Time to give in and out shoes on

foxy1 said:
Bicarb is 15ml twice a day :)
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I feed bicarb to one and it has made a lot of difference. I feed one 15 ml scoop of salt per day and started off with 2 x 15 ml VERY heaped scoops of bicarb in feed.
If it makes a difference you should see results in days. Try finding a test area to lead the horse over that is stony/gravelly and test daily.
For this horse I give him a 3rd scoop of bicarb daily but dissolve that in water so he has a choice whether to have it or not. He drinks it.
Bicarb can initially come from Tesco's baking counter (it is bicarbonate of soda not baking powder) . After that if you need it cost effectively it comes from Hyperdrug in 5kg tubs around £16 delivered.
 
paddy555 said:
I feed bicarb to one and it has made a lot of difference. I feed one 15 ml scoop of salt per day and started off with 2 x 15 ml VERY heaped scoops of bicarb in feed.
If it makes a difference you should see results in days. Try finding a test area to lead the horse over that is stony/gravelly and test daily.
For this horse I give him a 3rd scoop of bicarb daily but dissolve that in water so he has a choice whether to have it or not. He drinks it.
Bicarb can initially come from Tesco's baking counter (it is bicarbonate of soda not baking powder) . After that if you need it cost effectively it comes from Hyperdrug in 5kg tubs around £16 delivered.
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That's great thanks for that. I won't be able to get the farrier out for a few days now anyway so will try the salt and bicarb and see how we get on. You never know he might make a miracle recovery and we can go back to normal. Think I am going to have to come up with a cleverer way of disguising the supplements as the way this is going there is going to be more supplement than food!! :):)
 
Can I ask what the bicarb does? I am having this dilemma with my pony at the moment - she has been without shoes for at least 10 years & managed but I feel at the moment she isn't quite as she used to be. I don't know if it's her age starting to show (she's 17) or whether it is time for her to have front shoes on. I have been restricting grass by muzzling and stabling part of the day but with Rosie having sweet-itch she has started rubbing her face raw on the stable - she is much better off out.
 
Rosiefell said:
Can I ask what the bicarb does? .
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you can ask but unfortunately I don't have a definite answer. :D
we have discussed this several times on phoenix and on other sites, is it the additional salt, is it the antacid effect?

it is sodium hydrogen carbonate ie NaHCO3

Two of my horses have hind gut problems and these are the ones I use bicarb for. One didn't really have any foot problems but I added bicarb in and he seemed even better on his feet (barefoot) The other showed noticable improvement this time last year when I added bicarb. I was just playing around wonderng if he had an ulcer problem. I stopped it, he went back a little, started agan and improvement. The improved feet soundness was just a bye product of my wonderng about his gut.

I also dissolved it in water (good 15ml scoop to around half a 3 gall bucket) and took it around my other horses and ponies last year just to see if they wanted any. I ended up going round with about 3 full 3 gallon buckets each night as they demanded it.

f you look at this link, half way down the page, there is a post by specialized about it affectng acidity of the blood. May be worth a read.
http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=help&action=display&thread=126699&page=5

just another thing to try that may help some.
 
Thank you, I shall have a read :). Interestingly I have wondered if my mare may have ulcers as she's always been grumpy but not neccessarily shown all the classic signs. Looks like it may be worth a try for a couple of reasons!
 
I too have wondered about ulcers as my horse is so stressy but shows no other signs at all other than being a complete gannet! I'm definitely going to give bicarb a try, sounds like a good tip! :)
 
StoptheCavalry said:
I too have wondered about ulcers as my horse is so stressy but shows no other signs at all other than being a complete gannet! I'm definitely going to give bicarb a try, sounds like a good tip! :)
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hmm, strange you should say this. This was exactly my horse. He was frantic for food. Not the usual pushy/bargy bad mannered but frantic. He was also extremely stressy but for no reason. The slightest thing set him off yet there was nothing in his life, background, breeding etc to account for it.

He was also not as good Barefoot as he should have been yet his feet were good, WL tight, good concavity, good frogs etc. His feet should have improved with conditioning yet they didn't.

The rest is a long story which went via a stay in horse hospital and a horse with a lot of what seemed to be hind gut problems. It was only when I started sorting out his diet and gradually worked out his current diet that I started to get improvement. I completely revamped his diet. I didn't think his old one was bad but obviously it didn't help him. He has been on his new diet for about 3 months, just about all the stress is gone and he is piggy for food not frantic.

He is also beng ridden out without boots daily and we ride over stony tracks each day which he doesn't appear to notice.
 
Well after being so certain there was no thrush present I am now not certain and have been greeted but a very uncomfortable horse that is lame on his left fore, I am also not sure if his issue is footiness or an actual lameness. One of my fellow liveries has lent me her horse so he's having a night in after having a thorough clean of his feet. Now Im just not sure what's wrong!
 
Paddy555- sorry on my phone so can't quote. That's interesting. Zak's an odd one like you've said he's not rude when food is around but he will eat anything. I never ever have a problem with him eating feed no matter what's in it. He is only stressy when left alone without horse company, he was an orphan foal so not sure if that's related. He has always been great barefoot but then again I have never had shoes in him so have nothing to compare it to.

What is it you feed yours now?
 
StoptheCavalry said:
Paddy555- sorry on my phone so can't quote. That's interesting. Zak's an odd one like you've said he's not rude when food is around but he will eat anything. I never ever have a problem with him eating feed no matter what's in it. He is only stressy when left alone without horse company, he was an orphan foal so not sure if that's related. He has always been great barefoot but then again I have never had shoes in him so have nothing to compare it to.

What is it you feed yours now?
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mne (550kg) is fed
am 1/2 lb soaked copra + 8 oz soaked denge alfalfa pellets plus
salt, bicarb, 200g micronised linseed, metabalance formula 1, yea sac and 15ml scoop limestone flour and magox

pm 1/2lb copra + 8oz soaked dengie alfalfa pellets plus 15 ml scoop charcoal

eve 2 seperate lots of bicarb.

soaked hay and a grass track in the daytime.

What he is not fed is anythng with sugar beet be it molassed or not. I made a great improvement when I got rid of fast fibre. Very noticable that neither of my gut horses cope with sugar beet. I think it is the difficulty in digesting the beet in the hind gut.

Just seen your thrush post. can you give it another week before shoeing? I know you don't like to see him hobblng but it sounds as if something else is going on and t would be a shame to shoe if it could be resolved.

Is there a pic anywhere of the bad foot? perhaps one of the frog?
any possibility of an abscess? is he landing on the toe ie trying to keep weight off the heel or the other way around?
 
Yeh I have completely changed my mind now regarding the footiness. I think he may have been feeling the stones a little but the significant pain in this fore made him appear footy when in actual fact it's something else. He won't be having shoes on until whatever is wrong has been treated if at all. I'm not sure if you had seen my update on the thrush post but after some coaxing with food I did manage to look at his other feet and while I think there may have been a little thrush present this particular foot is not bad enough to warrant the lameness so I am not thinking it's an abscess. I will poultice him in the morning and see what happens.

In one way it's a relief as he may be fine to carry on barefoot just hope it's nothing too bad, there is not heat or swelling so sure it is something in the hoof rather than higher up the leg. He was landing more on his heel and was resting his foot completely when stood still.

That's really interesting with the feed. He is currently on fast fibre, scoop of pro hoof, mag ox, linseed and have introduced bi carb tonight. I did think I had yea sac but turned out to be acid-x which I think I may have had for a good few years so not sure if it'll be good to try or not. Once we have for over what is wrong with his hoof I will look at feeding to help his stomach as I have often wondered about ulcers but as he doesn't really have many symptoms I have always put his behaviour down to just being 'him'
 
I hope you get it sorted.

For info though, ours always had their shoes off for the winter and would flip in and out of shoes without a duff step. If they've got good feet and the shoeing job is a good one then it shouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to them. The only horse we've ever had who went a bit 'footy' when he lost a shoe or when we took his shoes off was the old TB but that was because he had horrendous hoof walls and the shoes would normally take half the hoof wall with them. Once the walls had grown back he was fine too.
 
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