Time dilation and contraction

Ambers Echo

Ambers Echo

Still wittering on
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13 October 2017
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Weird things happen on a horse..... Just seen the Arena Eventing results. My rider was the fastest round the course out of a class of over 90! 3 others where on the same time but none were faster. She got 10 too fast penalties. And yet she felt in total control.

I on the other hand was slow and got 16 too slow penalties but felt like we were going at 100mph! I was 20 seconds slower than my rider. Some of that was because I actually stopped completely once as we were headed at speed in the wrong direction (!) But we were even too slow in the XC phase which she jumped well round. I cannot fathom how to go 20 seconds FASTER and maintain control!

Any tips for getting used to speed? Obviously practicing changes of gear but when she is going fast now I am clearly doing something wrong as I can't steer her at speed so we overrun fences and are forced to take really wide lines. I feel like there is a piece missing of the jigsaw - I am just not getting what better riders are doing to be able to steer at speed. Is it balance, rhythm, looking ahead, body position, core strength, stronger aids (and which ones) etc. I don't mind not yet being able to do it, but I don't even know what I don't know.

I also think getting a better rider to ride is not helpful to me! She was far too switched on when I rode her after going round at pace the day before. So back to just me riding her I think.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Is it balance, rhythm, looking ahead, body position, core strength, stronger aids (and which ones) etc. I don't mind not yet being able to do it, but I don't even know what I don't know.
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It’s all of those, possibly with the exception of strong aids (depends what you mean by that). It’s also about acclimatising to speed and becoming comfortable.

But this all goes back to what was discussed about fittening/cantering/training plans/aims/perception of control that was on a thread a while back
 
Now that’s a bonkers title AE and I’m still not sure what it means haha. Plus I have no clue as to the answer. Why am I posting, you ask yourself (valid question), but it’s only to confess that, despite my horse being a bit of a Diesel engine at times, my brain often doesn’t work quickly enough and I don’t keep up! For me it’s nerves, tension, inexperience that means I’m a bit slow on the uptake. Maybe age and being a porker too haha. None of which I’d attribute to you, so I suspect your thoughts in your post are probably more accurate 😁
 
I would say ride a bit shorter and you will feel more in control. I know you have said before you have hacking issues but it might be time to start doing a bit which I find helps. I have also been to gallops so you know exactly how far you are going and time yourself. I'm a bit of a speed freak so always happy with speed, for others it takes practice!
 
It's all about control! I always get time pens in my first few runs of the season as my horse is super keen and strong and I have to take time to set him up more for the fences and take wider lines. Once he chills out a bit I can just let him run and jump so can canter round a xc course without having to take much of a pull. When you're in total control, the pace at BE90 is fairly leisurely!

If you watch Chris Burton's Badminton rounds, he didn't look like he was going like the clappers but he took all the tight lines and didn't waste a second anywhere, plus his horses didn't need too much setting up and the ride was just super smooth.

Stopping and changing direction will have wasted a lot of time. Sounds like you need to work on your steering and getting her to listen to you. My instructor uses a fab exercise where he gets me jumping on a 4 loop serpentine with a small jump on the C/L. Really gets the horse listening to you, bending through the body, plus they can't rush.
 
From my extensive experience (of sitting on my arse, watching xc and listening to commentary), I wonder if there's an element of going fast, then having to set up hugely for fences, which slows you down more than if you were going slower but more in control to start with. Every pull you take going into a fence hits your time.

I'm sure there's an element of being confident going faster and being prepared for the most economical turns etc too. I love watching Andrew Nicholson for his thighs economic lines and speed-without-insanity xc.
 
Thanks everyone. I guess like everything it is practice and experience!! But some useful tips to think about as I am being carted round Somerford....
 
Ambers Echo said:
Thanks everyone. I guess like everything it is practice and experience!! But some useful tips to think about as I am being carted round Somerford....
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No it’s about training! Both training you and the horse.

You can have a lot of experience practicing stuff (getting carted etc), but it isn’t going to get better until you are practicing the right stuff 😉
 
ihatework said:
No it’s about training! Both training you and the horse.

You can have a lot of experience practicing stuff (getting carted etc), but it isn’t going to get better until you are practicing the right stuff 😉
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Haha yes that is very true. My daughter was doing a lot of practicing the wrong shaped half 20m circles yesterday. And my other daughter got very skilled at practicing training her pony to drag her to grass! Point taken! I will focus on CONTROL tomorrow and accept time pens are inevitable.
 
Doesn't it all go back to rhythm, so if you've got a good rhythm you can jump out of your stride and take the most economical turns and lines with ease and no need for constant gear changes? So smoothness rather than speed?
 
You say she 'carts' you, what is she like if you drop your hands and let her go? I think some of the more keen types make the rider keep the handbrake on most of the time for fear of being out of control completely but often if you let them run, not stupidly fast but allow rather than hold, in places where there are no fences as you land after a jump then check on the approach and mean it they do learn to come back more easily because you are not constantly saying steady.
As ihw has just said it is down to training and part of good xc training is to be able to allow them to flow on but be listening enough to come back when asked, ideally about 6 strides before each fence so the rhythm is not really broken and they are not fighting constantly.
One of my liveries had a xc lesson with AN many years ago because she wanted to get her times improved, he allowed her to set up to almost a SJ canter coming into each fence but she was not allowed to check on landing he insisted, strongly, that she landed and went forward, the theory being she could make up 2-3 secs per fence but still feel safe on the approach, her mare went novice with a pro comfortably inside the time but generally got around 30 secs over with her owner.
 
I used to get this with Basil. It was actually because he was so strong and whizzy I was getting too slow penalties as kept having to interrupt rhythm XC to get him back.

Moving up to 90 was solution as he respected things a little more.
 
All good tips so far!

I've found having some video to look through is very helpful. I felt like I was going fast until I saw a vid and it was only just a normal looking canter! I had someone video me doing various speeds and then I could get a 'feel' for the different tempos versus how it looked.

silly really since I used to be a racehorse work rider but that was many moons ago and felt very different to riding my connie!
 
That's really interesting. Thanks. When I say 'carted me' - there were 2 places on the course I felt I lost control. The first was at number 3 - a fully up to height jump into space on the brow of a hill. Amber over-jumped and as we were heading downhill I dd not make the turn to 4 but had to go a wibbly way round. I know that was an issue with my balance. I was out of balance on landing and in the 2 strides it took me to regain it we had gone too far.

The 2nd was 7 - 8 in a straight line heading to the collecting ring which you can see on the video. She took hold and acceerated and I ended up sitting back, looking over the fences and leaving her to it. We jumped them at what felt to me like XC speed. And on landing I could not turn her to the next fence but went straight on and stopped her completely before turning and setting off again. I don't know why I could not turn her. May be I just froze! And 'left her to it' rather too much. It's hard to remember - it was a bit of a blur.

In the XC phase there was a table then a fairly tight turn to a skinny then 2 strides to another skinny. That line was causing nightmares to loads of people all day and because I was so focused on that line she rode it well. In retrospect I think my focus and determination to ride the line and not the fence helped her. If I can get her back after a big table and steer for a set of skinnies then I should have been able to do that for much easier turns elsewhere. So I think my problem was thinking ahead quickly enough to be effective.
 
My comments would apply more to actual xc than area stuff which is totally different really and much more difficult to get into a rhythm on something keen, your pro rider would have much faster reactions, more confidence and experience than you and having allowed her to go on the day before would have a bearing on how she went for you.
 
Wheels said:
All good tips so far!

I've found having some video to look through is very helpful. I felt like I was going fast until I saw a vid and it was only just a normal looking canter! I had someone video me doing various speeds and then I could get a 'feel' for the different tempos versus how it looked.

silly really since I used to be a racehorse work rider but that was many moons ago and felt very different to riding my connie!
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I find that too. Felt like I was going a million miles but on video just looked nice and forward in a controlled way!
 
As you (and others) have said it's "balance, rhythm, looking ahead, body position and core strength"
Some of the pros make it look so easy because they are able to make small corrections well away from the jumps and keep coming in a rhythm.
When I looked at the video there were some of the XC jumps where Amber towed you in resulting in being too close at take off causing a more up and down jump which upsets rhythm and actually takes longer (it's also not as comfortable for the rider). If I remember rightly the last jump came on a much better stride and covered more distance.
It's also about knowing your horse - some like to stand-off (just don't let them do it too much or too often) whilst others don't and will chip a stride in. Getting as close to the perfect spot for the horse & fence will also help.
FWIW I actually think that you are doing a great job and improving - plus keen to learn.
 
One exercise I've done is to try to count elapsed seconds, rather than strides, and then vary the speed (either slow down or speed up the rhythm of the strides, or lengthen or shorten the strides) and still try to count elapsed seconds, while riding from one side to the other of the arena or doing a lap of the arena. Then compare my count with that of a stopwatch (preferably held by somebody else), to see what the difference is.
 
Michen said:
I find that too. Felt like I was going a million miles but on video just looked nice and forward in a controlled way!
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Haha - my videos don't look nearly as fast as they feel. But actually it is not the sheer speed that's the problem it is the fact that she won't come bacl to me or respond to my efforts to half halt/re-balance!
 
I think that turning wide is often caused by the rider using the inside rein to turn the head to turn, rather than thinking of turning the shoulders using both reins and your body. Once the outside shoulder has pointed outwards then it is lost.

I also agree with former poster about moving away from the fence. 20 fences and you could save 20 seconds of you are landing steeply and then not quick away back into rhythm.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Haha - my videos don't look nearly as fast as they feel. But actually it is not the sheer speed that's the problem it is the fact that she won't come bacl to me or respond to my efforts to half halt/re-balance!
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Then this is what you need to practise lots of!

Can you easily do canter to walk and canter to halt transitions during your schooling sessions? This is a good exercise to improve half halts, get the transitions so good that you can interchange them with half halts so that your horse never knows which you are going to do. You need to feel that she is about to come back to walk and then ask her to go forward again.

Then when you go jump training use this in between fences, some you can come right back to halt, some walk and some just a half halt.

When it is very good then go from a much faster canter back to a steadier canter, then progressively back to walk or halt and go again. If it's not good then go back to the previous exercise. Once it's going well then you can progressively increase the speed of the faster canter working on and back in canter but sometimes also coming back to walk so she's never quite aware what you will ask for.
 
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