Tightness over back/in neck

[cosmo_sam]

It is my understanding (from my trainers/reading etc) that this problem (often caused by incorrect riding) can lead to all sorts of behaviour problems from excessive spooking, to tanking at jumps, poles down etc.

It surprises me that I don't read much debate about this subject on here?

What does everyone think?

 

[tigers_eye]

I think it's such a vast subject, and many times described in different words. I think a lot of posts on the whole forum do address different parts of it, but perhaps not always in the same words... just a thought really...

 

[Partoow]

Thats exactly right Tigers-eye! Most of the schooling difficulties that i reply to are related to or are part of this problem.
any of the contact problems are the symptom , remember what you feel in your hand is always related to what is/not happening behind you, I.e the hind legs. Tightness then becomes a problem when the transmition of that hind leg is not able to get through. Think of a hose with a kink in it , no matter how hard you turn the tap on the water only dribbles out. Remove the kink and the flow happens readily. Thats just like the energy from the hind leg and this is why this tension in the neck and back are considered training faults .
Wordy explanation but it is 'how long is a piece of string' I've spent 25yrs occupied with the subject!!!!

 

[cosmo_sam]

I thinks that's a really good analogy!

I think what I'm circling around is that I've actually watched someone with a horse that tanks at fences (SJ and XC). The rider is often trying new bits and talking about how strong her horse is (I may add that this rider is an AI).

I've also seen someone try and suggest to her that the horse is tight and that, that is very often the reason for this sort of behaviour. The rider didn't seem to want to hear that and just rambled on about new bits, the person trying to make the suggestion then quietly nodded and left her to it.

The horse is clearly very rigid in it's topline.

I've seen lots of tips given in advice threads re bits and schooling tips etc, but rarely does this foundation issue get explained.

I'm not an instructor and wouldn't dream to feel qualified to give an explanation of what you've said is such a vast issue. It just would be nice to hear someone more in a position to comment on here to give a breakdown of how this sort of problem is related.

In my experience few horses are actually strong, but lots are tight and so behave strong (if that makes sense?)

Just a pondering really!

Sam x

 

[evsj]

Did you post this in the 'spoking' post yesterday? I take note because this is something my mare has had since I first got her and it does add up. She is very spooky and we often get comments about her tightness in tests but she is not strong. Since getting her saddle converted to flair, i think I am closer to finding the solution - i've already seen a vast improvement in the amount of muscling on her shoulders after just a few weeks in walk.

 

[cosmo_sam]

Yeah that was me

Dragon has a tendency to be tight, and when he was very tight when his owner first bought him, he was very spooky. He holds his neck too when he gets worried and that makes it worse.

I'd also add he's not strong at all.

My old share mare was very strong though and she was tight at first (hence why I talk about have experienced them feeling strong because of it)

Also Dragon has had a M2M saddle for the last 10 months so as you say like your mare his saddling prior could have added to the problem.

 

[Partoow]

Ok Sam and Moodie ! you are both right the symptoms you decribe are very much symptoms of this tightness. Spooking is because they are not yet fully connected from the leg to the hand , a simple phrase to use but not always so straight foward to achieve!!!!To begin to develope this the leg must be seen by the horse as a connecting 'ask' not a speed up ask.You want the horse to understand that one leg at the girth means step off and connect to the outside rein he must also be contained by the outside rein, you mensioned a mare getting very strong in the outside rein this is what i mean by contained. When you apply the rein it is with the arm bent making a straight line from the elbow through the lower arm with your fingers wanting the contact to be held in the bit rings [ i always say that the only reason we have reins is that our arms are'nt long enough to hold the bit rings] this understanding of the contact is fundimental in developing the horses desire to want to connect to the hand , your aim being that both you and the horse are holding the weight of the rein in stillness. The use of the word stillness is often mistaken for blocking. The hand being pushed down to force the contact. In terms of physics , Newtons 1st law is 'Action and reaction are equal and opposite ' so you push your hand down to counteract his head up he will put his head up more. Keep the elbow in line with the bit , thus maintaining connection not increasing or decreasing the contact. and think of the hand holding a tray of drinks[ mines full of gin and tonic!] now imagine keeping all the glasses on the tray whilst doing trot , sitting or rising, not only that but riding corners ,turns ,circles and you will have the idea of a still balanced hand. It is still relative to the horses mouth and the bit and requires a clear understanding of the balance of the rider . co-ordiation of the leg and use of a 'centered' body and seat. All this then gives the horse the confidence to accept the hand and release itself through his back to the hand.
Once this security of connection is created the horse will become more focused on that forward connection thus letting go in the back and having confidence to go where you the rider directs.
This does also relate the same way to what you are saying Sam. Really good riders very rarely see the need to have anything other than the most simple of bits. Becoming strong and 'on the hand is where the horse bears onto the contact expecting you to provide the balance like a walking stick rather than him taking more weight onto the hind leg and developing his self carriage. For jumping this means that the horse will be able to jump by containing the weight like a spring on the hind leg be able to come up and open the shoulders thus giving a freedom in the back and a bascule over the fence rather than using the hand and speed to throw themselves over the fence. The more it happens like that the more they run against the hand and hey presto the stronger the bit gets! and so starts that negative spiral and a loss of confidence.
So that really is a VERY basic explanation of both aspects of tightness in the neck and back and how it may manifest itself in our horses on a daily basis .Its some thing i work on day in day out. See connection like breathing.. it neccessary and vital!!!

 

[Llwyncwn]

Ok Partoow. I get so inspired by your posts that I want to go straight into the school and practise

I suggest that for the good of the horse you must start a daily post on here to inspire us all, freeby of course

 

[siennamum]

I think you'll have to start holding clinics Partoow.
I'm interested that you talk of riding from the inside leg to the outside hand, we've had a few posts on here where that concept has been roundly dismissed.
My mare gets tight in her back and can always improve - however well we're going and highly we score. I think it#s due to me having had a haphazard approach to her early education but also in part due to conformation. I have to spiral in and out quietly until she starts to step through, first with one hind leg then the other, I also often work (rightly or wrongly) on softening her neck, which seems to soften her behind the saddle as well.

 

[Partoow]

ive said it before and i,ll say it again i do actually enjoy helping you guys out. It is good to understand why and what people have problems with. It is all too easy to sit in an 'ivory tower' and forget that grass root riders need help in such a way. My aim being that you too can get that feeling of mental and physical connectionwith the horse that i find so amazing. Glad you find it interesting and glad if it helps!
Siennamum you are right when you say you can always improve and conformation does have a huge bearing on what and how a horse will find aspects of schooling development difficult. As for the inside leg to the out side rein being roundly dismissed i find that amazing as in all my time on the continent and over here i've only ever used this system and have only ever heard of this system being truely successful and that goes right back to the likes of Le Guernier et al. I do think people tend to over load the inside seat bone and this is one area that my own riding has undergone refinement in the past few years, but then the development of our horses and our own riding is a life journey and one that i've always said that the day i dont know more today than i did yesterday then its the day i stop and do something else.!!!
One other point you make is on the loosening of the neck this is true but be sure that you are not allowing the neck to 'break' when what you really need is submission at the poll and that really is another whole new post!!!!!
Thank you for enjoying my ramblings i do actually love teaching and i do do it a lot and thankfully have a lot of fab students that i learn from too!!
Until the next time.........good luck!!

 

[cosmo_sam]

I find the whole inside leg outside rein debate very interesting

I know that there are times I very obviously use this, and and as I've got more experienced can actually feel the mysterious connection that always seemed so mystical!

I think my problem with many instructors though, is that they use this instruction with novice riders. In my experience it often teaches nothing but tension and confusion when barked at so soon.

There are clearly priorities/stages of learning with novices that should be focused on and IMO learning to ride forward, freely and learning the significance of taking aids OFF to reward a horse for responding correctly should come much earlier in the training than aiming to ride inside leg to outside rein.

It's a bit like how instructors used to insist I try to see a stride jumping, that caused me nothing but confusion and tension, and the result was I hated jumping and always felt clueless.

Only when I was taught to establish a good rhythm and to maintain and focus on that, did I actually begin to enjoy jumping and actually get a feel for it.

Thanks for your explanations Partoow! I've copied and saved them to my PC so they don't get lost!!!