Tickeridge - Foundation points table leader

[susie2193]

Hi

Firstly appologies if this already been discussed. But I was just musing as to why this horse has spent all season winning or good placing at BE100. I know it is only 5, but I would have thought stepping up to Novice and doing fewer runs, it had 18 runs this year which in my book is a lot for any horse, let alone a 5 year old. It had 1 elimination, and up until the 5yr old championships, where it was 7th, wasn't out of the top 6 all season. With 8 firsts, 2 at BE90.

Not critising the strategy just curious as to why ? - It did a novice at the end of the season, be interseting to see what it does next year.

 

[DarkHorseB]

I can only assume for the glory of being points champion. May add to his value I guess if he is to sell at some point?
From the fact he did not do any regional finals despite all those wins I assume the rider is not eligible for Grassroots final and now he has a point from Novice assume not eligible for next years RFs so it cannot be for that reason he was kept at that level.
Personally I agree 18 runs is an awful lot for a 5yo and as a buyer that would put me off. Not that I could afford a horse like him anyway

 

[Seahorse]

I know the part owners of this horse, and live near where the horse is based. I went there (Golden Cross) to a Sam Penn demo the other week and was one of the horses she rode.
He is an amazing horse, very talented indeed and really enjoys his work.

Sam Penn is a very good rider and is brilliant at producing young horses, however they never seem to get to the higher levels. I don't know if Tickeridge will be any different, although I hope so.
I can't remember what she said was the plan for him next year, but it might be on the Golden Cross website.

 

[Zebedee]

QR. BE 100 is the top of the riders comfort zone perhaps? Sucess at any level doesn't necessarily mean ability to continue to the next.

(Disclaimer - I have no personal knowledge of the horse or rider - just putting a theory forward, which if not applicable in this case is in many others !)

 

[susie2193]

Zebedee, I agree that is the limit of many riders and if that were the case I would understand it, but Sam Penn produces young horses and rode at advanced and CCI*** this year. So definitly not her limit.

 

[millitiger]

i think it was probably to be the FP points winner for this year.

I think because of horses and riders like this they need to re-introduce the 3 wins and you are ineligible to the lower levels- imo it is ridiculous a horse like this is ok and within the rules to run in normal Intro and PN sections.

Not saying people need to go up to Novice sooner than they are ready but they could go into Open sections.

 

[LoNatalie]

My friend owns and rides Arctic Flynn and she's in 2nd behind Tickeridge. Ran 17times, attempted a novice, retired xc and went to BE100 again I'm guessing to gain more confidence. She's (the rider) 13 though!!

 

[susie2193]

My friend owns and rides Arctic Flynn and she's in 2nd behind Tickeridge. Ran 17times, attempted a novice, retired xc and went to BE100 again I'm guessing to gain more confidence. She's (the rider) 13 though!!

LoNatalie, In my opinion your friend is what grass roots and foundation points are about. Her horse is 13, as is she. I don't think 17 runs at BE100, for an older horse is that excessive, Tickeridge is only 5, and Sam Penn is a professional. Also with due respect her record wasn't nearly as impressive, and at 13 is she really ready to move up to Novice, although I think she should be looking towards open classes.

Millitiger, I agree 100%, they need to reintroduce the 3 win rule, and if riders don't want to step up they can do open BE100, or go HC.

 

[LoNatalie]

LoNatalie, In my opinion your friend is what grass roots and foundation points are about. Her horse is 13, as is she. I don't think 17 runs at BE100, for an older horse is that excessive, Tickeridge is only 5, and Sam Penn is a professional. Also with due respect her record wasn't nearly as impressive, and at 13 is she really ready to move up to Novice, although I think she should be looking towards open classes.

Yea I know I just posted it to show a bit of contrast, I think Tickeridge should have been ran less and/or moved up to novice.

 

[charlimouse]

i think it was probably to be the FP points winner for this year.

I think because of horses and riders like this they need to re-introduce the 3 wins and you are ineligible to the lower levels- imo it is ridiculous a horse like this is ok and within the rules to run in normal Intro and PN sections.

Not saying people need to go up to Novice sooner than they are ready but they could go into Open sections.

Completely agree!

 

[lizzie_liz]

I may not event but if I did I wouldn't like to go into a class knowing there was a horse there that for the majority of previous events it had won. This would also encourage more competitors in the Open classes.

 

[photo_jo]

I'm not saying either way that it is right or wrong other than the horse is only five and although it is going double clear only the rider can know when it feels ready to move up to the next level. It boils down to successful and unsuccessful, they've had the same trouble in dressage with the open and restricted-lets face it what would all you people say if the horse had the same record but with a ten mark worse dressage everytime, nothing me thinks!

 

[only_me]

They should bring in that only the best 7 event scores should be counted or similar; would mean that people wouldnt need to run so often and still in with a shot

 

[photo_jo]

They should bring in that only the best 7 event scores should be counted or similar; would mean that people wouldnt need to run so often and still in with a shot

now that would be a neat idea

 

[IANB]

Aa part of the syndicate that own Tickeridge I may be able to put some light on the reasoning behind his runs.The horse is only five and a very late foal at that,he won most of his events by virtue of his very good dressage marks and normally went clear show jumping.
After winning the four year old champs last year he ran in an intro at the begginning of the season in which he went very well.He needed more miles on the clock at cross country and Sam and i felt that as a five year old with loads of ability and talent he needed to gain more confidence at this level before moving up to novice.This he has now done and stormed round Pulborough Novice which he would of also won without 8 very rare penalties SJ,again due to an excellent dressage mark.
This horse should now be set up for life and will run novice next season with maybe a BE100 Open at the beggining of the season.
It is our policy not to run 5yr olds novice till the very end of the season and we will not in the future.
The horse won the foundation points table fair and square and surely its better that a five year old won than a thirteen year old,isnt this what the lower levels are for,this country has a history of bringing on young horses correctly which then become the back bone of our successful senior teams,Tickeridge could well be one.
The horse has finished the seson sound,no lumps or bumps,has had a couple of days hunting and now on his holidays and yes he will probably be on the market next year.

 

[Zebedee]

Maybe the horse isn't going to progress beyond BE 100? As someone pointed out on another thread if it's more suited to an RC home it my be better if it hasn't any points?

I'm not defending what appears on the surface to have happened here - there may be a genuine reason though.

 

[IANB]

I forgot to add that his elimination at Moreton Morrell was because Sam inadvertanly missed out a XC fence otherwise he would of won there as well,which would probably mean more gripes .

 

[susie2193]

Ian

Thank you for coimng on here and telling the other side of the story. As I said in my original post, I wasn't critising, just wondered the rational behind his runs.

My personnal opinion is similar to yours and that I wouldn't run a 5 year old at novice, but I also wouldn't run a five year old as often as you did. But that as I say is my opinion.

But I do also think that the 3 wins and move to open rule should be reinstated.

Where I do disagree is your comments that it is better for a young horse to lead the table rather than a 13 year old. I thought that foundation points were set up with grassroots riders in mind, and not for professional riders to showcase their young horses, although I do appreciate that BE publish two tables, one overall and one grass roots.

I hope to see Tickeridge go on and have a successful career at the higher levels. Only time will tell how far he will go.

 

[only_me]

now that would be a neat idea

Its what Eventing Ireland do for the 4&5 year old champs league - only the best 5 scores to count

 

[IANB]

Ian

Thank you for coimng on here and telling the other side of the story. As I said in my original post, I wasn't critising, just wondered the rational behind his runs.

My personnal opinion is similar to yours and that I wouldn't run a 5 year old at novice, but I also wouldn't run a five year old as often as you did. But that as I say is my opinion.

But I do also think that the 3 wins and move to open rule should be reinstated.

Where I do disagree is your comments that it is better for a young horse to lead the table rather than a 13 year old. I thought that foundation points were set up with grassroots riders in mind, and not for professional riders to showcase their young horses, although I do appreciate that BE publish two tables, one overall and one grass roots.

I hope to see Tickeridge go on and have a successful career at the higher levels. Only time will tell how far he will go.

Running the horse had nothing whatsoever with foundation points,he needed and benifited from runs at that level,its not all about winning, but producing top class youngsters that will go on in the future,it was never in our plans or thoughts to win the Foundation points table and didnt relise we had till 2 weeks ago !

 

[LoNatalie]

The horse won the foundation points table fair and square and surely its better that a five year old won than a thirteen year old,isnt this what the lower levels are for,this country has a history of bringing on young horses correctly which then become the back bone of our successful senior teams,Tickeridge could well be one.

Can I point out the rider (my friend) was 13 not the pony, and she herself has produced her pony to this level on her own, which is no mean feat. Pony is also 13, but hadn't evented before her so I dont see how that is against her rank wise..


Congrats on being winning owner.

 

[IANB]

Can I point out the rider (my friend) was 13 not the pony, and she herself has produced her pony to this level on her own, which is no mean feat. Pony is also 13, but hadn't evented before her so I dont see how that is against her rank wise..


Congrats on being winning owner.

No offence was meant,congratulations to your friend on a good season.We must all remember that the BE90/BE100 is not just the domain of the amateur rider/combination,it is dual purpose and when they were intoduced to the sport the classes were aimed at giving young horses a happy start to the sport.
With a separate ranking list for grassroot riders and there championships BE have the balance about right.

 

[ArcticFox]

My only concern would be that he ran 18 times - that would mean that he ran at least every other weekend throughout the BE season. BE events run over 36 weekends. I just feel that is a lot for a young horse.

 

[IANB]

I agree the horse did run 18 times which is fortnightly and it didnt take a lot out of him,he is so unstressed at a competition and would probably do more at home on competition days and where ever he ran the ground was good.He would not of learnt much standing at home ! If you think about it 10 mins dressage warm up,he never needed any more,a couple of practise fences fences before SJ and the same XC,probably not on board for more than 50 mins max.
Tickeridge is a horse that finds everything so easy and is probably an exception to the rule,there are others in the yard who are stress heads and come home metally exhausted and did not run as often,run up light etc.
I feel totally justified in all we did this year and should not be drawn into a debate on the rights and wrongs,all horses are different and react differently.

 

[ArcticFox]

As an inexperienced eventer I just thought it sounded alot. I used to BSJA 3 weekends out of 4 for one day (two days max) and that was pretty normal. I did notice that young horses used to get a bit bored towards the end of the season and needed a break. I also used to compete them all year round barring a holiday in October and November, back into work December for xmas and new year shows. I think that is pretty normal for BS

Moving to eventing, I thought that one event is far more effort than one BSJA show. I do see your point about taking a horse who is mentally up to it, my current horse seems to take it all in his stride whereas my last horse couldn't cope with it.

Well done on your win, I would love to be up there one day!

 

[Thistle]

The trouble with eventing is that the horse needs to be kept fitter, so the actual workload is greater because of the fittening work.

Like IANB though I would prefer to run a horse at an event where the ground is prepared than do fast work on out local tracks, oh for some gallops!

I would love to see a long term study that correlates early workload in young competition horses against longevity of competing. We all know that race horses can and do break down but they are generally so much younger.

 

[shoelace]

well to sum it all up Tickeridge is a lovely horse ridden by a kind caring rider, and if he was mine which sadly he isnt I would be very proud to own such a lovely horse and to have a very talented rider like sam on board , well done sam you have done a fab job with all your horses , to many people hide behind these forums all the chat but sadly no idear what their talking aboult , to many wanabes come on open up your BE records if you got one and lets see how well you have done ,

 

[kerilli]

I think 8 wins in a season is a lot, and do wish that BE hadn't changed the rule on this, after 3 wins at BE100 I think a horse should be switched to Open sections, personally, to give everyone else more of a chance at this level - just my two penneth worth.
I'm not going to comment on the number of runs the horse has had - that is the owner's and the rider's business. I hope the horse goes on to great things.
I've never done more than about 12 or 13 one-days in a year, and then a 3-day, but that was down to cost as much as anything else.
[Oh, and shoelace, anyone can look up my BE record, I'm not hiding - my horses' BE names are at the bottom of my siggy, so a tiny bit of cross-referencing and you'll know who I am. I produced them all from scratch to varying levels, including 2* with 2 horses and 3* with another one. There are some glitches and gaps in the BE database though, especially if you go back a few years!]

 

[susie2193]

well to sum it all up Tickeridge is a lovely horse ridden by a kind caring rider, and if he was mine which sadly he isnt I would be very proud to own such a lovely horse and to have a very talented rider like sam on board , well done sam you have done a fab job with all your horses , to many people hide behind these forums all the chat but sadly no idear what their talking aboult , to many wanabes come on open up your BE records if you got one and lets see how well you have done ,

I haven't critised the number of runs the horse had, just asked the question why so many, which I think IANB has explained. But I do echo what Kerrelli said, that BE should never have got rid of the 3 wins and move to open classes rule.

And shoelace I can assure you I am not a wanabe with no idea what I am talking about.

 

[ArcticFox]

well to sum it all up Tickeridge is a lovely horse ridden by a kind caring rider, and if he was mine which sadly he isnt I would be very proud to own such a lovely horse and to have a very talented rider like sam on board , well done sam you have done a fab job with all your horses , to many people hide behind these forums all the chat but sadly no idear what their talking aboult , to many wanabes come on open up your BE records if you got one and lets see how well you have done ,

Feel free to look at my BE record, my last horse was called Montana V and new horse Dunbeggan Diamond Boy. And as I have previously posted I am an inexperienced eventer. I was jut commenting to find out more about the choice to run so many times.

Thank you IanB for answering, and as previously posted Well done on winning.