Time for Change on Yards

[jaypeebee]

I think for many people it isnt that there is snow on the ground in the fields, it is the problem of getting the horses to the fields. Horses who are out 24/7 are fine in their fields because as the ground warms and freezes, paths are made and less rutting occurs. For those whose horses have been out on the mild days or even wet slushy days where the ground is softer then the fields inevitably can get rutty. Once these ruts freeze it makes the fields rather knobbly and although its doubtful any horse would be that stupid to hooley around when its footings are not good, accidents can happen and it might be something as simple as putting its foot down and twisting the leg which could set the horse back a little. I think it is horses for courses and everyone makes their own mind up as to what works for them and their horses. Mine are out and go out every day because I do make sure walkways are cleared and ice is gritted but others may not be able to do so, or maybe they just cant be bothered doing it. Either way it is up to them.

 

[Gooby]

My yard has turnout everyday and its our choice to use it or not. Monday was icy so I didn't turnout and risk broken legs, yesterday I couldn't get to the yard because of the snow so YO fed and watered him and today I managed to turnout while I did my jobs then brought him back in. He is happy in the stable as long ad there is plenty to munch on and this morning when he was turned out he just wandered over to a pile of hay and stayed there til I went back to get him 2 hours later. The amount of turnout he gets makes no difference when I come to ride him, he could have been out for a week and he would be exactly the same ridden as if he had been in.

I don't like to see horses stabled indefinatly for no good reason. As long as the horses are happy and healthy.

 

[KingCharles]

We grit pathways and we also have lovely concrete! the YO makes sure that paths and gateways are clear so that horses are not in becasue they cant get out.
Horses that are out all the time 24/7 with there mates with hay in the field no , no different.


Most horses that are not couped in for days will be senerble enought to pick there way trhough the un even going, and wont cause injury. the problem is the longer a horse is couped up with nothing, the more likely they are to explode when they are taken out and this is dangerous as they can slip and injure them selfs.

 

[ANNNASH]

In reply to 4leggedfurries, you have again assumed incorrectly.

Regarding insisting that the yard owner does 'this and that' - I AM the yard owner so maintaining ice free yards and walkways IS my responsibility and IS possible. Grit and salt is available from builders merchants and agricultural suppliers and we have no trouble obtaining it. I consider it my duty to provide a safe environment for horses and clients.

It is also my responsibility and of course in my interests to manage the pasture accordingly.

If some yard owners thought more of their clients and less of the bank balance the world would be a better place for equines and humans. As I said, I was simply canvassing opinions.

 

[KingCharles]

I feel oblijed to show photos of my horse both in the field and out in the indoor. You can see he enjoys both, but seems to prefer the chance to play with his mate naked in the indoor, on good going. When put in the indoor even with a little hay none of the horses eat the hay thye woudl rather play. when put in the filed with hay they may have a nibble but spend most of the time just stood there.

In the field!

in the school!

 

[quirky]

[ QUOTE ]

Regarding insisting that the yard owner does 'this and that' - I AM the yard owner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thank the Lord for small mercies

 

[CrazyMare]

Mine are in, even if they were allowed out today they wouldn't be.

I work until 5pm and don't get home til 6pm. If I turned them out, my old girl would have been pacing the fences, getting faster and faster from 2pm. Instead, both girls stayed in (my 2 year old escapes when out without the other), had a roll and leg stretch in the arena and I will go ride/feed later.

 

[Janette]

These are freak weather conditions, and 99.9% of the time the conditions at my yard are brilliant. 365 turnout, nice people, big boxes yada yada yada.......
Those are my priorities when looking for a yard.
If this type of weather were more frequent, then yes, yards would be set up slightly differently to cope with this weather. But it isn't - so they aren't.

 

[Daffers]

Quote "Regarding slippy yards, ours is Highways grade tarmac and the tracks and paths are compacted hardcore. Both are excellent for drainage and therefore do not get icy. Concrete is nice to look at but notoriously slippy - wet or dry. And anyway whether its concrete or tarmac, why hasn't it been gritted or salted? Health and safety issues there for your yard owner, what if you slip and injure yourself, they have a duty of care to you too.

arent you the lucky one to have such a 'perfect' yard. Not everyone is in your position to be able to have this. You think its simple for the YO just to do 'this and that' simply because you pay for the privelage. With regards to grit for icy paths, have YOU tried to get any grit? I cannot find any in a 20 miles radius of where i live and the earliest i've been told 'some' could be in stock in February, all the councils have bought it up.

Our fields are not rutted, frozen and dangerous. They do not get into that state as the horses are moved on regularly. And finally, yes our horses are regularly seen standing 'looking forlorn' at the gate - that'll be five minutes before their owners arrive at their regular time.

Again arent you the lucky one...! My fields and i know friends fields are the same, are all thick claggy clay underneath and as soon as you have a drop of rain they turn into bogs. have you considered that its not possible to keep them perfectly flat and rut free in these circumstances? And then when it freezes, well what can you do? And as for horses looking forlorn, well i cant even get my tb through the gates some days because of the ground conditions so to me that tells me he'd rather be in his warm comfy stable just chilling. " Quote


4LF Sorry but i think your answers sum up exactly my position too.
Wish we could put horses in the field everyday, not do able when they are on a farm and the sun never gets round to where the stables or track to the field is, which is like a sheet of glass and field rock solid. We only have a smal field that has to make do for the whole year. It is rock solid in the gateway, and i dont intend to break my neck or injury the horse just for a sake of a few hours. We cant ride in these conditions so feed is cut back. Our horses would much prefer to stay in when the weather is this crap.
So please dont start spurting about duties of care,how fantastic your yard is and blah blah blah.. when alot of us are hard pushed to be able to do anything with our horses at the moment.

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]


On our yard the horses are guaranteed turn out 24/7, 365 days a year because the yard is never so overstocked that we are short of grazing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Youve hit the nail on the head there. If the stocking density is high then land gets damaged. Owners then moan that the land gets poached. But if there were less horses per acre its not usually a problem. Most yards have far too many horses for the land, hence horses have to stay in.

The amount of posts i read where horses cant do this, cant do that it is really ridiculous. For example I have heard many times that no strip grazing/electric fencing is allowed so laminitis risk horses have to be shut in and have an hour out if they are lucky.

I think so many yard rules are very detrimental to the horses mental and physical health but unfortunately some owners have limited choice.

 

[fingers_crossed]

My horse is on box rest for veterinary reasons, so i'm not really in on this discussion other than to say, even if enough grit was available (bearing in mind there is not enough here to even grit minor roads) once grit/salt is laid down the owner is liable for any accidents even if they are unavoidable. If they do nothing they are not strictly liable, therefore unfortunately such are the times...

 

[KingCharles]

cat litter is said to be good if you cant get any grit

 

[HollyWoozle]

My horses are out all year round, whatever the weather, and we have never had any accidents or injuries because of it. I think it's right that people do what they think is best for their own horse (within reason, of course) but personally, I'm on the side that would always prefer to offer plenty of turnout when possible. Then again, perhaps this is just because of what I'm used to and my own situation.

We have stables open as field shelters and the horses are rarely in there. The ground in front of them is the most rutted and frozen part of the land and the horses just choose not to walk over that bit (they could walk around it to get indoors if they wanted). In previous years when we have locked them in due to concerns about the weather, they throw total strops and kick the doors in protest.

I really like what KingCharles has said but I do think it's up for each horse owner to decide what is best for their own animal, as long as they are healthy and happy.

 

[mrdarcy]

I also really like King Charles post. There is so much more to turning a horse out than just giving it chance to let off steam or stretch it's legs. If horses are out 24/7 they don't go mental when they do get turned out so injury, whatever the ground conditions, isn't an issue.

Horses already compromise so much. Riding and competing is totally against their natural instincts. But then we also restrict their time off too. Would you keep a dog in a small kennel 23 hours a day? Do you agree with the way battery or broiler chickens are kept? Yet if you compare the space an average horse has in it's stable with the space a battery chicken has it's not that much different (and yes I know some people on here will post they have massive stables but most livery yards have max 12x12 boxes which are really too small for anything bigger than a pony.)

On top of that we prevent them from interacting with other horses - even if they do get turned out how many are on individual turnout and never get to groom, play or even touch another horse? Horses have a complex social structure and love to play and fight and groom and just doze together. Denying them the ability to take part in instinctive behaviour causes them stress. Some react by developing stable vices, others behavourial problems, some retreat into themselves, others will appear perfectly happy but would they not be happier if allowed to be a horse for the majority of their day, as opposed to a few hours if they're lucky?

I used to be a very traditional horse keeper - and told myself that my horse was happy to be in at night and that zero turnout in winter was fine - it must have been because he was still fine to ride and handle. But last winter I had no choice but to turn them out 24/7 and the difference in their health and general countenance was marked - they were much happier, healthier and nicer horses to be around.

So I absolutely agree with the OP - it's about time we all questioned what we were asking of our horses. If we expect them to compete for us, do so many things they would not do by free choice surely we owe it to them to give them as natural a lifestyle as possible when we're not expecting them to serve us. Yes good facilities are important but if the horse has a choice 24/7 turnout would be number one on his list.

Yes I know that many people are on livery yards and stuck with what is provided by the yard owner but by the nature of our lovely capitalist society if more people demand 24/7 turnout then more YO's will provide it. It's time to make a change for the good of our equine partners. The benefits to us are huge too - healthier, mentally happier and more willing horses, lower vets bills, less work for us, fitter horses without endless hours of riding... the list goes on and on. And if your YO declares a shortage of land being a stumbling block then direct them to www.paddockparadise.com. With a Paddock Paradise system in place you can keep more horses on less land and even better the land now freed up in the middle of field can be used to make hay or haylage, which feeds the horses for free all year round. What YO can argue with being able to keep more horses on less acreage and the ability to produce their own forage? It's a win win situation for everyone...

 

[Ziggy_]

My biggest priority when looking for a yard always used to be year round group turnout. I thought I would never settle for anything less.

However, when I finally found a yard that could offer this - there's only one yard like it in my area - I was far from happy. For starters, my mare was picked on in the field and the YO wouldn't move her into another group. She was constantly coming in with minor injuries and I felt a major one was probably inevitable. Over the summer, it was impossible to control their weight because there was just too much grass for the number of horses. Thirdly, I found where my mare was surrounded by other horses 24/7 she was much more dependent on the others and lacked confidence alone. Eventually I left this yard due to the crazy YO driving me insane.

My new yard has daily turnout in the summer but restricts it in the winter. Horses are in overnight all year round and in during the day in bad weather. When they are out they are turned out in pairs only. This routine suits my horse down to the ground - its easy for me to control her food intake and keep her at a healthy weight and she's happy with her one quiet fieldmate. In summer, being stabled overnight means her legs get a rest from standing on concrete-hard ground all day and in winter her legs and feet get a chance to dry out as she's prone to mud fever. On the odd day when it pisses down with rain she's more than happy to stay indoors. I have been turning out the last few days in the snow because my girl is fairly sensible and won't hoon on hard rutted ground, plus I've been unable to ride so felt she should be out but most on the yard are in and thats for their owners to decide.

You can't make sweeping statements and judge other yard owners if they decide to do things differently. The OP seems to be very lucky and have an ideal set up allowing year round turnout, where my yard is one of the ones s/he seems to sneer at, with twice as many stables as acres of turnout. But I can vouch for the fact that my, and all the other horses on the yard are content and well cared for and not the least bit perturbed at being in. So I think we'll carry on as we are, thanks.

 

[brighthair]

our yard has ice and snow, pretty much like everywhere else, but the horses have only had to stay in for one day. Liveries make their own decisions, but the YO horses have stayed in only once due to actual sheet ice where you couldn't get from the house to the yard. To me turnout is relaxing downtime for a horse to behave like a horse

 

[Rouletterose]

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest priority when looking for a yard always used to be year round group turnout. I thought I would never settle for anything less.

However, when I finally found a yard that could offer this - there's only one yard like it in my area - I was far from happy. For starters, my mare was picked on in the field and the YO wouldn't move her into another group. She was constantly coming in with minor injuries and I felt a major one was probably inevitable. Over the summer, it was impossible to control their weight because there was just too much grass for the number of horses. Thirdly, I found where my mare was surrounded by other horses 24/7 she was much more dependent on the others and lacked confidence alone. Eventually I left this yard due to the crazy YO driving me insane.

My new yard has daily turnout in the summer but restricts it in the winter. Horses are in overnight all year round and in during the day in bad weather. When they are out they are turned out in pairs only. This routine suits my horse down to the ground - its easy for me to control her food intake and keep her at a healthy weight and she's happy with her one quiet fieldmate. In summer, being stabled overnight means her legs get a rest from standing on concrete-hard ground all day and in winter her legs and feet get a chance to dry out as she's prone to mud fever. On the odd day when it pisses down with rain she's more than happy to stay indoors. I have been turning out the last few days in the snow because my girl is fairly sensible and won't hoon on hard rutted ground, plus I've been unable to ride so felt she should be out but most on the yard are in and thats for their owners to decide.

You can't make sweeping statements and judge other yard owners if they decide to do things differently. The OP seems to be very lucky and have an ideal set up allowing year round turnout, where my yard is one of the ones s/he seems to sneer at, with twice as many stables as acres of turnout. But I can vouch for the fact that my, and all the other horses on the yard are content and well cared for and not the least bit perturbed at being in. So I think we'll carry on as we are, thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Been there....same as you Ziggy my mares are much happier in individual turnout, they can still groom over the fence if they want to, don't get picked on and would rather be in at night, if I leave my mares stable door open, she doesn't go out of it, she's happy in at night and during the day in summer.

 

[FRESHMAN]

Get bloody real RED 15 If I was to attempt to grit my yard at the moment it would cost over £500 per day. Even the streets in town centres have not been able to keep clear pavements. I dont care what grade tarmac you have in minus zero temperatures you get ice. I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that if you attempted to turn any of my horses out in weather even 50% better than current days they would all finish up being PTS through jumping out on to icy rutted ground. There is no right or wrong way, BUT PLEASE do not judge everyone by your standards. Fully clipped, fit competition horses do not take to living out like a native pony. & Yes, that is a sensible contribution.

 

[jackiesansom]

Hey Hey come on guys rein it in a bit!

Okay so we all have different reasons why we do or don't keep our horses in at the moment but there is no need to get narky or nasty to our new forum friend surely???