Three year old competing dressage?

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I don't know how to react to this. A friend of mine has a "gypsy vanner" coloured filly, lightweight cob, three years old.

I regret now that I suggested last year that she would sell more easily if she got her neighbour's kid to sit on her back for a photo to show how easy she was going to be to break at three or four. She went ahead and backed her completely and had her doing short but very hilly hacks at two and working in an arena at walk and trot with a bit of canter too.

This year the filly is being worked again after a winter break and is now entered for 2 dressage competitions this weekend, an Intro and a Prelim. She has also been out on a 2 hour, again hilly, hack.

What do the rest of you think about this?
 
I may be wrong but I think for riding club/ pony club a horse/ pony must be at least 4 years old before they are allowed to compete in ridden competitions, and in most rules I have seen for other competitions its the same i.e. county shows, affiliated/ unaffiliated dressage comps, show jumping a horse/ pony must be at least 4 years old to compete in a ridden class.
 
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Not my cuppa.

I'd rather leave til 4, but certainly not two, they're still babies. If I was to back that young it would also only be hacking, not schooling esp not dressage!

Pan
 
3 rising 4? Or turned 3 this year?

If the latter, I imagine it would be against the show rules so a complaint could be made to the secretary if they are unaware of the horse's age.
 
Ugh - personally, i wouldnt back before 3-4 depending on maturity. My mare is 5 rising 6 and has only really recently started "proper" more intense schooling. Between age's on 4 1/2 till now, all she really did was hack, or if we did school it was basic stuff.
 
Not my cup of tea either, and personally, if i was buying and a seller told me a horse had been doing that much so young i wouldn't even go and see it.
 
I think the rules are 4 too, and I suggested that to her yesterday but she's not interested, and I'm really not in a position to go telling tales to teacher about a really good friend :( Rocks and hard places come to mind.
 
sarahann1 said:
Not my cup of tea either, and personally, if i was buying and a seller told me a horse had been doing that much so young i wouldn't even go and see it.
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I have tried to gently tell her that as well, but it's not getting through and I'm too concerned to say it stronger because really it's none of my business :(
 
I know of someone who sounds of a similar ilk to your friend. Bringing on a youngster with draw reins, lots of comps, big jumps etc etc now wondering why said horse has a splint and is bronking round courses :(

Many people including very well respected instructors have said something, all are wrong apparently. I guess after that ramble, my point i there really is no telling some people :(
 
Personally I would wait until 3/4 before backing and not give them hard work, just very short occasional schooling sessions & mainly light hacking. No way I'd back a native at 2.

That being said, I don't think it will do a (reasonably mature) 3yo any harm if goes to a show or two to do a no pressure walk and trot test just to get used to the big world.
 
I'm with you on going out and about and an Intro walk and trot test CJ, for a well developed 3 year old. I would do that myself, as long as it was with no intention but to show the horse boards, letters, judges boxes and that it's fun to travel. It's the schooling that I know this filly is getting at home to prepare her for a Prelim that I worry about, almost more than the test itself. She's been out ridden showing as well, so this isn't a one-off, it's daily routine.

I must be fair, she is well grown, 14.2 ish with a good leg at each corner, but she is barely 3 years old. Most people would only just have sat on her.

The worst of it is that now that she has done so much, people who are completely inexperienced are coming to look at her to possibly buy her. Again, I must be fair and say that my friend is turning away total novices and has refused one offer from the parents of a child. I suspect she may now be creating a self-fuelling circle, wher experienced people will be put off by how much work she has already done, so only numpties will be interested in buying her :(
 
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cptrayes said:
I think the rules are 4 too, and I suggested that to her yesterday but she's not interested, and I'm really not in a position to go telling tales to teacher about a really good friend :( Rocks and hard places come to mind.
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But it's ok to gossip about it on the internet:eek:
 
It's a sad situation. Just because a horse looks 'mature' at 2 or 3 yrs old it still has a baby brain and is still developing and bones are growing. I cannot believe people's ignorance in thinking it is acceptable to effectively 'work' such a young horse. The physical impact is bad enough, but add to that the mental impact!

My WB is 4 yrs old in my avatar and doesn't he look mature? Well he was screwed up by being broken at 3 yrs old and expected to show all the dresage moves that his breeding should make easy work. WBs do no actually mature physically until 7/8 yrs old.
He is now 7 years old and has had 18 months unridden. His physical problems have hopefully been sorted as far as they can and mentally he is in a far better place than ever before. Would I rush to ride him now - no he is being long reined twice a week and this will continue until I think he is ready to be ridden again.

I have a 2 yr old Dales and yes he looks chunky and mature. I have just introduced him to a bit. He has done his first inhand show. I intend to do at least 2 more this season and I may long rein him a few times before the winter. But he is a baby - he needs to be playing and learning from field mates not working. I am all for teaching youngsters some manners, but not working or riding them.
 
cptrayes said:
I am not saying anything here that I have not already said to her face. I think it's rather different from ringing up a venue and telling them that my friend is competing illegally, don't you Dee?
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I would do this, but there again i find people like this annoying. There is nothing wrong with them randomly asking for proof of age at a show.
 
cptrayes said:
I am not saying anything here that I have not already said to her face. I think it's rather different from ringing up a venue and telling them that my friend is competing illegally, don't you Dee?
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Actually I think it would be the responsible thing to do. If you're happy letting everyone here know then it's obviously of concern to you. I'd ring up the venue, nothing to say it will come back on you, they could simply be doing a random check on a horse that looks rather young.

Pan
 
cptrayes said:
I am not saying anything here that I have not already said to her face. I think it's rather different from ringing up a venue and telling them that my friend is competing illegally, don't you Dee?
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I agree - the best you can do is tell her you don't condone what she is doing.

I once rang the RSPCA regarding a friend's horse, because she was simply neglecting it and it was in a terrible state. The YO would not intervene and said friend would not listen to me.

There is no law to stop people overworking an immature horse sadly.
 
sarahann1 said:
I know of someone who sounds of a similar ilk to your friend. Bringing on a youngster with draw reins, lots of comps, big jumps etc etc now wondering why said horse has a splint and is bronking round courses :(

Many people including very well respected instructors have said something, all are wrong apparently. I guess after that ramble, my point i there really is no telling some people :(
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Erg, why are draw reins the latest fad. Used far more than they ought to be. People have stopped putting work in and only look for a quick fix now :(

When I was chatting about backing my youngster at the last yard I was pushed towards backing at a young 3 (had only been handled a couple of weeks, not even a headcollar before then), backing with martingale, flash and strong bit to teach manners and make sure it didn't win, before then trying to take all this tack off.

I disagreed and my just turned 4yo is still in a field getting to be a youngster who's trained properly and not rushed and certainly not backed with gadgets!

I see nothing wrong with chucking rugs/numnahs/lifting feet of babies and generally 'bomb-proofing', but nothing weight bearing or stressful on joints at such a young age

Pan
 
I took my mare out to 3 shows as a 3 yr old once she was backed and being ridden, once was her first show for a look round for an hour and the second and third were to an unaff show down the road, the people knew her age and we did a walk and trot test and came home so she got used to shows, going in an arena etc and warming up with other horses, she was 16.2 mature and was ridden for about 1/2hr at each show. I dont think this was excessive and she is now much bigger and stronger than she was at 3.
 
PandorasJar said:
Actually I think it would be the responsible thing to do. If you're happy letting everyone here know then it's obviously of concern to you. I'd ring up the venue, nothing to say it will come back on you, they could simply be doing a random check on a horse that looks rather young.

Pan
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But I'm not telling you who she is, where she is, or anything else. It's a world of difference asking for other people's opinions on here about an anonymous horse and owner, and ringing a venue to tell them that a specific horse is under age. And I said it to her yesterday that I thought there was an age limit, and the horse competes on Saturday. Exactly how long do you expect it to take her to realise that it must have been me :rolleyes: ?

That is, however, not the reason I will not do it. It is because it is not illegal to do what she is doing - against BD rules maybe, but it's not a BD competition. And really, this is none of my business. I've done my best, within the constrictions of a friendship, to suggest that she is too young to be doing the amount of work that she is doing. I don't think there is anything else I can do.

I posted here to see what other people thought, so I didn't feel either guilty or alone in thinking this wasn't right.
 
cptrayes said:
But I'm not telling you who she is, where she is, or anything else. It's a world of difference asking for other people's opinions on here about an anonymous horse and owner, and ringing a venue to tell them that a specific horse is under age. And I said it to her yesterday that I thought there was an age limit, and the horse competes on Saturday. Exactly how long do you expect it to take her to realise that it must have been me :rolleyes: ?

That is, however, not the reason I will not do it. It is because it is not illegal to do what she is doing - against BD rules maybe, but it's not a BD competition. And really, this is none of my business. I've done my best, within the constrictions of a friendship, to suggest that she is too young to be doing the amount of work that she is doing. I don't think there is anything else I can do.

I posted here to see what other people thought, so I didn't feel either guilty or alone in thinking this wasn't right.
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It's a small world. The number of times someone has gossiped away on here and had it bite them on the arse.

In your post you stated that it was against the rules. If it's against the rules in the class she's entering then yes I'd phone. If not then I wouldn't.
 
I think the only ethical course of action is to inform the organisers - friend or no friend, this is against the rules, and, imho, wrong.

I was once having a lesson (the only lesson I've had in a decade :( ) where the final straw in a long series of technical disagreements with the instructor's methods was her throwaway comment that the person I was sharing the jumping lesson was riding a just turned 3 year old, who needed to practise something for a dressage test that weekend. I left at that point, though I don't think the instructor, nor the other owner, quite understood my reasoning sadly.
 
If she's breaking the rules of the classes she's entering and you have concerns for the welfare of the horse being worked that young then I don't understand why you wouldn't ring the venue about it.

If I disagreed that much with something a friend of mine was doing I don't think I'd put the friendship first to be honest.
 
Well, there's competing and then there's competing isn't there? I've taken many a recently broken 3 year old to a competition to have a wander around look-see and a little wobble between the boards (and I've even won occasionally, by accident), but that is not the same as heavy duty schooling and drilling for real. If your friend is sensible (doesn't sound so from your description) then I'd keep trap shut, if you mention something to the show organiser I think you'll still come across as a bit of a busy body. BD rules are quite clear: nothing younger than 4.
 
Why don't you stop tip toeing around, phone the venue annonomously, and say 'I know of someone who will be competing at the weekend- the horse isn't 4.'

Suggest to them that they issue an email reminding everyone to bring their passports (should be anyway if they're travelling horses) and that there may be spot checks to check that vaccs are all up to date etc. If said warning doesn't stop friend going, phone orgainisers again and tell them exactly who she is and make sure they go have a look at horses passport.
 
As far as I understand from BD especially they run the age from 1st Jan and nothing under 4yrs can compete... so if the horse has turned 3 this year no it shouldn't be competing but if it turns 4 this year then it can compete, even though it might not turn 4 till say September. Also most riding club and unnaf dressage shows are still run under BD rules.
 
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