Thrush in the field kept horse

[paddy555]

It's also a one-off usually, treatment for thrush is far from one off usage.

as I see it many of the other treatments are not particularly effective and it does seem to be a continual treatment with them. Although some consider them harsher I do prefer those sort of more old fashioned treatments to get the problem sorted quickly.
It's a long time since I have treated for thrush but my choice would be copper sulphate soaking if I needed to. I would expect to do this twice. I would also have no problem with peroxide if needed
I doubt you will like that any better than iodine but I am looking for effectiveness.

although I do think Red Horse are a bit overrated tbh. It doesn't work any more or less well than iodine and it's several times the price...

I agree. I'm not sure of the need or wisdom of continually putting treatments on feet , to deal with a problem yes but otherwise I think feet were designed to be able to cope without lotions and potions.

 

[Fieldlife]

as I see it many of the other treatments are not particularly effective and it does seem to be a continual treatment with them. Although some consider them harsher I do prefer those sort of more old fashioned treatments to get the problem sorted quickly.
It's a long time since I have treated for thrush but my choice would be copper sulphate soaking if I needed to. I would expect to do this twice. I would also have no problem with peroxide if needed
I doubt you will like that any better than iodine but I am looking for effectiveness.

The problem is caustic treatments kill thrush and stunt the new tissue growing. Definitely brief use is safer than prolonged use.

Iodine for thrush can also sting, I’ve witnessed many horses get very objectionable to repeated iodine foot treatment.

I agree. I'm not sure of the need or wisdom of continually putting treatments on feet , to deal with a problem yes but otherwise I think feet were designed to be able to cope without lotions and potions.

Depends IMO. Horses weren’t designed to be kept in captivity in a wetland country either.

That’s the advantage of non caustic effective products such as red horse / athletes foot powder / salt water / sudocrem etc. They can be used frequently when it’s wet without negative effects on hoof tissue.

 

[paddy555]

The problem is caustic treatments kill thrush and stunt the new tissue growing. Definitely brief use is safer than prolonged use.

Iodine for thrush can also sting, I’ve witnessed many horses get very objectionable to repeated iodine foot treatment.



Depends IMO. Horses weren’t designed to be kept in captivity in a wetland country either.

That’s the advantage of non caustic effective products such as red horse / athletes foot powder / salt water / sudocrem etc. They can be used frequently when it’s wet without negative effects on hoof tissue.

I think we will just have to beg to differ. I have heard the comments about iodine endlessly repeated but I can't relate to them in reality. I haven't had any problems with new tissue growing with iodine. . Also I have never noticed any reaction from the horse so I have no reason to think it has stung them.

I live in a very wet area but I still don't see frequent use of all of these products are needed as a matter of course. In fact I wonder how on earth we managed for many years before Red Horse etc all came into being. Several of mine effectively live out, they have shelter but no dry bedding and spend most of their time on wet ground some of which is low lying and boggy. I don't clean their feet I just let the earth compact into the grooves as it would do if they were living wild..

Unless I was specifically treating the frog, grooves and sulchus for something I wouldn't put anything on it as I wouldn't want to trap any bugs. I just don't see the point of using them, for me money can be much better spent elsewhere.

 

[Nudibranch]

It's...not...caustic.

But hey, why would I listen to a medical expert?

It's drying. Which in itself is not necessarily a problem when we are talking about thrushy hooves and soles. It is not caustic. This is povidone iodine we are talking about here, which is not the same as some of the other iodine compounds people might get confused with.

Anyway.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Unless the hoof is brought in to balance and starts to land heel first with light pressure on the frog, nothing will clear thrush. Blood circulation in the frog needs to be working as it should before healthy tissue begins to build. At that point, your thrush treatment of choice will begin to bash the infection.

 

[ycbm]

Thin household bleach, 3% peroxide, turpentine and iodine are all effective against active thrush, and stockholm tar and turpentine are good preventives, but the marketers are good at convincing people they need a specialist horse product. Horses weren't crippled by thrush before the specialist products became available.

ETA i can't see any thrush or any unusual depth to the central sulcus in that photo, either.
.

 

[paddy555]

Thin household bleach, 3% peroxide, turpentine and iodine are all effective against active thrush, and stockholm tar and turpentine are good preventives, but the marketers are good at convincing people they need a specialist horse product. Horses weren't crippled by thrush before the specialist products became available.

ETA i can't see any thrush or any unusual depth to the central sulcus in that photo, either.
.

yikes! those aren't going to be popular suggestions.

we did however seem to manage perfectly well before before specialist products came out and people were convinced that the more money they threw at it the more they were doing the best for their horse. A bit like most horse marketing of products. The guilt factor of not buying fancy horse products.

 

[cauda equina]

When I was a kid I don't remember much in the way of specialist horse products; mostly we just used whatever was in the cupboard for the cattle and sheep

 

[stangs]

Right, time for the post of shame.

Had a good sniff of horse’s feet today, and I thought I could smell the thrush, albeit faintly (except on the LF, where it was strong), on all 4 feet. Then I convinced non-horsey friend to have a sniff and they reported back only smelling anything bad on the LF. So apparently the Sole Cleanse has mostly done its job, and I’m just delusional.

Is it possible for thrush to vary from day to day? As I’m sure I smelt a strong smell from all four feet the other day when they were wet, whereas today they were dry and the smell was faint.

Unfortunately it seems the issues with picking up his fores are related to muscle soreness. He does have bruising though, so that was a good guess and possibly another factor.

On the ‘plus’ side, I got out a ruler today and he definitely is frog-walking, on all four feet but especially the fores. Thank you @paddy555 for pointing out something that neither farrier noticed/thought to bring up (just when you thought you’d found a professional you could rely on…) What would people advise for dealing with this in terms of nutrition/boots?

 

[Miss_Millie]

I'm not sure if this will be of any help, but when I bought my mare, she was also already barefoot and had foot soreness. Using an Equine Podiatrist instead of a farrier has been a game changer for us personally. My EP photographed all of her feet, studied the angles, and did trot ups before even beginning to trim. EP also wanted to know her diet and helped me to tweak it accordingly.

I'm sure that there are some farriers who know how to do a good barefoot trim/mustang roll, but the farrier I used at first did not, she was trimmed as if she was going to be shod, which made soreness worse and also the hoof wall chipped badly. If you aren't convinced that your farrier is getting the hoof angle right then you might want to look into an Equine Podiatrist instead.

I use Scoot Boots on my mare, we only use them for hacking now for grip on the roads, but they were also useful when her feet were sore for everyday stuff. I've found them to be excellent, they are easy to take on and off even though she has feather, and they haven't shifted even at a gallop, so haven't worried in the slightest about them coming off.

I use a Forageplus hoof balancer in her daily feed, which I feel has made a difference to the strength of her hooves. They don't chip at all now.

 

[paddy555]

Right, time for the post of shame.

Had a good sniff of horse’s feet today, and I thought I could smell the thrush, albeit faintly (except on the LF, where it was strong), on all 4 feet. Then I convinced non-horsey friend to have a sniff and they reported back only smelling anything bad on the LF. So apparently the Sole Cleanse has mostly done its job, and I’m just delusional.

Is it possible for thrush to vary from day to day? As I’m sure I smelt a strong smell from all four feet the other day when they were wet, whereas today they were dry and the smell was faint.

Unfortunately it seems the issues with picking up his fores are related to muscle soreness. He does have bruising though, so that was a good guess and possibly another factor.

On the ‘plus’ side, I got out a ruler today and he definitely is frog-walking, on all four feet but especially the fores. Thank you @paddy555 for pointing out something that neither farrier noticed/thought to bring up (just when you thought you’d found a professional you could rely on…) What would people advise for dealing with this in terms of nutrition/boots?

I suspect your problems are.
firstly your feet are not growing to keep up with wear and we have already discussed supplements. Either equimins, FP or PE. I would also make sure you are feeding sufficient protein in his diet. Can't remember his diet but some (not all)for some reason get a bit sore with dried alfalfa eg alfaA. Alfalfa pellets seem to be OK.

next from the look of the feet and your description he is either sore on his frogs because they are simply too weighted for this stage of his development
next he has foot bruising rather than muscle soreness as such. However it is easy to confuse foot soreness with muscle soreness because what starts in the feet leads to the body loading badly and muscle soreness very quickly. Thirdly you basically you have sore feet for whatever reason.

You don't mention boots, I don't think, so I assume he has been ridden barefoot. I'm afraid those feet IMHO are not up to BF. Please be careful with bruising as that can lead to abscessing and poulticing is a pain in the arse.

You might smell slight thrush on and off in a horse with wet feet but it is really not of consequence I don't think in your feet. I don't think thrush is your problem, there are a lot of other points which provide a far more credible explanation as i have detailed above.

What to do is you must protect the feet at all times. If he is on soft grass/rubber mats/ most sorts of bedding he will be fine but stones, tarmac or any other hard surface and he needs boots. I don't know if he is rideable, I suspect not ATM from your description. I would expect to ride him fully booted for at least 3 months when you can ride to protect his feet. After that time reassess but even after that time you will be riding him booted for a good part of the time and very slowly conditioning him to BF if in fact you want to. You may decide riding booted has advantages. Don't forget his hinds also affect him, people often just boot the fronts but i would be looking at 4 boots until you get this sorted.

The boots I most definitely would not use are renegades (they are more of a performance boot and expensive) Not scoots because the sole is too thin to give adequate protection on stones. I think the flex are also probably out of it for the same reason as scoots.
The boots with the thickest soles are easycare ones ie gloves. There are also cavallos. You can pad cavallos, you would probably only get a thin pad in a gloves with those feet.

Gloves are a better riding boot, cavallos are more clumpy. You could get some cavallos which are probably slightly less rigid on fitting, (gloves have to fit,) you would have he option of a pad and then use those to start walking him out/riding. Then next spring when his feet are sorted get some better riding boots to carry on with.

This is not an uncommon problem and easy to deal with. It is just a case of time and protecting the feet. If they are bruised either frog and or sole then it is going to take time for the bruising to resolve. You may even have to go back to a few short walks booted in hand to start with. I suspect you will know when his feet are feeling better when you try to pick all his feet up one day and he just does it without thinking.
If you need to pick a foot up then stand him on rubber, carpeting, anything to give the loaded foot a kind surface to weight bear on.

I wouldn't let anyone trim him ATM, they are unlikely to get the feet up anyway. I presume you don't have a rasp or any experience in using one and if that is the case then I would get a sanding block, a fiver at B & Q, and just run it around the edge frequently like an emery board to keep the edge of the wall smooth and prevent chipping.

If you have a BF horse then I think most people will need to learn to use a rasp to maintain the feet. Have a look at rasps and also at radius rasps (lots on here if you search) and see what you think.


.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Brilliant advice from Paddy555. A barefoot trim is a little different from a pasture trim, and I do wish the farriery company would move with the times. There are some really good supportive barefoot farriers who know their stuff, but sadly not all are like that.
A pair of Cavallo Trek boots with a baby's nappy used as a sock is a good start to get things moving. Once you can get him comfortable, then recovery can begin.

 

[stangs]

I suspect your problems are.
firstly your feet are not growing to keep up with wear and we have already discussed supplements. Either equimins, FP or PE. I would also make sure you are feeding sufficient protein in his diet. Can't remember his diet but some (not all)for some reason get a bit sore with dried alfalfa eg alfaA. Alfalfa pellets seem to be OK.

next from the look of the feet and your description he is either sore on his frogs because they are simply too weighted for this stage of his development
next he has foot bruising rather than muscle soreness as such. However it is easy to confuse foot soreness with muscle soreness because what starts in the feet leads to the body loading badly and muscle soreness very quickly. Thirdly you basically you have sore feet for whatever reason.

You don't mention boots, I don't think, so I assume he has been ridden barefoot. I'm afraid those feet IMHO are not up to BF. Please be careful with bruising as that can lead to abscessing and poulticing is a pain in the arse.

You might smell slight thrush on and off in a horse with wet feet but it is really not of consequence I don't think in your feet. I don't think thrush is your problem, there are a lot of other points which provide a far more credible explanation as i have detailed above.

What to do is you must protect the feet at all times. If he is on soft grass/rubber mats/ most sorts of bedding he will be fine but stones, tarmac or any other hard surface and he needs boots. I don't know if he is rideable, I suspect not ATM from your description. I would expect to ride him fully booted for at least 3 months when you can ride to protect his feet. After that time reassess but even after that time you will be riding him booted for a good part of the time and very slowly conditioning him to BF if in fact you want to. You may decide riding booted has advantages. Don't forget his hinds also affect him, people often just boot the fronts but i would be looking at 4 boots until you get this sorted.

The boots I most definitely would not use are renegades (they are more of a performance boot and expensive) Not scoots because the sole is too thin to give adequate protection on stones. I think the flex are also probably out of it for the same reason as scoots.
The boots with the thickest soles are easycare ones ie gloves. There are also cavallos. You can pad cavallos, you would probably only get a thin pad in a gloves with those feet.

Gloves are a better riding boot, cavallos are more clumpy. You could get some cavallos which are probably slightly less rigid on fitting, (gloves have to fit,) you would have he option of a pad and then use those to start walking him out/riding. Then next spring when his feet are sorted get some better riding boots to carry on with.

This is not an uncommon problem and easy to deal with. It is just a case of time and protecting the feet. If they are bruised either frog and or sole then it is going to take time for the bruising to resolve. You may even have to go back to a few short walks booted in hand to start with. I suspect you will know when his feet are feeling better when you try to pick all his feet up one day and he just does it without thinking.
If you need to pick a foot up then stand him on rubber, carpeting, anything to give the loaded foot a kind surface to weight bear on.

I wouldn't let anyone trim him ATM, they are unlikely to get the feet up anyway. I presume you don't have a rasp or any experience in using one and if that is the case then I would get a sanding block, a fiver at B & Q, and just run it around the edge frequently like an emery board to keep the edge of the wall smooth and prevent chipping.

If you have a BF horse then I think most people will need to learn to use a rasp to maintain the feet. Have a look at rasps and also at radius rasps (lots on here if you search) and see what you think.


.

Thank you, this is really helpful.

Muscle soreness was the physio's idea. She thinks that his general soreness (ridden issues before I bought him) will have an impact, but will have also been escalated by not being comfortable on his feet. I did notice that he was much better to have his feet done after she'd been. Perhaps that was to do with endorphins rather than the actual physio though.

He's unridden but yes, has been going out barefoot and working in the field barefoot too. That'll now be put on hold until boots and feed arrive.

 

[Goldenstar]

I always use iodine on soles and frogs in winter .

 

[Dexter]

Thank you, this is really helpful.

Muscle soreness was the physio's idea. She thinks that his general soreness (ridden issues before I bought him) will have an impact, but will have also been escalated by not being comfortable on his feet. I did notice that he was much better to have his feet done after she'd been. Perhaps that was to do with endorphins rather than the actual physio though.

He's unridden but yes, has been going out barefoot and working in the field barefoot too. That'll now be put on hold until boots and feed arrive.

Please do a test for PSSM. Refusal to lift the feet was one of mines issues that went away once the PSSM was under control. That combined with muscle soreness and his type, youve got major red flags for PSSM unfortunately.

 

[stangs]

Please do a test for PSSM. Refusal to lift the feet was one of mines issues that went away once the PSSM was under control. That combined with muscle soreness and his type, youve got major red flags for PSSM unfortunately.

Muscle soreness and tightness is directly linked to how he was ridden so I don't know if it'd be a symptom. Onset at 17 years of age seems a bit late?

 

[Fieldlife]

Right, time for the post of shame.

Had a good sniff of horse’s feet today, and I thought I could smell the thrush, albeit faintly (except on the LF, where it was strong), on all 4 feet. Then I convinced non-horsey friend to have a sniff and they reported back only smelling anything bad on the LF. So apparently the Sole Cleanse has mostly done its job, and I’m just delusional.

Is it possible for thrush to vary from day to day? As I’m sure I smelt a strong smell from all four feet the other day when they were wet, whereas today they were dry and the smell was faint.

Unfortunately it seems the issues with picking up his fores are related to muscle soreness. He does have bruising though, so that was a good guess and possibly another factor.

On the ‘plus’ side, I got out a ruler today and he definitely is frog-walking, on all four feet but especially the fores. Thank you @paddy555 for pointing out something that neither farrier noticed/thought to bring up (just when you thought you’d found a professional you could rely on…) What would people advise for dealing with this in terms of nutrition/boots?

probably unpopular but my understanding for a barefoot horse where frogs are proud of sole and horse lives out and 24-7 boots aren’t feasible, I think you’d want to trim the frog back so the weight bearing is shared sole / wall / frog.

 

[Wishfilly]

I'm another who doesn't think his feet look bad in terms of thrush? I've used red horse field paste on my pony with success in the past. It isn't cheap, but it does work imo, and doesn't need to be used forever. Mine is a real mud monster though and will happily stand ankle deep in mud through choice.

Is he definitely reluctant to pick up feet because of pain? If you've been doing lots of sole cleanses etc, he may just not want to be standing on one leg for that long, and being reluctant for that reason?

I'd be very tempted to give him a week of just picking out feet quickly and see if it made any difference?

 

[stangs]

Is he definitely reluctant to pick up feet because of pain? If you've been doing lots of sole cleanses etc, he may just not want to be standing on one leg for that long, and being reluctant for that reason?

I'd be very tempted to give him a week of just picking out feet quickly and see if it made any difference?

Will try, though I don't hold his leg for long as is and I do let him stand on it in between. I'm leaning towards it being pain as he especially tends to snatch his foot when I do anything to the frog.

 

[Fieldlife]

Will try, though I don't hold his leg for long as is and I do let him stand on it in between. I'm leaning towards it being pain as he especially tends to snatch his foot when I do anything to the frog.

I spray daily with sole cleanse. And I don’t think it stings feet. My horse is unfussed. Though it does sting open cuts (can testify to that).

It is a trust and vulnerability issue to stand immobilised with one foot in the air.

Or maybe if frogs are proud it’s too painful to bear more weight on the opposite leg.

 

[mini_b]

Red Horse are a bit overrated tbh. It doesn't work any more or less well than iodine and it's several times the price...

Also found this. Used 2 bottles religiously and not a difference.

 

[Fieldlife]

Thank you, this is really helpful.

Muscle soreness was the physio's idea. She thinks that his general soreness (ridden issues before I bought him) will have an impact, but will have also been escalated by not being comfortable on his feet. I did notice that he was much better to have his feet done after she'd been. Perhaps that was to do with endorphins rather than the actual physio though.

He's unridden but yes, has been going out barefoot and working in the field barefoot too. That'll now be put on hold until boots and feed arrive.

What boots and feed are you going for?

 

[stangs]

What boots and feed are you going for?

Cavallos for boots I think.
Honeychop Lite & Healthy and Progressive Earth's Pro Laminae+ for feed. We'll see how he goes with that, and then add pea protein/joint support/etc if necessary. Don't have the mental space to plan anything else right now!

 

[Fieldlife]

Cavallos for boots I think.
Honeychop Lite & Healthy and Progressive Earth's Pro Laminae+ for feed. We'll see how he goes with that, and then add pea protein/joint support/etc if necessary. Don't have the mental space to plan anything else right now!

Good basic boots if fit. I’ve had 2 horses with heel bulbs too big so rub. But know loads of people have worked well for.

PE Pro Laminae is a fair volume to get them to eat. You might find all minerals aren’t very palatable and that low sugar chaff isn’t enticing enough to get to eat minerals.

 

[paddy555]

Please do a test for PSSM. Refusal to lift the feet was one of mines issues that went away once the PSSM was under control. That combined with muscle soreness and his type, youve got major red flags for PSSM unfortunately.

problem with this is there is no recognised test for PSSM2 and the reluctance to pick up feet can be readily attributed to his current feet. However as the horse is 17 then the test I would be thinking of is ACTH (for Cushings) If there is muscle loss/loss of top line then that would be high on my list.

If you work through what I suggested above stangs and you can't get growth or make any progress and haven't already done so you could consider an ACTH test (single blood draw by vet)

 

[Goldenstar]

Troublesome fungal infections can certainly be a indication of Cushings .

 

[Dexter]

Muscle soreness and tightness is directly linked to how he was ridden so I don't know if it'd be a symptom. Onset at 17 years of age seems a bit late?

You cant know where the muscle soreness came from, and yes onset at 17 wouldn't happen. But the vast majority of horses with type 1 never get picked up on so I wouldnt be remotely surprised if hes had it and its not been picked up on. Its £30 for the test. It is always worth doing to rule it out, which hopefully it will be

 

[Fieldlife]

Please do a test for PSSM. Refusal to lift the feet was one of mines issues that went away once the PSSM was under control. That combined with muscle soreness and his type, youve got major red flags for PSSM unfortunately.

In a horse that’s 17.

Been stabled with limited turnout most of his life. Been working sound previously.

With known arthritis and frogs lower than hoof wall . . . .
Why would you assume PPSM as a starting point?

I know it’s a very fashionable current under diagnosed issue.
I’m struggling to follow the logic for PPSM being highly likely for this horse.

 

[Reacher]

(posted accidentally!)