Pebble101
Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me how they work out time penalties now for the area competitions. Thank you
Time penalties Riding Club Area Competitions
- Thread starter Pebble101
- Start date
carthorse
Well-Known Member
Got me stumped there, I know if you go too fast you get penalized and if you go too slow you get penalized and you can't wear a watch so goodness knows how you judge.
We have been doing intro and prenovice this season and not got any time penalties in them but at Great Tew we were 18 secs too fast so we are going to go a bit slower at RC qualifier AND PRAY
We have been doing intro and prenovice this season and not got any time penalties in them but at Great Tew we were 18 secs too fast so we are going to go a bit slower at RC qualifier AND PRAY
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Is it not that there is a 30 second time frame you need to get into (ie. round optimum time) to not get any. Then you get .5 for every whatever seconds over or under? I cant remember now you ask!
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Just a warning and it being stupid RC nothing is consistent but the novice is 450mpm so same as intro and PN eventing but the Intermediate is 490mpm so a lot of people picked up time pens. The Open is 520mpm.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
On the XC you get 0.4 penalties for every second too slow. I think you're allowed to be upto 15 secs too fast before you start accruing time penalties, though that might have changed as there was talk of there being no lee-way at all.
I haven't got my rule book yet!
Yes, 490mpm for Intermediate is a hard one to bear. Flat out gallop and cutting all corners and we still can't make the time!
Allowing the 'fastest time round' [a hunter trial course] was withdrawn, as deemed too dangerous, which is why the optimum time/speed was brought in, but now the times are just so fast, they're ridiculous.
On the plus side, I suppose the 'weighting' lies heavily on the XC phase, so it doesn't end up being a dressage competition.
I haven't got my rule book yet!
Yes, 490mpm for Intermediate is a hard one to bear. Flat out gallop and cutting all corners and we still can't make the time!
Allowing the 'fastest time round' [a hunter trial course] was withdrawn, as deemed too dangerous, which is why the optimum time/speed was brought in, but now the times are just so fast, they're ridiculous.
On the plus side, I suppose the 'weighting' lies heavily on the XC phase, so it doesn't end up being a dressage competition.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just a warning and it being stupid RC nothing is consistent but the novice is 450mpm so same as intro and PN eventing but the Intermediate is 490mpm so a lot of people picked up time pens. The Open is 520mpm.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only stupid thing about riding clubs it that they are foolish enough to assume that people competing in area qualifiers would have familiarised themselves with the rules for the competition they are riding in. In fact whoever signs the area entry form is signing in part to confirm 'that the members listed above have read & understood the rules.........'
With regard to time penalties there is no 'window' in the Hunter Trials.......its 0.4 of a penalty for each second or part of over or under the optimum time. Horse trials XC still has the 15 sec window.
Just a warning and it being stupid RC nothing is consistent but the novice is 450mpm so same as intro and PN eventing but the Intermediate is 490mpm so a lot of people picked up time pens. The Open is 520mpm.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only stupid thing about riding clubs it that they are foolish enough to assume that people competing in area qualifiers would have familiarised themselves with the rules for the competition they are riding in. In fact whoever signs the area entry form is signing in part to confirm 'that the members listed above have read & understood the rules.........'
With regard to time penalties there is no 'window' in the Hunter Trials.......its 0.4 of a penalty for each second or part of over or under the optimum time. Horse trials XC still has the 15 sec window.
carthorse
Well-Known Member
Yes ,and the problem is because we all know it is fast and can't wear watches we go as fast as we dare,stupid.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
Because it's supposed to be progressive..........the intermediate is the halfway point between novice & open. It is a competition that was created at the request of the membership, & has proved very popular.....if you have a problem with the speed I suggest you come to the national conference or send your comments in to BRC where they can be discussed in full at the October rules meeting. Alternatively contact your Area Rep (D.B.?) with your concerns.
Pebble101
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
On the XC you get 0.4 penalties for every second too slow. I think you're allowed to be upto 15 secs too fast before you start accruing time penalties, though that might have changed as there was talk of there being no lee-way at all.
Yes, 490mpm for Intermediate is a hard one to bear. Flat out gallop and cutting all corners and we still can't make the time!
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that the time penalties were as you said. However when I questioned my time at the weekend and I said about it being 0.4 penalties for every second, she replied that was years ago when she used to do it. However she didn't tell me what the penalties were.
I also think there has been a rule change so the Open is also 490 (not that it will ever worry me
)
On the XC you get 0.4 penalties for every second too slow. I think you're allowed to be upto 15 secs too fast before you start accruing time penalties, though that might have changed as there was talk of there being no lee-way at all.
Yes, 490mpm for Intermediate is a hard one to bear. Flat out gallop and cutting all corners and we still can't make the time!
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that the time penalties were as you said. However when I questioned my time at the weekend and I said about it being 0.4 penalties for every second, she replied that was years ago when she used to do it. However she didn't tell me what the penalties were.
I also think there has been a rule change so the Open is also 490 (not that it will ever worry me
carthorse
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the speed as my horse does BE novice speed ok but as we have no real way of telling how the time is going we tend to go as fast as is safe.I think it is safer with a stopwatch on as then you can judge the speed better.At Stoneleigh 2 day I was the fastest but still was just over the time as the ground was very wet and it was not safe to go any faster.It just seems especially at hunter trials to be a bit of a lotteryI'd personally like to see a knock down fence or two in the hunter trial.
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
It seems the thing to do is what 'some' competitors did at our area qualifier. Get someone on the ground to tell you whether to speed up or slow down....one child pulled up and strolled towards the finishing line allegedly because he was an experienced rider and just 'knew' he was too fast!!
carthorse
Well-Known Member
I have also seen this a stopwatch would be safer and fairer.I believe they took them away so that people would not go so fast but that is not logical.
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree.
Despite agreeing with zebedee about people knowing the rules before competing, I am also one that thinks that a lot of RC rules make no sense at all.
Despite agreeing with zebedee about people knowing the rules before competing, I am also one that thinks that a lot of RC rules make no sense at all.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
Using QR.
As I said if anyone out there has a problem with any of the BRC rules they have the opportunity to raise the matter at the conference & to write in to BRC for the competitions committee to your points of view.
NB Open Hunter Trial Speed is 490 m/m. Open HORSE trials is 520 m/m.
As I said if anyone out there has a problem with any of the BRC rules they have the opportunity to raise the matter at the conference & to write in to BRC for the competitions committee to your points of view.
NB Open Hunter Trial Speed is 490 m/m. Open HORSE trials is 520 m/m.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
Me too.
And I also think that membership to a Riding Club should include a Rule Book - to come via the BHS/Riding Clubs section when the RC pays the affiliation fee.
And I also think that membership to a Riding Club should include a Rule Book - to come via the BHS/Riding Clubs section when the RC pays the affiliation fee.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Me too.
And I also think that membership to a Riding Club should include a Rule Book - to come via the BHS/Riding Clubs section when the RC pays the affiliation fee.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well each club gets two sent to them, plus the area rep will have one. Your riding club pays the princely sum of £8.00 per person affiliation fee to BRC- (plus of course the insurance fee but that is completely seperate). If you think that every member should have a rule book then that would have to rise considerably.
Me too.
And I also think that membership to a Riding Club should include a Rule Book - to come via the BHS/Riding Clubs section when the RC pays the affiliation fee.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well each club gets two sent to them, plus the area rep will have one. Your riding club pays the princely sum of £8.00 per person affiliation fee to BRC- (plus of course the insurance fee but that is completely seperate). If you think that every member should have a rule book then that would have to rise considerably.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with the speed as my horse does BE novice speed ok but as we have no real way of telling how the time is going we tend to go as fast as is safe.I think it is safer with a stopwatch on as then you can judge the speed better.At Stoneleigh 2 day I was the fastest but still was just over the time as the ground was very wet and it was not safe to go any faster.It just seems especially at hunter trials to be a bit of a lotteryI'd personally like to see a knock down fence or two in the hunter trial.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have also seen this a stopwatch would be safer and fairer.I believe they took them away so that people would not go so fast but that is not logical.
[/ QUOTE ]
But the no watch rule is to keep BRC in line with B.E. who held at massive enquiry re the use of stopwatches at the 'lower'levels & concluded that it was safer for them not to be allowed............BRC will always follow the lead of the governing bodies where a rule is introduced for safety reasons, as they do not have the resources to conduct their own enquiries.
I do however think you're idea of knock down fences is a good one........& I think that you should present this idea - ideally for discussion at the conference.
I have no problem with the speed as my horse does BE novice speed ok but as we have no real way of telling how the time is going we tend to go as fast as is safe.I think it is safer with a stopwatch on as then you can judge the speed better.At Stoneleigh 2 day I was the fastest but still was just over the time as the ground was very wet and it was not safe to go any faster.It just seems especially at hunter trials to be a bit of a lotteryI'd personally like to see a knock down fence or two in the hunter trial.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have also seen this a stopwatch would be safer and fairer.I believe they took them away so that people would not go so fast but that is not logical.
[/ QUOTE ]
But the no watch rule is to keep BRC in line with B.E. who held at massive enquiry re the use of stopwatches at the 'lower'levels & concluded that it was safer for them not to be allowed............BRC will always follow the lead of the governing bodies where a rule is introduced for safety reasons, as they do not have the resources to conduct their own enquiries.
I do however think you're idea of knock down fences is a good one........& I think that you should present this idea - ideally for discussion at the conference.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
I understand that only £8 is paid for the affiliation fees and 2 Rule books are distributed, but the rule book should still be included - so increase the affiliation fee to £13 if you must.
Or advertise the Rule Book for sale in all the Rider mags so at least those people (like me) who don't know all the rules can easily buy one.
Everything else you join, you get told the rules, and it's hard to remember everything when governing bodies do things slightly differently.
Or advertise the Rule Book for sale in all the Rider mags so at least those people (like me) who don't know all the rules can easily buy one.
Everything else you join, you get told the rules, and it's hard to remember everything when governing bodies do things slightly differently.
Pebble101
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If you think that every member should have a rule book then that would have to rise considerably.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think all members need a book, probably only 10% of our members compete and it would be a complete waste of money (and paper). I do however think the rules could be put on the website for people to access.
If you think that every member should have a rule book then that would have to rise considerably.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think all members need a book, probably only 10% of our members compete and it would be a complete waste of money (and paper). I do however think the rules could be put on the website for people to access.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
QR.
I agree that not all members need a rule book. I believe there are plans to make the rules more accessable via the website............but this is unlikely to include this years rule book. In the meantime anyone competing should make an effort to make sure that they know the rules for the competition they're competing in.
Keep a look out in Rider magazine for the details of the conference (normally the same weekendas the Equine Fair so delegates can make a real weekend of it!!!!) & be there to put your points across!!!!
I agree that not all members need a rule book. I believe there are plans to make the rules more accessable via the website............but this is unlikely to include this years rule book. In the meantime anyone competing should make an effort to make sure that they know the rules for the competition they're competing in.
Keep a look out in Rider magazine for the details of the conference (normally the same weekendas the Equine Fair so delegates can make a real weekend of it!!!!) & be there to put your points across!!!!
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
Yes you did say that and I suspect there are a few posters on the forum now who are aware that this is what dissatisfied RC members are supposed to do......how do the rest know?
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes you did say that and I suspect there are a few posters on the forum now who are aware that this is what dissatisfied RC members are supposed to do......how do the rest know?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I would imagine that for most disatisifed RC members te first port of call would be their team Chef d'Equipe, or their club committee. They in turn would take it forward to their area rep/ liaison committee who in turn would advise them to do as I have suggested above. The area rep may even be able to explain things satisfactorily. It is always best to have an initial discussion at area level. You'd be amazed how many people go to an area meeting all guns blazing - only to calm down when the 'bigger' picture has been fully explained to them. Whilst imput from individual members is always welcomed they may prefer to first ascertain that their club / area supports their suggestions.
Yes you did say that and I suspect there are a few posters on the forum now who are aware that this is what dissatisfied RC members are supposed to do......how do the rest know?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I would imagine that for most disatisifed RC members te first port of call would be their team Chef d'Equipe, or their club committee. They in turn would take it forward to their area rep/ liaison committee who in turn would advise them to do as I have suggested above. The area rep may even be able to explain things satisfactorily. It is always best to have an initial discussion at area level. You'd be amazed how many people go to an area meeting all guns blazing - only to calm down when the 'bigger' picture has been fully explained to them. Whilst imput from individual members is always welcomed they may prefer to first ascertain that their club / area supports their suggestions.
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
.............and there is the ideal world and reality. Reality is full of volunteers who see feedback as criticism and are more likely to take the hump than take your issue forward.
In my experience committee members quite like the kudos but not the responsibility and unfortunately very few understand the concept of democracy, representation and their role as an elected member. Its no better at area level.
If nothing else new committee members should be provided with some sort of induction booklet to explain their role within a organisation.
I speak from experience BTW having spent 4 years banging my head on a pub table at every committee meeting and trying to deal with a chair who acted like a school head and treated the rest of the committee like her unruly pupils (she was a teacher so perhaps no surprise there).
I did raise several issues at the committee meeting which were raised by club members but there were all dismissed. I recall a classic line from the mouth of the training officer "why does it have to get so political"......humm!
In my experience committee members quite like the kudos but not the responsibility and unfortunately very few understand the concept of democracy, representation and their role as an elected member. Its no better at area level.
If nothing else new committee members should be provided with some sort of induction booklet to explain their role within a organisation.
I speak from experience BTW having spent 4 years banging my head on a pub table at every committee meeting and trying to deal with a chair who acted like a school head and treated the rest of the committee like her unruly pupils (she was a teacher so perhaps no surprise there).
I did raise several issues at the committee meeting which were raised by club members but there were all dismissed. I recall a classic line from the mouth of the training officer "why does it have to get so political"......humm!
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
I realise exactly what you are saying & I agree that at club level there are far too many people more concerned with the 'kudos' than the responsibility.
Area reps have a duty to represent their area (hence the title!!), and area meetings are the ideal place to air views - especially with regard to rules. They are easily contacted, as members who for whatever reason don't know who their area rep is can find out from head office who will also furnish contact details, (although I would have thought that such information would be provided to members via the clubs themselves).
I do feel that the avenues for expressing disatisfaction for rules etc are easiy accessed even if a particular committee doesn't seem to be interested in taking those view farward - either due to the kind of attitude you have described or maybe because they just don't agree with the issue being raised.
Area reps have a duty to represent their area (hence the title!!), and area meetings are the ideal place to air views - especially with regard to rules. They are easily contacted, as members who for whatever reason don't know who their area rep is can find out from head office who will also furnish contact details, (although I would have thought that such information would be provided to members via the clubs themselves).
I do feel that the avenues for expressing disatisfaction for rules etc are easiy accessed even if a particular committee doesn't seem to be interested in taking those view farward - either due to the kind of attitude you have described or maybe because they just don't agree with the issue being raised.