Throwing me off

[Elopi]

Hi looking for some advice

my loan horse has recently started yanking the reins from my hands, putting his head right down and bucking me off. At first it was only when transitioning into canter, but now it’s also when I’m asking him to go forward in Trot. My instructor thinks that he is just trying it on with me but it’s really knocked my confidence especially today after I came off twice in my lesson and hurt my neck.
I was told to practice sitting back and holding the rains shorter in my hands, not letting him drop his head or try to yank them, and it definitely helps but I’m nervous to ask him to keep going forward in case he tries it again. In all honesty, I am scared to ride him without my instructor there now, and I will just lunge him until my next lesson. As he is a part loan I can’t really do much regarding tack/checking his back and teeth. I have mentioned it to the owners and they also think that he is just trying it on with me, however they have made me aware that he has also tried this with the girl who owns him. His teeth were checked not long ago and apparently his saddle has been especially made for him.

His bit was changed recently from a standard snaffle to a hanging cheek snaffle, to stop his head coming up. I have found that he is more forward with this bit and he is working more in an outline but I have no idea what could be the cause of his behaviour.
Any advice is appreciated, I’m going to take a break from riding and just lunge until my next lesson after the bank holiday as my confidence has been knocked massively and my body is sore.

thank you for reading

 

[Fransurrey]

If they are not willing to even go through the usual checks, then end the loan. Made to measure saddles don't magically change with the horse's shape. They can be as badly fitted as off the peg. I'm also no bitting expert, but how do they envisage a hanging cheek stopping the head coming up? Happy for someone to educate me on that!

 

[scruffyponies]

OP, the answer to a horse which yanks and pulls the reins is not to hold them shorter and sit back, it is to put your leg on to make him raise his head. Same for a bucker. A horse pushing forwars from it's back feet cannot buck at the same time.

Horse may be trying it on, or (more likely IME) he doesn't like your hands. Relax, slip the reins if he pulls them, and get them back afterwards. Forward from the leg, and give him the gentler contact he's after. Rather lose contact for a moment when he does it, until he realises he doesn't need to, than annoy the bezeezus out of your horse and make his behaviour worse; especially if he's unseating you anyway.

 

[Carrottom]

If your instructor thinks he is trying it on, could you ask them to have a sit on and ride the transitions to show you what you should be doing.

 

[Goldenstar]

End the loan before you get damaged .

 

[PurBee]

I rode a riding school pony who always did this - just didnt buck folk off, but constantly put her right head down, pulling your arms forward and it was a real struggle to pull her back up. After the hours lesson my arm muscles were done-in!

I was very inexperienced about horses back then being just a kid learning to ride, but now, i would definitely investigate teeth, bit, back, saddle, neck.

Your loan horse has obviously only just started to do this, and its not long-term behaviour? So the horse is telling everyone there’s a problem that needs investigating...he’s evidently uncomfortable somewhere.

Horses dont have the type of minds to think “today im going to play-up just to annoy my rider” - they’re not vindictive ...that’s a human trait! Humans often project their minds/traits onto animals : anthropomorphise, and its unhelpful as the cause of behaviour problems can be missed for a long time, when the animal could be, and more likely experiencing pain somewhere. The only way they can tell us there’s pain is by behaving differently from the ‘sane, trained’ animal we’re used to.
It’s difficult for you as you’re not the owner - but i personally would impress on the owners to have him thoroughly checked-out by professionals, and do as you’re doing lunge work -if he’s ok with that?...ground work Etc. I wouldnt feel comfortable riding an animal displaying obvious signs of discomfort and would tell the owners the loan will cease if the problem isnt professionally investigated.

 

[Elopi]

OP, the answer to a horse which yanks and pulls the reins is not to hold them shorter and sit back, it is to put your leg on to make him raise his head. Same for a bucker. A horse pushing forwars from it's back feet cannot buck at the same time.

Horse may be trying it on, or (more likely IME) he doesn't like your hands. Relax, slip the reins if he pulls them, and get them back afterwards. Forward from the leg, and give him the gentler contact he's after. Rather lose contact for a moment when he does it, until he realises he doesn't need to, than annoy the bezeezus out of your horse and make his behaviour worse; especially if he's unseating you anyway.

This is what I meant sorry putting my leg on and making him raise his head. I worded it incorrectly but that is exactly what my instructor told me to do. I couldn’t remember exactly how my instructor worded it that’s my fault.

 

[Elopi]

If they are not willing to even go through the usual checks, then end the loan. Made to measure saddles don't magically change with the horse's shape. They can be as badly fitted as off the peg. I'm also no bitting expert, but how do they envisage a hanging cheek stopping the head coming up? Happy for someone to educate me on that!

The owners instructor advised her to change the bit to stop his head from coming up that’s what I was told. We both use different instructors.

 

[LegOn]

I think if no one is willing to check the horse over and you have already been hurt - I would be inclined to bring it up with the owner before you get seriously hurt and get them to take you seriously.

I also dont think horses 'take the piss' for no reason, but he could have learned if he pulls you forward, he gets some pressure release which means he feels more comfortable so therefore he keeps doing it until you are not there any longer and he isnt experiencing discomfort. I do agree there is positional things you can do to be more effective with these transitions to 'stop' him doing it... however proceed with caution, IF you stop him doing the thing which give him the release from pressure he feels he needs, the behaviour can escalate to a more dramatic resolution on the horses part. Not always, but unless you are 100% sure there is no pain issues.... be very wary.

 

[Elopi]

If your instructor thinks he is trying it on, could you ask them to have a sit on and ride the transitions to show you what you should be doing.

I love that idea, I will definitely ask her thank you.

 

[Elopi]

End the loan before you get damaged .

It would really upset me to do this as he is such a gentleman on the ground and we have bonded so much, I’m just hoping this is a silly habit that I can correct.

 

[Elopi]

I rode a riding school pony who always did this - just didnt buck folk off, but constantly put her right head down, pulling your arms forward and it was a real struggle to pull her back up. After the hours lesson my arm muscles were done-in!

I was very inexperienced about horses back then being just a kid learning to ride, but now, i would definitely investigate teeth, bit, back, saddle, neck.

Your loan horse has obviously only just started to do this, and its not long-term behaviour? So the horse is telling everyone there’s a problem that needs investigating...he’s evidently uncomfortable somewhere.

Horses dont have the type of minds to think “today im going to play-up just to annoy my rider” - they’re not vindictive ...that’s a human trait! Humans often project their minds/traits onto animals : anthropomorphise, and its unhelpful as the cause of behaviour problems can be missed for a long time, when the animal could be, and more likely experiencing pain somewhere. The only way they can tell us there’s pain is by behaving differently from the ‘sane, trained’ animal we’re used to.
It’s difficult for you as you’re not the owner - but i personally would impress on the owners to have him thoroughly checked-out by professionals, and do as you’re doing lunge work -if he’s ok with that?...ground work Etc. I wouldnt feel comfortable riding an animal displaying obvious signs of discomfort and would tell the owners the loan will cease if the problem isnt professionally investigated.

Thank you so much I will definitely have a word with them.

 

[honetpot]

The hanging cheek snaffle is giving some poll pressure, so if he can not get his head up, the bucking is another way of avoiding the action of the bit. When you are nervous, not only your hands, but elbows and shoulders tighten and block the movement, even if you feel you are not pulling backwards.
I would give up the share, I have loaned/shared ponies, and I would never expect the loaner/sharer to sort the pony out, it is not suitable for you. I would pay for some good lessons on the lunge to get your confidence back. Lunging a pony will also get it fitter, the last thing you want is a fit naughty pony, the grass has a lot of sugar in it ATM. An odd whopee buck from a pony is normal, but one that doing it just to dislodge you is not.

 

[Elopi]

The hanging cheek snaffle is giving some poll pressure, so if he can not get his head up, the bucking is another way of avoiding the action of the bit. When you are nervous, not only your hands, but elbows and shoulders tighten and block the movement, even if you feel you are not pulling backwards.
I would give up the share, I have loaned/shared ponies, and I would never expect the loaner/sharer to sort the pony out, it is not suitable for you. I would pay for some good lessons on the lunge to get your confidence back. Lunging a pony will also get it fitter, the last thing you want is a fit naughty pony, the grass has a lot of sugar in it ATM. An odd whopee buck from a pony is normal, but one that doing it just to dislodge you is not.

He is limited on how much grass he can eat to to a history of laminitis. He was a star to ride when I first started loaning him a few months ago, this new issue has arisen recently.

 

[ponyparty]

I would walk away if I were you. In fact, I'd run. I've had too many experiences part loaning where a horse has been clearly in pain and owner not willing to investigate - I just won't do it any more, it's riding lessons or nothing until I can get my own again. I don't know if people are genuinely ignorant, or are in denial because they can't afford vet bills, or what; but there we go. If he was a star a few months ago, and now suddenly isn't, I'd hazard a guess he's not "trying it on", he's trying to tell you something hurts.

 

[Trouper]

I'm sorry but in my experience a horse doing that (unless he is just grabbing at grass) is telling you he has a sore back or what you are asking him to do is making him hurt somewhere. By all means let your instructor try and give you a second opinion but if the owners won't investigate then I would hand him back.

 

[honetpot]

He is limited on how much grass he can eat to to a history of laminitis. He was a star to ride when I first started loaning him a few months ago, this new issue has arisen recently.

Thats another red flag. Even on restricted grazing this time of year before something shows the classic signs they can often become grumpy and unwilling. By the time they are off their feet, it's a full blown attack.

 

[Elopi]

Thank you everyone for your comments, the owner is going to get a vet out check everything, she is also going to look at his tack. In the meantime I will just continue to lunge and do some ground work. You have all been very helpful.

 

[AmyMay]

Walk away.