Three ring gags for schooling - what are your opinions?

arwenplusone

arwenplusone

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My mare is lovely but bl**dy difficult to ride sometimes. If I am honest she is really a pro's horse and a man's one at that.

I have been struggling with her lately bolting at the slightest noise in the school (as a form of evasion) and setting off at bronc, which is quite frankly dangerous. I am a perfectly competent rider, I just lack the strength (and perhaps aggression) she has been used to (and feels safe with)

Short of a sex change or turning into a russian shot put type lady there isn't much I can do but today my instructor put her in a gag (last ditch attempt to fool her into thinking I have muscle
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) and she went like a dream. She threw three massive spooks and I was able to hold her and ride her forwards.

So my plan now is to use this bit for schooling. My concern is that she will get used to it. I have only ever used a gag on horses that are strong xc, never for schooling. What does anyone think? I don't plan to use it for ever and I don't use it for brakes but reckon she needs it at the mo.

My main problem I that I hate seeing horses bitted and tacked up to the eyeballs. funny thing is, whilst i am a SJ-er, my instructor has competed BD for 30+ years and she has got me in a martingale and a grackle too!
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I do not particularly like gags as such, but the good part is that the reins can be on the top ring for schooling and then a lower ring for hacking without changing bits. Remember if you have the reins on the lowest setting of a 3 ring gag, you will need reins on the top ring too.

I had a NS Universal bit for my horse as he was strong out hacking and moved the reins down a hole. I had the reins on the snaffle ring for schooling.

Its worth a try.
 
hmm tricky one. You need her going in something you can use for dressage really. That said, it may help to use it very short term to get a bit of cooperation and manners, but if it were me that would be it, a very short term thing.

Alternatively and I know i might get jumped on for saying this but occasionally, very once in a while if she does bog off and bronc and would see no harm in giving her a very short and sharp wake up call with your outside rein and then send her IMMEDIATELY forwards, even if it means rushing and then reorganising yourself.

My intructor who judges dressage to international level told me this with one who was taking the pi** and being nicey nicey wasnt getting us anywhere. Needless to say I soon got the message through there was someone in the saddle! But i will repeat again - this is to be employed once in a blue moon to reiterate some manners and thats all, not for getting a horse 'into a shape'. Good luck!
 
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I do not particularly like gags as such, but the good part is that the reins can be on the top ring for schooling and then a lower ring for hacking without changing bits. Remember if you have the reins on the lowest setting of a 3 ring gag, you will need reins on the top ring too.


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I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. I am schooling on the bottom ring, one rein only. I need it for the schooling rather than hacking. The top ring is just like a normal snaffle so would be no difference for me schooling.
 
Ultimately you have to be in control, if you aren't then you're teaching her not to listen to you. So for now I'd use this combination but with the long term aim of feducing it to something you're happier with.

You may find you have to develop a stronger willed attitude with this mare as with horses like this rider attitude is often far more effective than any bitting or other tack. On really bad days I expect my horse to ask for my permission for anything other than breathing! I don't like riding this way but very occassionally I have to - or give up riding him & that isn't an option.
 
Georgiegirl - *waves*
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Thanks for the reply I have tried the method you suggested already though - hence why we are now trying this route.
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For dressage I will need to get to the point where I can put her in a hanging cheek (though this may take a while) but we mostly SJ anyway so it would be rare that I would need it.
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Hope Twig is doing ok.
 
A friend of mine used to ride her loan horse in a dutch gag for schooling and hacking (bottom ring for hacking, next one up for schooling), horse never seemed uncomfortable and she always went well in it, I don't see an issue with it as long as the horse is happy.
 
ahhh i see. well if you mostly sj then if you get her going sweetly in the three ring i see no problem really - you may find as she comes on and develops you will rely less and less and the leverage the three ring gives you. I actually like 3 rings very much and have used them for all of mine xc - far better to give one positive aid rather that hauling the poor horse round like you see so many people doing
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Twig is doing very well thanks! we got to the bottom of her rearing - she had put her pelvis out so much it made her lame behind in the end - unfortunately we went down every other route first which ended up costing a small fortune but hey ho. She went to her first (third in her life) dressage since september and got a very respectable 64.5% and has also started jumping again. Hoping to meet up with margot tiffany soon for her first xc school at helen bells soon and ultimate aim for this season is intro at bishop but we will wait and see!

dont be put off by people saying 3-rings are 'harsh'. they are only as harsh as the person on the end of the reins! have you been out and about with her recently?
 
Can you use two reins?

School from the snaffle rein, then when she is a moo use the bottom rein?

Then she wont get used to the bottom rein, it will be more of a 'back up'?
 
I schooled for 9 months in a gag with one rein on the bottom hole as my horse had no brakes or steering and I was worried about her getting used to it too.

Happy to say she has chilled out a lot now and the other day I switched to a french link snaffle and flash and she was perfect. Although I forgot to change the bit back to hack out today and galloped flat out for about 2 miles down the bridleway!
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I had to school and hack for a short period in a dutch gag, but I'm now back in a loose ring snaffle. As you say, you are an experienced rider and if she's not listening you need to find something that she listen to! If the gag works, stick with it...doesn't mean you'll be in it forever!
 
thanks guys - Sarah + Trendy (hope you don't mind the name shortening!) is good to hear that it doesn't have to be permanent!
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Redmerl - I could use two reins and maybe I will a little later on but I need the conistency & for her to know I am the boss. all of the time.
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Georgiegirl - glad to hear Twig is back on track. We've been out to a few local things but I've been doing a lot of showing with the yearling - hope to get V back out soon though
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Two reins is definalty underated, for these and other similar bits. People are often put off by the two reins but you don't have to have a contact on the curb, like you said, it's just there to remind our nags to have some manners! lol
 
I love riding in 2 reins in bits that have that option (pelhams and running gags too). You have double the number of options, and when you really need control it's there at the flick of a finger.
 
Personally, I see nothing wrong with schooling in a gag, however I think that schooling with one rein on the bottom hole is not fair on the horse.

With the gag on the bottom ring, there is an enormous amount of pressure on the poll, practically forcing the horses to drop their head as it is so uncomfortable.. The poll is one of the most sensitive areas of the horse, and i find it personally unfair to be putting so much pressure on a sensitive area for schooling, where the horse is supposed to be relaxing into the bridle and onto the bit, and this surely is impossible with such pressure on their poll? With the horse dropping behind the contact because of the pressure it means that they won't be moving through from behind, therefore not building the correct muscles anyway.

I have schooled in a gag myself, but only on the second ring, and I know how it can feel that your horse is going well in it, dropping easily onto the bit, but really the horse is dropping it's head to try and avoid the poll pressure.

Dutch gags should always be used with two reins really if the second or bottom ring are used, and I find it a shame that the majority of people use them incorrectly, not knowing about the actual effects of the bit.

Sorry if this seems like i'm totally flying off on one - I guess it's a subject I have very strong opinions about..

I used a french link pelham on my mare for a while - the curb being a good reminder to her, and the top rein has an action as similar to the drop cheek snaffle as possible, and I only used the second rein as a reminder when she was being strong. This enabled me to change to the drop cheek snaffle easily without much fuss, and as a result I have a much less strong mare.
 
Well, I see your point in a way, but as many people have said if you've got light hands, whats the problem?
There's no laws no rules, ( unless you're competing)
and if you horse is not in pain fair enough.
I can ride my fast tb x in a snaffle because his power is from behind and has been schooled to listen to seat and voice, but my cob who has not had much schooling powers from his neck and chest, the gag helps me lift his head up off the floor a bit!
Everyone has strong opinions on something, mine is Laminitis....!!
 
I use a gag for my daughter for schooling a strong mare. I make sure the mouth piece is the same as the one she uses in dressage tests to when we swap horsey doesn't know the difference. Funny, horsey tries nothing in the gag and we end up wondering why we need it. It serves it's purpose because we know how it can be without it.

Well known RDA saying, 'Safety, Fun and Enjoyment.
 
I know I've suggested it before alot in other posts but Kimberwicks are the most underated bit in the world. Totally adjustible with a minuite detail expecialy if its a straight bar similar to a driving bit that has one side of the mouthpiece smooth and the other textured so it is reversible. (not sharp just a little serated which is just enough to wake some horses up, a small change that makes a surprising amount of difference) If your horse isn't fond of the curb i've seen it work sucessifully with it either very loose or not on at all
 
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I know I've suggested it before alot in other posts but Kimberwicks are the most underated bit in the world. Totally adjustible with a minuite detail expecialy if its a straight bar similar to a driving bit that has one side of the mouthpiece smooth and the other textured so it is reversible. (not sharp just a little serated which is just enough to wake some horses up, a small change that makes a surprising amount of difference) If your horse isn't fond of the curb i've seen it work sucessifully with it either very loose or not on at all

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Second vote here for a kimblewick. Personally don't get on with gags but if it works for you and you don't need a snaffle for dressage, I would go with it for now at least. I'd always rather have something stronger and be in control, than hauling away in a "mild" bit.
 
I don't really see the problem with you using the gag TBH. You need to be safely in control and if the gag is the solution then so be it. My daughters SJ pony used to p*ss off with her at every opportunity when we first got her and the gag was the only thing that would stop her. 2 yrs on she is jumped / hacked in the gag but schooled on the flat in a hanging cheek snaffle but it took a while to get her into the snaffle.
 
I used to use one for XC and hunting my TB who normally was a squeeze of the hand stop in a snaffle. I used it on second ring which gave me total control still with a squeeze.

I have just got Chancer back today from three weeks schooling and have been advised when I try my first fast hack out to consider using one as he has the potential to be very strong, though to date has not tanked off.

I have very light hands so will use the gag, but as he is only 4 will use two reins so I don't have to use it unless I absolutely need to - want him to learn from the start never to tank off.

Personally I would do as you are doing - ride with something she respects until she learns what is required and then try the hanging cheek. I would personally try two reins for schooling, though I normally hunt/XC on the one rein but only on the middle ring.
 
Really dislike 3 ring gags, you will find for "schooling" she will look pretty but not really be working correctly as she will juts be avoiding the action of the bit. If you must use one please use one with 2 reins, so you can school on a snaffle and get her working into the bridle, and then can have the "safety rein" when she bolts off.
 
Thankies all for the opinions - all helps.

I had considered a kimblewick but think will use the gag for now as I can progressively get back to the snafle ring which is my ulitmate goal. I do however hate pelhams.

KatB - I know what you mean about backing off as this is what she did at first but tbh she actually rode up into the bridle after she had worked in & she was really long and low.

Think I will give it a go for a short time & see if it solves the problem. I trust my instructor's opinion but it's always good to see what anyone else thinks!
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