Time to PTS? ?

[LTA]

We’ve had our mare for 2 years, and the whole time - she’s bucked. Her previous owner said when we bought her that she could throw ‘a cheeky’ buck. My 16 year old daughter is a great rider and we’ve spent thousands on lessons, physio, vet bills etc but I’ve got to the point where I think having her PTS is the only option. She’s almost 15, I know quite a bit about her history and she has had injuries from being kicked (not while we’ve had her). She has arthritis in her fetlock, and was found to have a few grade 2 ulcers in November which we treated, but possibly brought on by pain ?? Her back & ovaries scanned clear.
She went out on loan for 2 months to a local woman who seemed experienced, and she was bucked off into the road- so we’ve got her back.
The vet says the next step is to have her sacroiliac x-rayed but I’m financially & emotionally exhausted by it all. My daughter has lost her confidence (and interest) and I’m too old to be thrown off.
She’s good in every other way & I do love her but I don’t want to sell on a dangerous horse so I’m thinking for her to have the summer in the field, but should I PTS sooner rather than later? ?

 

[Baywonder]

I am so sorry - what a dreadful situation for you to be in.

First and foremost, I applaud you for taking the decision not to sell her on. That alone speaks volumes with regards to how much your horse means to you.

From what you have said you have tried every avenue possible to resolve the issues she has. IMHO if she was comfortable, not putting anyone (or other horses) in danger, and you are able to keep her, I would let her have the summer and then PTS.

But, I will quote a well known phrase used on this forum, and that is: 'Better to PTS a day early than a day too late'

 

[L&M]

We had an irish show cob who sounded very similar - we bought him knowing he could occasionally buck and would go for weeks without doing it, but then would start again with no obvious reason. Like you we spent £100's on vets/physios/saddlers etc but could never get to the bottom of it.

The sad thing was when he was not going through a bucking phase he was a cracking sort, my son even took him to PC camp when his pony went lame. He was also a rock steady hunter.

However after 5 yrs of not being able to get to the bottom of it, coupled with my son being bucked off on the road, we decided to retire him. I planned to keep him for life as was a very easy horse to have around, with a lovely temperament, but sadly had to have him pts at 17yrs when my marriage broke down and we lost the farm......we loved him to bits but couldn't afford livery for an unridden horse.

In your shoes i would be looking or retire or pts too.

 

[brighteyes]

If you can's retire her, then PTS is actually your only responsible option.

 

[ycbm]

She's clearly not a happy horse and you've done your best. There would be no shame in PTS whenever you choose to do it.

If you posted hoping for suggestions for anything the vets might have missed, then can you give us a complete list of everything that's been tested already so we don't go over old ground unnecessarily.

But if you're at the end of your tether and she is still a dangerous horse who you don't want to offer a retirement to, then PTS is by far the best option.
.

 

[honetpot]

I am sorry you are in this situation, and having a horse 'in retirement' is often not a real solution for the horse, and a burden for the owner. I do not know if you are at livery but often its best not to discuss things with people on the yard, as people do like to think they know better.
To the horse it will not matter if it goes now or in six months, but the surrounding situation may affect your daughter, so if you can,I would take it somewhere at grass livery for a few weeks and decrease contact for her, and have the PTS done there. I bring mine up for a small feed each day, and the day it's done, is a day like any other for them.
I can recommend, https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/about-us/, the person I spoke to was very helpful, and they have contacts all over the country.

 

[meleeka]

I think you have to have an end point where you know you aren’t prepared to go any further. You might already be at that point. It she were mine I’d probably have the X-rays the vet wants to do (based on the opinion that whats another few hundred when you’ve already spent thousands) and then you’ve done all you are realisticly prepared to do and tried your best.

Whatever you do the horse won’t care but I think you have to be clear in your own mind what the right thing to do is.

 

[Carlosmum]

There is no shame in making this decision, I think you have to draw a line somewhere, whether it is retirement or PTS for your mare's well being and potentially the safety of others in the future. Such a brave choice to make I for one support you.

 

[Denbob]

As someone who was in a similar position last year (except with a rearer) and did end up going with the PTS option I don't think you'd be being selfish at all. Once thing I'd also suggest you consider is whether - in a hypothetical situation where you find and treat the issue - you'd be comfortable getting on this horse to rehab her, or be able to finance having someone professional take that on for you. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this, and good on you for thinking of the safety of the horse and other riders long-term.

 

[Equi]

There is likely to be a physical reason for this, and i think one last set of xrays would be beneficial just for peace of mind if you can afford to but there is no shame in saying you can't or don't want to. As for giving the summer to me that just delays the heartache.

As ycbm said though it would be interesting to know the full investigations that have already happened? Was the spine xrayed or just prodded by vet as the bucking could easily be kissing spines which can't be detected without an xray.

 

[brighteyes]

Usually causes rearing and fussiness but I have heard of rogue teeth causing severe behavioural issues. Might include a proper dental if you having a last-ditch attempt at finding a cause.

 

[Andrew657]

First of all I'm so sorry for the position you're in and totally understand that you've reached the point of so far and no further.

I see other replies on here are saying that they would have the x-rays done. At best these are going to diagnose a problem - and unless you are willing to treat the problem - and there are many good reasons why you wouldn't (uncertain outcome, cost, inappropriate due to your mares other injuries/issues ...) the x-rays add nothing to the mares welfare.

I speak as someone who just made the painful decision to have mine PTS without investigating every possible option the vet had said they could investigate / but discussions with the vet made me realise that the potential treatments were inappropriate.

In terms of now or in the Autumn - so much depends on your circumstances; but given you're emotionally exhausted would ask you to consider how you would feel about continuing to look after her - knowing the decision is already made - take time to say goodbye properly(something I wished I could have done).

We imagine summer as an idyll for horses. But with flies, heat etc. I'm not sure it always lives up to the promise at the end of a hard winter.

Again so sorry you're in this position

 

[LTA]

She's clearly not a happy horse and you've done your best. There would be no shame in PTS whenever you choose to do it.

If you posted hoping for suggestions for anything the vets might have missed, then can you give us a complete list of everything that's been tested already so we don't go over old ground unnecessarily.

But if you're at the end of your tether and she is still a dangerous horse who you don't want to offer a retirement to, then PTS is by far the best option.
.

I can’t really afford to retire her. We don’t have our own land so DIY livery is £130 per month, insurance is £102 per month, plus farrier, feed, bedding... you know how it is.

using Bute might mask the problem, but will it bring the ulcers back? She’s a fat welsh, because she’s hardly worked, because she bucks, because her arthritis might be causing her pain, so would a summer in a muzzle be a good retirement option? ?

I am sorry you are in this situation, and having a horse 'in retirement' is often not a real solution for the horse, and a burden for the owner. I do not know if you are at livery but often its best not to discuss things with people on the yard, as people do like to think they know better.
To the horse it will not matter if it goes now or in six months, but the surrounding situation may affect your daughter, so if you can,I would take it somewhere at grass livery for a few weeks and decrease contact for her, and have the PTS done there. I bring mine up for a small feed each day, and the day it's done, is a day like any other for them.
I can recommend, https://www.equine-endoflife.co.uk/about-us/, the person I spoke to was very helpful, and they have contacts all over the country.

Thank you for the link, that’s really helpful as apart from speaking to the vet I don’t know what else to do.

As someone who was in a similar position last year (except with a rearer) and did end up going with the PTS option I don't think you'd be being selfish at all. Once thing I'd also suggest you consider is whether - in a hypothetical situation where you find and treat the issue - you'd be comfortable getting on this horse to rehab her, or be able to finance having someone professional take that on for you. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this, and good on you for thinking of the safety of the horse and other riders long-term.

I rode her briefly in the school last autumn. We did a gentle walk then I asked for trot & she bucked & bolted. My daughter’s a much better rider than me but I wouldn’t want to put anyone else in danger. I know I’ll be judged, but I don’t have a queue of people wanting to ride her either ?

 

[LTA]

Usually causes rearing and fussiness but I have heard of rogue teeth causing severe behavioural issues. Might include a proper dental if you having a last-ditch attempt at finding a cause.

regular dentist checks. Apart from a bit of filing, all good there.

 

[ycbm]

I wouldn't retire her, LTA, I would have her put to sleep if you are at the end of your tether and/or money. I don't see the point of "one last summer". Others feel differently from me, though.

 

[IrishMilo]

For what it's worth I was in a very similar situation to you last year and my vet was totally supportive of a PTS decision - she said she'd done it herself for the same reason (arthritis in a young horse). I totally empathise how emotionally draining it is. I spent months going back and forth on my decision, asked every person with a horse what they would do. I think I read every page on the internet relating to arthritis in young horses, the prognosis, and the decision to PTS.

He had his sacro injected bilaterally which made no difference at all (he was explosive), Bute trial, a month of Omeprazole, physio, shockwave... in the end he was so needle phobic you couldn't get a vet within 10ft of him.

I miss him every day, it's been 5 months and I still get tears in my eyes when I mention his name, but I've never regretted it because I know he's out of misery.