Thrush,Cushings vitamins

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Madabouthorses

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Ok starting this thread new to this forum but I have so many questions. Last December after a dental my horse coughed up blood this was a week later. Not a little blood but a lot. After two ultrasounds and antibiotics and scoped he had lesions healing in his throat but was diagnosed with Cushings. ACTH levels were in the 300's. Put on Prascend got very lethargic and depressed always been a cribber didn't even do that it was very sad. In the February he had a bout of colic very severe this is a horse who never had colic. Fever of 105f put on IV fluids antibiotics found to have possible annaplasmosis and even though our winter was bad about two feet of snow on the ground till April it was from a tck the previous fall possibly. We got through that then in March he foundered. At that point I looked into herbs for him he's on Hilton Herbs and Heiro. I decided to take him off the prascend much happier horse didn't tell the vet though but his levels had come down to 30's this last test. So now the farrier put on heart bar shoes both feet the foot without laminitis became sore last week so the vet came out no laminitis in that foot the farrier came out and he has thrush in that foot very bad because under the plastic frog that was covering the hoof he had gotten dirt in there. I have been soaking in Epsom salts and betadine solution the thrush remedy wasn't working put poultice pad on and all wrapped up this horse is so sore the butte isn't even working vet coming back out on Monday any ideas
 
If the thrush is very severe a cleantrax soak is a good idea I think if the vet ok's it.
Getting minerals balanced to forage(grass and hays) is a good move if possible but good levels of copper and zinc in particular appear to be very helpful with thrush and hoof health. Pressure on the frog, if infected, can be very painful.
Low sugar hays and diet generally will also help.
Have a look at the diet and frog articles here. http://www.hoofrehab.com/Articles.html

I take it you are in USA? Here's good UK site and they have a Facebook group as well. Might be worth joining the ECIR horse group as well. They have tons of collective experience with laminitis, Cushings ect. It's usually recommended to start Prascend (Pergolide) at a low dose and gradually increase to avoid what they call the "Pergolide veil".
Laminitis needs a strict diet and appropriate trim and hoof support.
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/
 
He is on a strict diet of 4 cups triple crown senior this is for horses with Cushings as well senior is a very low starch, and his vitamins twice a day. He also has to be on hay cubes now which is a Timothy balance cube good for Cushings horses. I do turn him out to limited pasture, took him off the big grassy one when spring came to many sugars. I am in the USA originally from the UK. Not sure what a clue cleantrax soak is though. I was using Epsom salts and betadine recommended by the vet as they thought he might have an abscess he's so sore but there is no heat in the foot and the frog is pretty black. He had a white pus coming out of the heel when the farrier took of the heart bar shoe. He now has a regular shoe on that foot so I can get at it. You say pressure hurts on a thrush hoof could the poultice pad be putting pressure on that foot and would you think letting the air get to it would be better
 
This is cleantrax. You need a strong, long boot for the soak and its a USA gallon to mix. http://www.bigdweb.com/Cleantrax-25-Gram/productinfo/25899/

The poultice should be ok I was thinking of the frog support he had on before.

Diet is often best stripped back to straights to carry minerals and any supplements. Read through the links
A good high spec forage balancer may be your best option and extra vitamin E and table salt.
Whole fresh ground linseed is a good supplement to help reduce inflammation and replace omega oils lost in a restricted grass diet.
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet
 
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I will thank you. When I get this under control might rethink the pergolyde or do you think it's a bad idea. I just had terrible experience and every site I've been on someone has had a similar experience. Depression lethargy and it's amazing that the outer area of his sheath shrunk after coming off the pergolyde it had grown to the size of a grapefruit. The vet couldn't tell me what it was and another person suggested I clean it. I always clean it and that was never the problem, I do believe it was the Prascend. By the way he is 25 and a quarter horse.
 
I'm not that up on pergolide and problems with it but it is always good to look again at it. The advice atm in UK is to always treat with Pergolide as things such as laminitis may well recur out of the blue and overall health appears to be improved for much longer.
 
amandap said:
I'm not that up on pergolide and problems with it but it is always good to look again at it. The advice atm in UK is to always treat with Pergolide as things such as laminitis may well recur out of the blue and overall health appears to be improved for much longer.
Click to expand...

I read the info in the product out of a study on 177 horses some were lethargic some developed laminitis some died when I read that I took him right off it as he had gone thru two out of the three and there were more side effects the herbs I give him Hilton Herbs are from a vet in the UK they seem to be doing the job but when the vet comes on Monday I'm going to ask them to do his levels again. He's been off prascend for a month his quality of life is so much better except for the thrush but will keep posting and let you know. Thanks again
 
If you look more carefully at the study you will see that the horses were on 4 times the normal dose of the drug and were aged from 3 to 10, not even horses which had Cushings in the first place.

If you are having problems with it the vet advised us to reduce the dose for a while until they were eating normally again.
 
I will look into it again it is nice to hear that some have good results. I have only heard negative and it really scares you. You start to question it. The vet from Hilton herbs does not recommend pergolydes in any instance. But as I say I am glad to hear from people that have had positive results! He wasn't the same horse very depressed and lethargic didnt move from the spot where he was turned out just stood there and hung his head, it was sad. Then when he got sick the second time in just a few months well it was strange. With all the herbs he is on he is better than he ever was happy and looks great I just wish they would invent some kind of test like pricking your finger as they do for humans. Hate waiting a whole year for a new test.
 
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As amandap said, take a look at the laminitis site, very useful info for you...Usually you reduce the dose of Prascend if your horse becomes depressed/off feed, then up it again slowly ( even half a tablet) until at the recommended dose. Also, sheath swelling can be due to EMS/IR.
 
Just to add to the advice not to rule out pergolide too soon. He may need a lower dose, talk to your vet. I am on my second cushings horse and pergolide/prascend has literally been a lifesaver. But they have always been on the minimum dose possible. Regular blood tests will help figure out the right dose for him.
 
Thanks will approach the subject with her tomorrow. They are not to keen on other views though. I'm thinking I should maybe give him half the dose today or even a quarter and start him again. After listening to everyone who's horses have done good. Just not sure what to do. I was trying a holistic approach with herbs specifically designed for horses with Cushings. Right now I am very confused as I don't want to do the wrong thing. He is still very sore this morning again gave butte last night and this morning even when he developed laminitis in the other foot he was as lame as this. Hard to believe the thrush is what's the cause he is unusual as my vet calls him. Never shows clinical signs and developed laminitis in only one foot. This is the opposite foot now. I would like my horse back to the way he was before last fall , not sure if that will ever happen. The sad thing is he
Looks better than he ever has his coat shines, he has just the right weight on and he's happy despite the foot problems.
 
The herbs may relieve the symptoms of cushings, but not the underlying problem. Please try the Pergolide again, starting at a low dose and increasing over a number of weeks, it's the only real treatment option. I would also add echinacea to his diet to help support his immune system while you tackle the thrush.
 
Vet came out yesterday, and took more X-rays. He no longer has thrush but his left foot has dropped slightly and they suspect laminitis as well he is day three back on pergolyde with just half dose. I didn't talk to the vet about this, they might have flipped. The farrier came out in the afternoon and he wants to see X-rays doesn't think it's laminitis but maybe a bruised heel. I am so confused! The farrier is coming back tomorrow to put a heart bar shoe on and a pour pad. That's what's on his other foot that is clearly laminitic but under control. Feeling very foolish I listened to all the herb people about pergolyde being toxic and taking him off it. After all the packing and prodding yesterday he was so sore last night and this morning. Holds his foot out in front of him. He has a foam cushion on till they can get the new one poured. On butte twice a day still but doesn't seem to help also I'm getting conflicting reports on turn out vet says none for two weeks farrier says he will get depressed and walking gets the circulation going and is better for founder. Letting him walk on his own not walking him. And of all things my husbands vacation starts Friday and we have to go away. I have someone here but it's not me and I'm worrying like crazy can't sleep at night. A week is a long time to be away
 
Oh dear, perhaps suggest your farrier speaks to the vet.

Pedal bones drop (sink)due to weak lamina in my understanding and with the other foot affected it may well be likely it has affected both feet. It is a systemic condition not just in the hooves. The hooves often show the effects most clearly to us.

Hopefully he will be comfortable with the shoes and the pour pad will support and protect his hoof and you can have a lovely holiday. When you get back do all the research you can. Start with the laminitis site and the articles on Pete Ramey's web site.
 
I meant to say, try not to feel foolish for trying to do the best, just learn the lesson many of us have learned to do as much independent research you can to help you when talking with experts and making decisions. x
 
Taking my iPad with me and hopefully they have wifi so I can do research when I'm away. Thank you for the suggestion. Worried about going but the new shoe with pour pad goes on tomorrow and hopefully he is ok. Think yesterday was just a lot of poking on that foot as much as he's still really sore and keeping it in front of him he seems not as bad as yesterday. I put a new piece of hard foam on his foot and then duct taped it back up he walked much better....still limping a little but seems to be putting weight on it a little more. Hoping this new shoe tomorrow works wonders. Is the laminitis site on this web site or just on another web. I will also,look up Pete Ramsey. Thank you
 
Found the laminitis site. Thank you it was,very informative. Still not sure about stall rest or paddock though our paddock is thick sand. I live in the south where there is lots of sand. So I'm thinking he would be fine out in the paddock. Looking into Pete Ramsey's site next thanks again
 
Here's Pete Ramey's web site. http://www.hoofrehab.com/

Turnout on soft footing is ok but you have to think about how grazing may be affecting things. Turnout in pad/boots in a grass free area with soaked hay may be better atm. Diet is the single most important aspect so pay particular attention to those pages on all the sites. http://www.hoofrehab.com/
Here's the other site in case you found a different one. It has a link to the ECIR horse site which is worth lookig at as well. http://www.thelaminitissite.org/
 
Keep on with the Prascend, as it will help get the lami under control, up the dose after 5 days and continue to increase until you have reached vets recommended dose. If he becomes depressed/doesnt eat, lower it again by half a tablet.
Turnout in Very small paddock absolutely no grass, soaked ( for at least 6hrs) hay only until he is lami free and bute free for 6 weeks approx. This worked for my horse well.
Keep reading on The laminitis site and ask for help on the FB link, Andrea is very helpful and keeps up to date with latest research on PPID/Lami etc.
 
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