules on racing are sooo strict but tragic accidents do happen.

My heart goes out to all who loved the horses that passed yesterday xx
 
A1fie said:
No it's not indicative of racing in my experience. Most owners don't run their horses just to have a p*ss up. They invest too much money and time and months and years worth of training to run the risk of ruining it for a day out.
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I am genuinely glad to hear that, but the syndicate I know has been through 5 horses in 2 years and any members who feel any responsibility to the horses are quickly out voted and just back down. They openly say the current one has no chance of winning and they are just going for a day out.
Its opened my eyes, I can tell you that. I think that lower level racing can be really quite horrible.
 
x-di-x said:
I am a great fan of racing - but it breaks my heart everytime I hear of a tragedy. rules on racing are sooo strict but tragic accidents do happen.
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Lets not call this a tragic accident. Its an accepted possibility in racing, not an accident. Calling it a tragic accident implies it is out of the norm which it certainly isn't.
 
I just read an article on the Yahoo news page about it, and it was put down to the ground being good-firm on the XC course and not being watered. Cheltenham were quoted as saying "unfortunately it happens".
 
Honey08 said:
I just read an article on the Yahoo news page about it, and it was put down to the ground being good-firm on the XC course and not being watered. Cheltenham were quoted as saying "unfortunately it happens".[/QUOTE]

. . . and therein lies the nub of the issue non-horsey/non-racing supporters have with the sport. This is a fact. Race horses at speed over fences on less than ideal ground and the risk that those horses will injure themselves is increased. If you support/follow racing, you must/should do so in full knowledge that there will be (for want of a better word) attrition.

As I said in my original post, I love watching NH racing . . . I see two athletes working as one and think it must feel like flying. The power and grace is incredible to see . . . but there's always a risk that jockey and/or horse (or both) will be injured . . . every single time they go out . . . either on the racetrack or on the gallops. Supporting/watching/being involved win racing involves taking that risk into account . . . if you're prepared to be sanquine about the "attrition" and see it as the price paid for having the privilege (and, let's face it, enjoyment) of watching all that power and grace . . . well then, so be it.

And, for the record, I'm still not sure which side of the fence I'm on (the fence posts are certainly digging into my behind).

P
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I also know a syndicate who are in it for the kudos of owning racehorses,the gambling/money factor and as an excuse to go on the lash / big day out when one of the horses are running. Of the 5 blokes, only one has a vague interest in the horses themselves. When their first horse revealed itself to never be going to be good enough to win,they told trainer to get rid-didn't care to who,where,when,nothing. Never gave a moments thought afterwards to where it was,how it was doing,was it even alive-couldn't care less.
 
so 9 horses died in 5 years, how many raced and survived in 5 years? What's the actual percentage of horse deaths in racing? Is it more than in other sports - eventing, show jumping etc? Or does it just seem more because there's a greater number of horses racing? The way I see it, the horse is doing what it's been bred and trained to do, and although not nice when one dies IMO it's certainly the lesser evil than the horses that finish racing, got to the sales and end up with an uncertain future
 
I'm trying to get into NH racing and open my mind to it cos I have a friend who absolutely loves it and has taught me a lot, but I find it hard when I see things like that. It is taken as just part of the sport by too many, that's my main issue with it. Not everyone I know, but too many
 
Phoebe said:
I am genuinely glad to hear that, but the syndicate I know has been through 5 horses in 2 years and any members who feel any responsibility to the horses are quickly out voted and just back down. They openly say the current one has no chance of winning and they are just going for a day out.
Its opened my eyes, I can tell you that. I think that lower level racing can be really quite horrible.
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I think owners and trainers will run a horse who doesn't have a chance of winning but it is more likely to give the horse the experience of a race or for training purposes. I've no doubt that not all owners care about each horse, they do it usually because they like racing and can maybe win some money. Saying that, I think there would be few owners who would like to see their horse hopelessly outclassed and finishing last, not much fun in that.

It's the job of the trainer and the lads and lasses to look after the horse and care for it, the owners just pay the bills!
 
Indiangel said:
I'm trying to get into NH racing and open my mind to it cos I have a friend who absolutely loves it and has taught me a lot, but I find it hard when I see things like that. It is taken as just part of the sport by too many, that's my main issue with it. Not everyone I know, but too many
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Horses die every day in many different ways. Racing is high profile but also utterly transparent so deaths don't go unnoticed. There will be tears shed for every horse that dies in racing. Sadly, that is not the same for every horse.
 
ridefast said:
so 9 horses died in 5 years, how many raced and survived in 5 years? What's the actual percentage of horse deaths in racing?
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Lets just be clear, thats 9 at one racecourse and at a particular meet, not across all race days at that course and certainly not the whole of UK.
Wonder how many horses die each year across all meets and tracks.

ridefast said:
Is it more than in other sports - eventing, show jumping etc? Or does it just seem more because there's a greater number of horses racing?
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Yes its far greater that eventing or showjumping and I would hazard a guess that almost as many runs eventing as racing. How many horses are run at an average race meet compared to the 250-300 at each day of an event?

ridefast said:
The way I see it, the horse is doing what it's been bred and trained to do, and although not nice when one dies IMO it's certainly the lesser evil than the horses that finish racing, got to the sales and end up with an uncertain future
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Neither would happen if racing didn't exist but then money talks. If anywhere near the same level of attrition was encountered in eventing or showjumping there would be a huge outcry but then money talks and that is what racing is ultimately about.
 
Phoebe said:
Well I know a few owners and they're from the...um...less considerate contingent. They'd run their horses anywhere for a day out on the lash. Then, when they're wrecked they just want rid. These are just the ones I know but if that's indicative of a sector of racing then its no wonder....
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I don't think that is typical of owners, particularly NH where they are "in it for the long run"
 
Venevidivici said:
When their first horse revealed itself to never be going to be good enough to win,they told trainer to get rid-didn't care to who,where,when,nothing. Never gave a moments thought afterwards to where it was,how it was doing,was it even alive-couldn't care less.
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I have no bones with Racing and really enjoy NH, but ^^this^^ needs to be dealt with. There are a lot of owners and trainers that are pro-active in terms of what happens to the horses after they finish racing. The rehoming/rehabiliation centres are there to pick-up what pieces they can and receive some funding through the RoR. But still they are only able to deal with a small fraction of the % of horses that finish their racing career each year.

But for those irresponsible owners that don't have anything in place for horses once they have finished racing do you think that there needs to be a leavy charged by the industry that then goes straight to the rehoming/rehabilitaion centres? This might then make irresponsible owners think twice about getting rid/running in unsuitable conditions/welfare issues etc
 
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PaddyMonty said:
Lets not call this a tragic accident. Its an accepted possibility in racing, not an accident. Calling it a tragic accident implies it is out of the norm which it certainly isn't.
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It is an accident in that it was not done deliberately, I hate people who try to "make a point" out of a tragedy.
I fell over last year, and have been unable to work since, it was an accepted possibility, as I could have stayed in bed that day.
 
Indiangel said:
I'm trying to get into NH racing and open my mind to it cos I have a friend who absolutely loves it and has taught me a lot, but I find it hard when I see things like that. It is taken as just part of the sport by too many, that's my main issue with it. Not everyone I know, but too many
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I worked in NH racing for fifteen years, and I was lucky in that all my horses came home, none were killed, I don't know if I could have coped, as I am such a "weep", but I know the horses loved their life in racing, I don't know the stats, but to be honest a lot of horses don't make it to the racecourse, they are not strong enough or fit enough.
Don't let this put you off, the trainers absorb most of the pain.
 
ridefast said:
so 9 horses died in 5 years, how many raced and survived in 5 years? What's the actual percentage of horse deaths in racing? Is it more than in other sports - eventing, show jumping etc? Or does it just seem more because there's a greater number of horses racing?
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Just been doing some digging and have a few figures for you.

There are an average of 700 days racing a year in the uk
There are an averge 400 days eventing per year in the uk
Assuming 8 races per meet and an average 10 horses per race this equates to
56,000 race horse runs per year

Assuming a low figure of 200 horses per day eventing equates to
80,000 event horse runs per year.

Deaths in racing on track are around 150 per year (conservative)
Eventing deaths on course is average 2
So thats
1 death per 40,000 runs for eventing
1 death per 373 runs for racing.

Now even if my figures are 20% (racing death figures are hard to come by)out it seriously busts the horses deaths occur in all horse sports argument.

Why do you think wetherbys do not publish the facts and figures they have on horse fatalities and breakdowns by course and by trainer and by going. Also the number who break down before ever racing or die in training.
 
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