Time for Change on Yards

[ANNNASH]

With the weather in mind and after reading messages where owners are saying their horses are in all day (and night) at the moment, isnt it time we changed our priorities on yards. Its all well and good having all weather surfaces, indoor schools, horse walkers, wash boxes etc etc., but isnt it more important that horses have turn out?

On our yard the horses are guaranteed turn out 24/7, 365 days a year because the yard is never so overstocked that we are short of grazing. They only moved from the late summer/autumn grazing to the winter grazing on 2nd December 2009.

Who's got a view on this? What's better, a happy relaxed horse who can come in if you want and go out to burn up his excess energy with his friends, or a fab clean horse who is so wound up at being in all the time that you cant ride him in that lovely indoor school anyway ?

 

[Geraldine]

Bob is staying in today (and was in yesterday), nothing to do with shortage of turnout. More to do with me not wanting to risk a broken leg getting him to the field.

We have huge stables though, plenty of room for him to mooch about in.

 

[quirky]

Mine has stayed in (on some days) for safety reasons, not because of over stocking or lack of grazing.

Must say, I've seen many a miserable looking horse stood forlornly at the field gate.

I know where I'd rather have mine.

 

[little_flea]

Heeeere we go again...

 

[chestnut cob]

You're assuming here that just because a yard has good facilities means people don't worry about turnout. The yard I'm on has great facilities (huge arena, grass gallops, walker, wash box, etc etc) and great turn out as well. We never run out of grazing in summer and the horses are turned out on every day bar absolutely torrential rain because they just stand at the gate waiting to come in.

However, because it's such a nice yard, when it was built, they decided to make all of the paths and driveways concrete. Great when we have a normal winter where it just rains constantly because it doesn't get muddy. Not so great when we have these sorts of temperatures because the wet concrete turns into ice. So our horses are in not because the YOs and us liveries have placed more importance on nice facilities over turn out, but because the lovely, clean concreted yard is too dangerous to walk across at the moment.

Our yard isn't overstocked. In summer there are always paddocks empty because the horses can't get through the grass quickly enough. We don't have a starvation paddock really; the grass is never eaten down! Under normal circumstances I would always have my horse turned out. He won't dissolve in the rain or be blown away when it's windy, however he could well slip on the ice (as he did on the way to the walker on Sunday) and hurt himself. I'd rather he stayed in for a few days and was a bit fed up than put him out so he ends up with bruised feet, sprains, or worse because the fields are frozen into ruts, and then I can't use any of our lovely facilities.

 

[MillionDollar]

So all horses that are in stables are loopy?!?!?! Come and ride my own horses, who are in 95% of the time in winter, and prehaps that'll change your mind!

We haven't turned out today, due to safety, not overstocking/lack of grazing. Sorry but I don't want to be jumped on by a 16hh horse because they're excited. I haven't stopped turnout, everyone is welcome to turn their horse out, just as long as they do the turning out/bringing in!

 

[4leggedfurries]

Its not a case of wanting clean horse at all! or that there is a shortage of grass, people have their reasons for keeping them in. My horses are in at the moment as the fields are so frozen solid that the shetland cant walk through all the ruts and the tb can barely stand he finds he so hard going. The only one that isnt bothered is the exmoor, but i cant keep him out on his own, as he doesnt like it and the others would go nuts. I'm not willing to turn my horses out on to ground as hard as concrete to risk breaking their legs by tanking round. They get an hours turnout on the yard in the morning whilst mucking out and again at night and they are more than happy with, they even try to get back in their stables before i've even finished, so thats how happy they are to be in, in this weather.

TBH though seeing as this is your first post on this forum, i reckon your stuck at home from school/work bored stupid so have decided to cause upset and start an argument.

 

[Leadrope]

I moved last summer, from a large yard with indoor school and all facilities and with sufficient turnout but no 'grazing' to basically a stable and field. No school etc but my boy has 24/7 turnout if I want and good grazing with that turnout. That has been more important to me than schooling etc and has meant that in the 3 weeks of snow we've had here, he hasn't had to be kept in.

 

[KatB]

Mine is the same. She isn't being turned out because she is silly on the ice, and I cant risk her legs/my legs/anyone else who is kind enoug to deal with her's legs! She was in yesterday as well and was happy and very content last night and this morning. We have MORE than enough turnout too

 

[zoeshiloh]

Oooo the great turnout debate! I love it!! We have 24/7 year round turnout if we want it. Our YO is very accomodating to our needs. We have gravel drives (pain in the arse when sweeping/picking up feet but Godsend in the snow!). However, if you saw my horse in the morning, you would realise that actually he doesn't want to BE outside. It takes me 10 minutes to get him through the gate in the morning - he keeps looking back at the stables and I know he would rather be in. When he does go into the field, he mooches off for about fifteen minutes, then spends the rest of the day by the gate.

 

[criso]

I think we we have to make a distinction between extreme weather than means horses can't go out ( apparently this cold weather is the worst for 20 years) and a yard that does not have the facilities to offer daily turnout.

I moved at the end of the summer from a yard that did not have adequate turnout to one that does so this is a high priority for me and I chose a yard further away from where I live so my horse could get this.

However today they have made a decision that they cannot turn out in the fields safely so everyone taking a turn in the small paddock to stretch their legs but otherwise will be in.
Last snow we did manage to get them out most days but it is dependent on how safe the entrance to the field is and the tracks leading to the fields.

 

[BentleyBelly]

Each to there own...my fatty welsh d is out 24/7, naked in all weather and is happy as larry. His field mate is a pansy gelderlander rugged up to his eye balls who is also out full time. We have stables but they are happier out so that is where they stay with lots of hay and shelter. Like most things horsey everyone has there own way of doing things and there is not necessarily a right or wrong way.

 

[ISHmad]

Ours are living out 24/7 this winter with adequate rugs, ad lib hay and plenty of shelter so they aren't hooning around as it isn't all new to them.

Were we still in a position where they had to come in at nights, as is the case at most livery yards, then I would be very reluctant to turn them out each day in case they fell over on the ice or hooned around and hurt themselves.

Each owner knows their horse best and will undoubtedly do the best for him or her, whatever any faceless, nameless person on a Forum thinks!

 

[Mithras]

I agree with the OP. I'd be very worried if mine had no turnout at the moment, because I can't ride him. We have no indoor school and the outdoor school is as rutted as the fields. But because he goes out in it regularly he is sure-footed despite being a big warmblood and is fine. He does'nt gallop around, he stands at the gate to watch the stables or walks over to the hay pile. I'd be worried about tieing up, colic, filled legs as well as behavioural problems if I kept him in. I am sure he could stay out 24/7 perfectly happily if he didn't have a new full clip and had a field shelter. We put down manure on the bit between the stables and the field to make it less slippy.

I don't think the current weather is extreme enough to keep them in. Perhaps if it were minus 20 or something, but a few degrees below and a bit of snow - no.

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

My yard is 24/7, 365 days a year if I want. I prefer my mare out for her health but she is preferring to be in at times of late.
I would not want to move to a yard which did not offer 24/7/365 turnout to be honest, it would be top on my list.
My mare is ever so good on the whole, if she wants out she literally gently tells me by nudging the stable door with her lip.
She is in today as she did not want to go out, yesterday morning she just looked longingly back at her stable as I walked her out, the weather was no where near as bad as today, so the odd day in we do. I hope tomorrow is ok and I can turn out as I do not like two days in a row but its not looking good

 

[burtondog]

We have plenty of turn out and most years our horses and been out almost everyday but these conditions are pretty extreme.

My horse's feed's been cut and he's been turned out any day the ground has thawed but he seems content enough in his stable with extra hay on the days he's stuck in.

 

[KatB]

There are no yards around us that offer 24/7 turnout all year, so if that was a specification, I wouldn't be able to have a horse.

My horse has actually been a lot more contented and happy in her stable the last 24 hrs than she has when she has been out, and she is very quick to tell me if she doesnt like something. She is eating a mixture of forages, has been having an afternoon nap and is relaxed and happy, She was also more than happy to mooch about quietly last night on the end of the lunge, which wouldn't be the case if she was unhappy at being in!

I agree, in an ideal world horses should be out as much as possible. However, sometimes common sense and dare I say it convenience has to take over.

 

[ANNNASH]

Thanks for the replies and differing opinions. However some of you are jumping the gun slightly.

I never suggested that yards with good facilities did not offer 365 turnout. We have all those facilities AND 24/7 365 turnout. And to the other person, I am NOT bored stupid at home trying to start a fight, I'm actually at work after doing my three horses at 6.00am this morning.

Regarding slippy yards, ours is Highways grade tarmac and the tracks and paths are compacted hardcore. Both are excellent for drainage and therefore do not get icy. Concrete is nice to look at but notoriously slippy - wet or dry. And anyway whether its concrete or tarmac, why hasn't it been gritted or salted? Health and safety issues there for your yard owner, what if you slip and injure yourself, they have a duty of care to you too.

Our fields are not rutted, frozen and dangerous. They do not get into that state as the horses are moved on regularly. And finally, yes our horses are regularly seen standing 'looking forlorn' at the gate - that'll be five minutes before their owners arrive at their regular time.

Thanks to those who made sensible contributions, it was obvious to them that I was seeking a variety of views on yards.

 

[Tickles]

QR
Unlike some of the other lucky posters above my share horse's yard is near a large conurbation where land is expensive and probably /isn't/ really big enough. So, in rubbish weather like this the horses are kept in (ice-free path dug out to limited 'turn out' in indoor school & walker, outdoor arenas mostly usable and some (mostly frozen so careful only) hacking, inc on site) to save the fields. Having said that he is out 24/7 in summer and it is only since the snow they have been in whereas most owners in our area are much worse off.

His digestion is def a bit messed up, he is frustrated and annoyed. Owner and I take him for a roll/buck before riding and hack out as much as poss to minimise issues but really, yes, it would be better if we had enough turnout to sacrifice a few fields.

 

[Rouletterose]

[ QUOTE ]
With the weather in mind and after reading messages where owners are saying their horses are in all day (and night) at the moment, isnt it time we changed our priorities on yards. Its all well and good having all weather surfaces, indoor schools, horse walkers, wash boxes etc etc., but isnt it more important that horses have turn out?

On our yard the horses are guaranteed turn out 24/7, 365 days a year because the yard is never so overstocked that we are short of grazing. They only moved from the late summer/autumn grazing to the winter grazing on 2nd December 2009.

Who's got a view on this? What's better, a happy relaxed horse who can come in if you want and go out to burn up his excess energy with his friends, or a fab clean horse who is so wound up at being in all the time that you cant ride him in that lovely indoor school anyway ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine are always allowed out 24/7 365 days a year they are normally, at this time of year, in at night, ridden first thing and then turned out for the rest of daylight hours. I have individual grazing and plenty of it. The oooooonlyyyyyyyy reason mine have had to stay in for a few days is fields like concrete, solid as a rock, ice covered yards and walkways to the fields, and now loads of snow.....what is the point of your post?????

 

[ANNNASH]

...Oh and I will just add, that amongst the horses living out perfectly happily on our yard are two with COPD, one a 28 year old pony mare and the other is a full thoroughbred ex-steeple chaser just retired. These both moved to us from yards where they all had to live in from October to March.

 

[AmyMay]

My horse stayed in today - nothing to do with lack of turnout our yard instructions. Purely my choice.

 

[4leggedfurries]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies and differing opinions. However some of you are jumping the gun slightly.

I never suggested that yards with good facilities did not offer 365 turnout. We have all those facilities AND 24/7 365 turnout. And to the other person, I am NOT bored stupid at home trying to start a fight, I'm actually at work after doing my three horses at 6.00am this morning.

<font color="blue"> Ok so you may be at work but why post something that could become such a debated topic as your first post? Why not introduce yourself first instead of risking upsetting people?</font>

Regarding slippy yards, ours is Highways grade tarmac and the tracks and paths are compacted hardcore. Both are excellent for drainage and therefore do not get icy. Concrete is nice to look at but notoriously slippy - wet or dry. And anyway whether its concrete or tarmac, why hasn't it been gritted or salted? Health and safety issues there for your yard owner, what if you slip and injure yourself, they have a duty of care to you too.

<font color="blue"> arent you the lucky one to have such a 'perfect' yard. Not everyone is in your position to be able to have this. You think its simple for the YO just to do 'this and that' simply because you pay for the privelage. With regards to grit for icy paths, have YOU tried to get any grit? I cannot find any in a 20 miles radius of where i live and the earliest i've been told 'some' could be in stock in February, all the councils have bought it up. </font>

Our fields are not rutted, frozen and dangerous. They do not get into that state as the horses are moved on regularly. And finally, yes our horses are regularly seen standing 'looking forlorn' at the gate - that'll be five minutes before their owners arrive at their regular time.

<font color="blue"> Again arent you the lucky one...! My fields and i know friends fields are the same, are all thick claggy clay underneath and as soon as you have a drop of rain they turn into bogs. have you considered that its not possible to keep them perfectly flat and rut free in these circumstances? And then when it freezes, well what can you do? And as for horses looking forlorn, well i cant even get my tb through the gates some days because of the ground conditions so to me that tells me he'd rather be in his warm comfy stable just chilling. </font>

Thanks to those who made sensible contributions, it was obvious to them that I was seeking a variety of views on yards.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> I did make a sensible contribution if you read all my post, but obviously you only read the bit you wanted to. But thats your problem </font>

 

[Vicki1986]

i am on my own with the horses at home, my two go out in the afternoon for up to 4 hours for the past few days, its icy, snowy and the ground slippery and hard. I am just relying on them being sensible. Today however i have kept them in as its much worse than yesterday, and at 7am before going to work i deemed it to be dangerous, they are happy with this (have horse/horse contact, grooming, plenty of forage etc) so Im happy as they are. I will try to get them out tomorrow even if just for an hour, as dont want my 3 yr old to burst out when she does come out again. We have a loan pony who lives out with a shelter, she has pottered out into the field and had a sniff, then come back up to stand indoors/on the yard with hay so dont think she was overly impressed by the hard ground.

I think turnout is a low priority on many yards- regardless of the standard of facilities.
I think some YO's are very greedy and will pack as many horses in as possible, resulting in very poor quality grazing as its totally over grazed.
I see alot of pics of horses out in nothing but mud with no grass year after year (regardless of adverse weather) - and people say its how the time of year is, but others have fields full of grass...

Taking good care of the grazing i have is a top priority for me, if it means restricting my horses turnout to 4 hours instead of 8 in winter then so be it. I dont want my horses to be standing knee deep in mud, kicking off in the gateway to come in etc.
This is far more important to me than having an fancy facilites, and if i was looking at a livery yard again i would look very carefully at their field &amp; field management.

 

[MontyandZoom]

I don't have any stables so mine are stuck out whatever the weather!!!!

To be honest, mine haven't broken a leg being out, but then again i don't have to walk across an icy yard.

This is a hotly debated topic but i don't think ANY horse should be in 24/7 by choice (I accept this is my opinion) but then again this isn't really by choice at the moment. It's better to have a fed-up stabled horse for a few days then a dead horse with a broken leg (and possibly owner with a broken leg too!).

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

call me selfish but.....i have the horse to compete....if i couldnt compete i wouldnt have him......if i didnt have a yard with decent facilities i couldnt compete.....so if it came down to it, id go for a yard with excellent facilities and less turnout.
IMHO a hard working competition horse doesnt need 24/7 tunrout anyway, no doubt some do, but most dont.

i wouldnt ever go to a yard with NO turnout, but if there was an excellent school so i could ride all year round, and he could go out for 2/3 hours a day, we would both be fine.

 

[JessPickle]

my yard doesn't even have enough stables to keep everything in, they wouldn't anyway think there is probably 5/6 horses out of 40 in today. That includes my boy because he isn't allowed out after cutting his face open a week and a half ago and my friends pony who is lame.

 

[perryhillbay]

It's not that people aren't making sensible contributions, they are just not agreeing with you.

I wouldn't say that people are jumping the gun either. You are being quite forceful in your opinions which tends to get people's back up. Everyone thinks that their way of doing things with horses is the right way, that is WHY they do it that way, but then again, no two horses are the same and as long as it is not a welfare issue then I see no reason for other people to accuse others of doing it wrong.

For the record, my horse is on a yard that allows 24/7 turnout in summer and daily turnout in winter, and fields are rotated. Sadly there is not a lot of land for turnout, so if it has been exceptionally wet, the YO may ask us to keep in for a day or two to allow some of the water to drain away and preserve the fields - not a request that I consider to be unreasonable.

In an ideal world, I think horses should be out every day, to run around, graze and generally get some fresh air into their lungs, however, given the current weather, my mare is not out for few reasons:
1) Regardless of attempts at gritting or not, the yard area is think with ice and then a layer of snow on top, which is simply too dangerous to walk your horse out on, unless you want to risk yourself or them.
2) I love my horse and do not want to see her ending up having to be shot because she has bust a leg due to me insisting that she goes out for a few hours and her slipping on the ice beneath the snow when having a play or even trying to get up from rolling.
3) The snow balls up in her feet and she ends up in very uncomfortable looking ice slilts, at some very bizarre angles - I don't want to knacker her joints and tendons.
4) The main reason that mine is in at the moment though, is because she doesn't WANT to be out. On the odd occassion when I have put her out for an hour, she has muched the hay i've given her and then stood by the gate, calling and calling to be bought in, and I can see her from my stable and she can't see me to even know if i'm still there or not, but she calls regardless, hoping. Surely doing the best by your horse means doing what they want. My horse wants to be in stuffing her face with hay, so that's exactly where she is and where she is staying until all this ice and snow buggers off.

 

[royal]

I've not read through all of this however, following prolonged enforced (by YO, who was overstocked) stabling, I now have a show horse who suffers from azortoria and had a very serious initial attack bought on enforced 24/7 stabling (vet confirmed this bought it on - she was being strictly managed ie: getting no hard feed etc etc). Now you could possibly say that there may be underlying reasons why some horses get it and some don't (most horses I know of with it had it initially bought on by over-stabling), however, reasons or not, it was the stabling that bought it on.

I know this doesn't apply to all horses and is just my experience which I just wanted to share, but I know that it had a very detrimental effect to my horses health (she had previously been fit, well and never needed a vet for anything other than vaccs etc).
Obviously we moved yards (about 6 mnths ago) to a place that has all year round turnout and she hasn't (touch wood!) had another attack yet.

I think for those whose horses are not mentally or health wise affected by stabling, it is totally horse owners choice taking into account safety of ground etc. There is one horse on our yard who HATES being out in winter and will just stand by the gate constantly and shout!
However, if it is taken out of the owners choice ie: YO's enforcing it, it may not always be the best choice for some horses.

 

[KingCharles]

I think that generally there is a lack of understanding when it comes to a horses needs. There is more to turnign out than it just being a means for the horse to eat/stretch its legs. Horses also enjoy interacting with each other, mutural grooming, playing. I think this also have to be taken into consideration as well. I see no point taking a horse out to the all year round grazing in this heavy snow on its own for an hour wrapped up in cotton wool, where they are just going to stand there by a gate miserable due to lack of grass and companionship.
Most horses want to be in the field when there is grass and companionship. If there 2 are not met many will stand by the gate after a mooch round. This dosnt mean that they woudl rather be in, it just means that as the stable always has food, and the field dosnt then logically they will want to come in and eat. Many horses are mismanaged, and stabled in an isoclated area with no means of being able to see there friends. During winter turnout , many horses are split up from the larger groups they are used to being out with and have to make do with a smaller area generally, on there own or with one other horse that may not be there ussual friend when placed in the usual herd during the summer grazing. This coupled with there being nothing in the grass, horses genrally spend there time lookign bored.stressed and chunring the ground up.

We have winter turnout and we have summer turnout. The horses live in large one sex groups from may to november, then from late november to late april. we have winter turn out. This is to rest the fields for the summer grazing. we have good faccilities here, and turnout if the owners wish to use it.

i offer my horse a varied routeen over winter. As it is he loves hsi stable, becasue he has adlib hayledge, can touch noses with his friend and feels safe in his stable. I let him decide what he want to an extent by takign the time to wwatch him and get to know him. When the grass starst top loose its nutritional value he was starting to want to come in earlier, as where a few other of the older horses. they wanted to come in and rest or feed and be warm. Some days he wanted to stay out later and on those days that he was not by the gate i let him stay out longer. he wanted to come into his stable over night, to rest and eat. Now that the fields are covered in snow and there is no grass, he isnt keen on going ou tin the field as the going is poor and even out with his friends he cant play with them liek he coudl if the goign was better. So i offer him daily tunrout in the snow but also sessions in the indoor naked with his friend, and he loves it. they play, run round, roll, have a good scratch and groom each other. This gives him a chance to get all the layers off and enjoy the freedom. he is also ridden most days and if not ridden is either lunged or free schooled.

he is happy and healthy and perky.
If the snow was so bad that goign ou tinto the field that it was a danger (as of yet despite 30cm at least it hasnt been ), he woudl still have the sessions with his mates in the indoor and its a joy to watch. You can see he enjoys both the turnout and the freeplay but if you look at photos of him you can see that given the choce he does appear to prefer the chance to fun loos ein the indoor with his mates with out the rugs and the chance to just be a horse!

For those that dont turn out /offer time out of the stable each day and choose to ride in stead. Remeber that you are also depriving your horse or time to just be a horse and to enjoy contact with friends. this has to be taken in to consideration surely. I think we put to many human emotions into the mouths of our horses, and treat them the way we sometime woudl prefer. Horses do need to be able to interact with each other, as well as given the chance to exercise.

we have peopel on the yard that compete to a very high level and they still offer there horses turnout and a chance to play, with there ussual mates, booted up of course

There horses are very happy and the results from the competitions speak for them selfs, nappy horses that get the chance and choice to be horses, but also love there job!