Time to PTS?

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SueandSplendida

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My 22 year old has severe arthritis in three limbs and now a badly damaged tendon. She has been maintained on Danilon for over a year and now has suspected kidney damage as her urine stinks. With the Danilon she walks around and grazes, rolls etc. quite happily. Without it she can hardly walk. Ideally I would like to put her out to grass and buy another horse but can't maintain her on Danilon any longer for both financial and health reasons. I fear if left out to grass without medication she would soon start to suffer. I love her dearly and trying to make the decision is breaking my heart. What is best for her? drugged up so I can see her around hoping she is happy, or let her go?
 
Only you can make that decision, but remember, sometimes it is better to pts a day too early, rather than a day too late.

I hope you come to do what is best for your horse.
 
I think we often keep them going to try and lessen our own guilt!

I would rather look back thinking I called it time too early and they may have had a little while longer than look back thinking I kept them going for too long and they suffered

I am sure my stand on this wont be popular

remember they do not know that it is their last day only you do

they are not upset only you are

they wont be scared cos they don't know what is about to happen

if her kidneys are failing she will get worse and start feeling rough all the time, but you could blood test to confirm if you wanted to

its never an easy decision but is one you have to live with long term, do what's best for her not all the critics that are bound to be on your yard (they are everywhere).

good luck
 
jools123 said:
I think we often keep them going to try and lessen our own guilt!

I would rather look back thinking I called it time too early and they may have had a little while longer than look back thinking I kept them going for too long and they suffered

I am sure my stand on this wont be popular

remember they do not know that it is their last day only you do

they are not upset only you are

they wont be scared cos they don't know what is about to happen

if her kidneys are failing she will get worse and start feeling rough all the time, but you could blood test to confirm if you wanted to

its never an easy decision but is one you have to live with long term, do what's best for her not all the critics that are bound to be on your yard (they are everywhere).

good luck
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WELL SAID.
 
I might sound hard but I have been there a few times now. Let her go. You won't forgive yourself if you go and find her beyond retrieval one day. Make the decision and pick a time when she looks particularly well, it won't matter to her as she won't know about it but it will make a huge difference to you to know that she was the best that she could be through your careful management and not that she had suffered her last few days. It's a hard choice but you'll know it was the right one for you.
 
Agree with the other posters above. Better a little soon than too late with real suffering. It's such a heartbreaking decision but the responsible thing to do but so so hard. Really feel for you and will be thinking of you xx
 
Having waited until two horses were emergency PTS I can assure you that you are doing the right thing. A controlled end is so much better for the horse, though emotionally harder for you. I have such regrets about the deaths of my two!
 
If medically bute is no longer an option pts seems like the best option, sending some hugs, this time in an owners life is horrible.
 
How much danilon does she need? Personally, if my horse was comfortable on danilon I would retiire. It is no more expensive than having a horse shod. So what you save on shoes can go towards the cost of danilon. Lots of people with arthritis are kept comfortable and happy with meds. However, if her kidneys really are going, then this is a different matter. But you cannot diagnose this condition due to smell! You need a vet to do tests. What we eat, or take as medication affects the way our urine smells. If you eat asparagus or drink coffee for example. Being on danilon does not cause kidney failure. If you have had the tests done and her kidneys are failing, then PTS, but don't try to diagnose what is wrong with a horse by the smell of her urine.
 
jools123 said:
I think we often keep them going to try and lessen our own guilt!

I would rather look back thinking I called it time too early and they may have had a little while longer than look back thinking I kept them going for too long and they suffered

I am sure my stand on this wont be popular

remember they do not know that it is their last day only you do

they are not upset only you are

they wont be scared cos they don't know what is about to happen

if her kidneys are failing she will get worse and start feeling rough all the time, but you could blood test to confirm if you wanted to

its never an easy decision but is one you have to live with long term, do what's best for her not all the critics that are bound to be on your yard (they are everywhere).

good luck
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I agree with all of the posts. It IS a difficult decision, and one I have had to make, even though it broke my heart. I am so sorry for you, but I'm sure you will do what is right for your horse. My thoughts and best wishes are with you (((hugs)))x
 
I had an elderly mare that I had inherited from my sister in law when she grew to big for her, like yours she had medical issues and was on bute permenantly. I wanted to PTS when she lost her eye sight but sister in law who now lived the other side of the country would not allow it even though it was me who had to see this poor horse in pain every day. This went on for 2 years, it was heart breaking and in the end when the horse couldn't get up from the floor she agreed to PTS. I would never let any animal get to that stage again to PTS an animal thats quality of life is not good is the kindest thing to do. Good luck and don't beat yourself up over the decision.
 
This is your choice but do I think it would be wrong to PTS in the situation you describe no I do not.
It may be that the smelly pee is nothing to worry about but finally it's your call over the years I have had many horses PTS I rarely discuss it as people views differ so much however I have no hesitation In saying that it would be wrong to keep her without the Danilon as Wagtail said its cheaper than a set of shoes to keep them on it.
 
Its hard to make that decision , how much bute a day are we talking a couple or more?
I lost my old boy at 22 I had to decide wether to pts or treat he had cushings and then got laminitis, all four feet, the vet said he would need to be brought into the hospital and his chances were not very good!
I knew his quality of life was never going to be the same, he was a lovely, nutter of a T.B and a life of box rest and restricted turnout was not for him!
I had 12 fantastic years with Jack and letting go was the hardest thing I have ever done , my vet said I had done the kindest thing for my horse!
 
Our old mare was PTS last Sept with arthritis she was no longer happy and was on up to 3 bute a day. We had done all we could and it was no longer fair on her, looking back we should have possibly done it earlier but she always seemed to brighten up. Danillon is not as harsh as Bute as it didnt work at all on Daisy but you know your own horse.
I would get the vet to check her and then make up your mind.

Liz
 
I agree with Wagtail. If on danilon she's sound & her usual self & the vet could confirm her kidneys are ok, I would retire her on danilon. If she's unsound on the danilon in any pace or her kidneys are going then I'd let her go.
If you want her pts so you can afford a horse to ride that is also your choice but if that's what you want then whether she can be kept comfortable retired doesn't have any bearing.
 
jools123 said:
I think we often keep them going to try and lessen our own guilt!

I would rather look back thinking I called it time too early and they may have had a little while longer than look back thinking I kept them going for too long and they suffered

I am sure my stand on this wont be popular

remember they do not know that it is their last day only you do

they are not upset only you are

they wont be scared cos they don't know what is about to happen

if her kidneys are failing she will get worse and start feeling rough all the time, but you could blood test to confirm if you wanted to

its never an easy decision but is one you have to live with long term, do what's best for her not all the critics that are bound to be on your yard (they are everywhere).

good luck
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I think you are totally right there, Its never easy to have them PTS, even if they have broke a leg (been there, done that) but you have to think of the animal...

(((HUGS)))
 
My not so old 18yo is on one a day Bute to keep him field sound, i have in my head that im not going to let him get past needing more than 2 a day, my old mare was 33 and as others have said i wish with my hole heart that i had her PTS the month before.
 
No one can tell you want to do, it has to be you who makes the final decision.

I'm in a similar position only my boy is 13 and lives out fully retired on 2 danilon a day and cosequin. I did have him off the danilon quite happily but due to recent problems he's back on it.

Long term danilon isn't as likely to cause affects on the kidneys compared to bute etc... But I guess it depends on the dosage and horse.

If you cannot afford the danilon and have financial restraints I wouldn't get yourself into debt.

But at the same time do you think she will make it through another winter? If not, can you not manage her until the colder weather comes in and hang fire on getting another horse? And enjoy the time you have left together.

If she is coping on her danilon and happily mooching about I'd say leave her be for the time being, but it's a hard decision either way. If you think she's had enough then let her go.

It's a heartbreaking decision. With my boy we go day to day. I have the money saved and ready (sounds horrible!) incase I need to make that call urgently. Otherwise he copes on his danilon quite happily. Come the winter I'll re-assess the situation and the likely outcome is to let him go as last year was hard enough.

I really feel for you, but ask yourself is she happy and content at the moment. Good luck x
 
Wagtail said:
How much danilon does she need? Personally, if my horse was comfortable on danilon I would retiire. It is no more expensive than having a horse shod. So what you save on shoes can go towards the cost of danilon. Lots of people with arthritis are kept comfortable and happy with meds. However, if her kidneys really are going, then this is a different matter. But you cannot diagnose this condition due to smell! You need a vet to do tests. What we eat, or take as medication affects the way our urine smells. If you eat asparagus or drink coffee for example. Being on danilon does not cause kidney failure. If you have had the tests done and her kidneys are failing, then PTS, but don't try to diagnose what is wrong with a horse by the smell of her urine.
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Well said and my thoughts exactly!
 
So long as you are honest with yourself and admit it is because you now wish to financially have another horse, rather than it being medically or welfare necessary for her to be pts, I don't see the issue. But please don't try and pass it off as welfare if the horse is happy on danilon.
If you think she is giong to struggle getting up/is in pain then yes, it might be time to say goodbye.
 
I'm in the same position as the OP except that I have already made the decision and spoken to the vet about it. My old girl is 29 and on Metacam for her arthritis (can't have anything else due to her epilepsy drugs). She potters about with her pals, dozes the day away and can get up from the floor reasonably easily (although it takes some effort) but her eyesight is going (can't see in the dark and has only had partial sight in her left eye for years anyway), seems to be going deaf and it is easy to see that her lower back or hind legs are not entirely comfortable. I trim her hooves myself and she finds it really hard to keep her hind feet up for long enough for me run round with the rasp. In the winter her poor old mishapen knees struggle with keeping her front feet on the tripod for me. Walking throught the muddy gateways is a huge effort when you can't bend your needs and last winter she stood on the edge licking and chewing because she didn't want to do it. She topples over relatively easily because of her poor old legs and my biggest fear is that she will slip over in the mud and not be able to get up again. I just can't put her through another winter. It isn't fair on her. Her poor old body is just plain worn out. We've been together through thick and thin for 17 years and I can't imagine my life without her but I can take her aches and pains and tiredness away with just a phone call.
 
Boxers said:
Only you can make that decision, but remember, sometimes it is better to pts a day too early, rather than a day too late.

I hope you come to do what is best for your horse.
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+1

If I was questioning it for the horse, I'd know in my heart of hearts that it was time :( However if it's to have a rideable one and your mare is not suffering on Danilon perhaps give her the retirement she deserves...

Pan
 
SueandSplendida said:
My 22 year old has severe arthritis in three limbs and now a badly damaged tendon. She has been maintained on Danilon for over a year and now has suspected kidney damage as her urine stinks. With the Danilon she walks around and grazes, rolls etc. quite happily. Without it she can hardly walk. Ideally I would like to put her out to grass and buy another horse but can't maintain her on Danilon any longer for both financial and health reasons. I fear if left out to grass without medication she would soon start to suffer. I love her dearly and trying to make the decision is breaking my heart. What is best for her? drugged up so I can see her around hoping she is happy, or let her go?
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Poor old girl (and poor you). Re the kidney damage, I would get a vet out to confirm that . . . if it is confirmed, then I'd be making "that" decision. If not, however, only you know whether it's time to let her go. How would she do on grass on Danilon . . . could she have another two or three years mooching about the field with horsey company? How would she do in the winter? Perhaps talk to your vet about her prognosis too. How did she damage her tendon? Is the likely to do it again? All of these things need to be taken into account.

If, however, the question is purely "how can I afford to keep an unhealthy horse going and buy something I can actually ride" (and I'm not judging at all), then I think it's time to say goodbye.

Good luck with your decision.

P
 
SusieT - you'd be surprised how many people think I shouldn't though. Just because an animal looks ok-ish and seems happy enough, doesn't mean to say it genuinely is.
 
Fatpiggy I do feel for you, we were in the same position a few years ago with an arab mare we had bought as an 8 year old, at the age of 34 we had decided that she would not see another winter. September was a beautiful month and we decided to PTS at the end of the month on the 15th September I went out the field in the morning to check them and found she had died in the night. She hadn't struggled as the long grass was still standing all around her. It was a beautiful warm night and she couldn't have gone more peacefully.
 
Sometimes it's easier to think of our pain than theirs and it's the most honourable gesture we can do for them. It's a shame we can't help humans on their way. Personally I feel let her go. It's never easy but it's far easier to say goodbye to her while u still remember her eating grazing and enjoying life. It would be horrible to pts in more tragic circs ie that she was down in her box or field and couldn't get up. Choose a day and spoil her rotten till then. Prepare yourself and talk to her then allow her to play with all our lost ones on the green green grass and sunshine :-) xx good luck and pm me if u need support as I've done it too.. Like most of us here xx
 
jools123 said:
I think we often keep them going to try and lessen our own guilt!

I would rather look back thinking I called it time too early and they may have had a little while longer than look back thinking I kept them going for too long and they suffered

I am sure my stand on this wont be popular

remember they do not know that it is their last day only you do

they are not upset only you are

they wont be scared cos they don't know what is about to happen

if her kidneys are failing she will get worse and start feeling rough all the time, but you could blood test to confirm if you wanted to

its never an easy decision but is one you have to live with long term, do what's best for her not all the critics that are bound to be on your yard (they are everywhere).

good luck
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This has just set me off as someone said similar words to me in the days after we had Freddy pts. :( It is true though, its just us that feel the guilt and pain and those words gave me great comfort as i felt so guilty and kept questioning whether we'd done the right thing, even though i know we did.

OP - only you can make the decision but agree with what others have said in 'better a day too early than a day too late'

Thinking of you - its never an easy decision whatever you choose to do. (((hugs)))
 
Op in similar shoes to you right now (in fact have coincidentally just posted an almost identical thread). Thinking of you both. Hugs
 
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