Time to quit?

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Sallyfinn

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Apologies in advance for the length.....
I have always been a hairy cob lover and my little man and I are very happy together. We hack and pleasure ride and hunt lots. He is very reliable and will lead anyone across the nastiest of ditches. However, he's not great with an upright, and does the odd nasty stop if he thinks it's a bit big.
We had started doing some hunter trials but 2'6" really is his limit and I'm often a bit anxious jumping more than 2'3" because he's a typical "on the forehand" type and I'm afraid we'll forward roll (and have a couple of times).
Last summer I decided I wanted to buy something a bit sportier. Whilst I don't want to do more than a 2'6" novice class, I decided I would really like a horse that found it easy so I could relax and improve.
After much horse shopping, and one horrible fall trying one, I bought a 16'2 10yo ex-eventer. I hoped that she and I would do the same things I did with the cob, but without the fear of her stopping or falling. Well the long and the short of it is that I have over horsed myself.
In the autumn I fell off her a lot. I had 2 hospital visits and one trip in a blue light ambulance. Like others on here my confidence is in my boots. Whilst I am still hunting my cob, I have taken to dressage with the mare. We keep bringing home rosettes, I'm learning stacks, and we are getting on better all the time. BUT I can't help thinking that I am unlikely to ever be able to do what I hoped with her. My dreams of a BE80 (no, not that big an ask I know) seem like an impossibility. I don't care if I come last but being too scared to try is awful.
She doesn't put a hoof wrong but is such a forward going big moving horse I don't know if I'll ever get the hang of her. If I become unbalanced at all, my weight goes forward and she is off. And I can't pretend I won't ever lose balance jumping.
Should I call it a day and stick to the cobby types, or should I acknowledge that it will take a while but I'll get there if I take it slowly?
I'm not getting any younger at 40 this year :(
Twiglets for anyone who has read this far. X
 
Being over horsed is a very common ailment. There are really only two courses of action; become a better rider, or get a more suitable horse. Perhaps I don't deserve a twiglet for that piece of advice, but life is really too short to be frightened of what is supposed to be a pleasant activity.
 
I agree with Cortez. If your dream is to compete at BE80 and you feel you can't with this horse (and given you've had a few falls I'd argue it's not worth persisting with her) it's time to sell her to a more suitable home, and if you can buy a more suitable horse to take you safely up to BE80.
Don't give up though if it has always been your goal.
 
Moving onto a 16.2 scopey type after a limited cob was a very big step, she is possibly too much horse especially if you only want to stay at 80 but having the scope to do more should mean she finds it easy if you can learn to ride her, the best person to give an opinion would be your trainer, there should be plenty of exercises that will help you and encourage her to be more accepting of the occasional wobbly moment, most horses will be kind enough to forgive you rather than take advantage, there is no need to stick to cobs I have known many cobs far less generous than they could be in tricky situations.

If you don't have a good trainer that would be my first recommendation, find someone that is sympathetic and experienced to give you some help and see if they think there is a way to work through this.
 
Agree life is too short to be frightened - if you prefer smaller cobby types perhaps a nice native or native crossbreed - Connemara or Welsh D would be more athletic than a cob and a nicer size than a horse for you and lots of fun!
 
It's not a nice feeling and I have been there.... I kept going with an unsuitable horse for waaaay too long before I admitted to myself that I was over-horsed and crucially, making myself absolutely miserable in the process. This is an expensive hobby and we need to be having fun and enjoying ourselves, whilst staying safe in the process.... Moving onto my current horse was the best horsey decision I've made.
 
I would go for something in between, a friend of mine got up to BE90 on her little 15hh cob x, and had loads of fun.

And this sounds really bad, but I have a friend looking for what you describe as your current mare, and you aren't a million miles away, so if you decide to sell please let me know. :-)
 
Thank you all for the advice. Not really what I wanted to hear but I have been thinking it! My trainer thinks I should keep her and just take it much more slowly. I don't mind slowly if I am going to get there, trouble is I'm not sure I will. She is just such a nice horse, if I sold her I would be devastated to think I might not ever feel that huge extended trot that gives me wings again. On the other hand, it's when the wings fail I don't like it!
 
Sallyfinn said:
I have taken to dressage with the mare. We keep bringing home rosettes, I'm learning stacks, and we are getting on better all the time. BUT I can't help thinking that I am unlikely to ever be able to do what I hoped with her. My dreams of a BE80 (no, not that big an ask I know) seem like an impossibility. I don't care if I come last but being too scared to try is awful.
She doesn't put a hoof wrong but is such a forward going big moving horse I don't know if I'll ever get the hang of her. If I become unbalanced at all, my weight goes forward and she is off. And I can't pretend I won't ever lose balance jumping.
Should I call it a day and stick to the cobby types, or should I acknowledge that it will take a while but I'll get there if I take it slowly?
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Well, it sounds like you've got the flatwork sussed! :) I'm guessing that the horse is more than capable of an 80 - what level was she competing at before and did she have a good record at that level? The most important thing for an amateur however is the brain of a horse - it has to want to do the job and not look for ways out of it. That is something that only someone seeing the horse can assess. Also, if the horse has been competing at a much higher level you may find that she backs off more with a bigger fence but is somewhat gung-ho with the smaller stuff.
 
I would just like to say this is really interesting for me as my youngster hasn't made the height I wanted and whilst I feel comfortable working in dressage with her I was considering getting a larger horse for jumping and cross country. I would say it's up to how you feel, if you truly feel you will never be comfortable jumping your horse and that's what you want to do then you should sell and find one you are comfortable with BUT you are doing so well with your dressage I feel you should try having some jumping lessons on your horse and see if an instructor can help you improve your balance and confidence on your current horse :)
 
She has been one star eventing, trying for two. She definitely doesn't look for ways out of work, she is very willing (unless there are any horse eating Daisies nearby). I'm having the opposite problem gunnerdog, she's fine with the big stuff but doesn't seem to understand poles on the ground or very tiny natural fences.
 
I nearly sold my horse (kwpn x Tb) he was a bit much for me when I bought him aged 5.
He would rear on the way out to the field which I struggled to control, he had a huge spook, was terrified of cattle and was not adverse to the odd bucking fit.
I was never scared to ride him but leading him out to the field 10mins walk down a lane really worried me.
I weighed up his good and bad points he was/ is v. good in traffic, he was honest to jump, sound and good to hack alone and in company, these things are important to me. He was also good with vet, farrier, clip, box ect. I decided to stick with him because I thought I could end up with another horse with other/different issues to resolve (better the devil you know)
I am so glad I did. I learnt a lot mostly about ground work and now have a really good and very mannerly horse.

Good Luck whatever you decide.
 
At the same time, are you happy to just do dressage on her? If not, I agree.....look for something that will take you to your goals.

I have a lovely 15.2 ID x that I 'thought' I'd have to be taking up to 1 M because I know she's capable of it....but actually? I'm loving doing Trec on her and haven't jumped in ages. Might do the odd prelim 7 in the summer but know what? I'm not bothered, she's not bothered and we both seem to be getting along fine doing this. :)

Good luck whatever you decide. :)
 
Sallyfinn said:
Thank you all for the advice. Not really what I wanted to hear but I have been thinking it! My trainer thinks I should keep her and just take it much more slowly. I don't mind slowly if I am going to get there, trouble is I'm not sure I will. She is just such a nice horse, if I sold her I would be devastated to think I might not ever feel that huge extended trot that gives me wings again. On the other hand, it's when the wings fail I don't like it!
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Are you broken or just unfit? If your body isn't upto riding properly due to old injury etc you might never lose the wobbles, but if you're just unfit then going back to basics with lungeing to focus on your position and build up your core strength will make you a better rider. What exercise do you do apart from riding? For most people unless they work on a yard, or something equally physically damanding and ride daily, it seems that riding isn't enough exercise to make you fit for riding. I know someone who isn't a rider but a gymnast, put her on a horse though and she doesn't wobble like a biginner. If you can't or don't want to become a better rider then I agree with others, go for something inbetween your old horse and your new, eg a native x tb around 15.2hh.

Your ex eventer, is she taking advantage of your lack of balance or has she been trained to pick up speed when the rider takes the forward seat? If it's the latter and you don't want her to do that because of your balance wobbles, then possibly you could retrain her not to do it.
 
Your trainer knows you in real life and they will know all of the details of you and this mare. I would listen to what they have to say.

It sounds like a huge huge step up to go from a little cob to a 1 star ex eventer. While these horses are schoolmasters they still need riding properly and you can't really just get on them without knowing what buttons to press. It sounds like you have gone from a fiesta to a ferrari and tried to drive it in exactly the same way and then wondered why you have had an accident!

Take it slowly, do more dressage as that will only build up your bond and you are doing well at it, and do more training with the jumping. Think of it as training YOU not her!
 
This sounds exactly like me OP! I got my ex 1* eventer last April as a RC allrounder to replace my cob x - result has also been lots of falls including being hospitalised and a huge loss of confidence! Unlike yourself R was my only ride, so we have taken it right back to the very basics; lots of lessons, going very slowly and making sure that we always finished with me wanting to do more, rather than pushing it too fast and going back a step. This was 6 months ago, and only now am I beginning to feel happy about jumping and hacking! It might not be what you want to hear, but I feel taking things this slowly and right back to basics has really improved my riding too, so there is light at the end of the tunnel if you do want to persevere (I too had serious thoughts about selling so would understand that)

Ps agree with sugar and spice - also improved my fitness off the horse as I knew that was one of my weaknesses!
 
Thank you all. I think chatting it through is helping focus my mind! I am quite fit (run lots) but am also doing a fair bit of work on my core.
I quite agree that's it's a case of training me not her, she is awesome, and really tries to please.
She's not taking advantage taking off when my weight goes forward, she has just been trained to think that's what I want. I'm used to the type that stops when you stop kicking so it's all a bit much.
We are making big steps forward, I am now boxing her out alone to go for 5 mile plus hacks in the country with lots of cantering. This is a huge change from struggling to go 300yds down the lane in August.
Weirdly I'm quite brave if I don't have to think about her taking her hooves off the ground!
It's good to be reminded that just because she can manage 3ft plus XC that doesn't mean I have to.
 
Sallyfinn said:
I'm having the opposite problem gunnerdog, she's fine with the big stuff but doesn't seem to understand poles on the ground or very tiny natural fences.
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This isn't actually uncommon for horses familiar with bigger tracks. Mine is only at novice, but put up a tiny cross/small log and he's never entirely sure whether to step over it or jump it, so often picks something inbetween :D
A slightly bigger fence (not excessive, about knee height) and he'll pop over calmly because it registers in his brain as a 'jump'.
 
Sounds to me like your more confident than you think :). Agree with others re taking baby steps and maybe reassess in a few months time.
 
abb123 said:
Your trainer knows you in real life and they will know all of the details of you and this mare. I would listen to what they have to say.

It sounds like a huge huge step up to go from a little cob to a 1 star ex eventer. While these horses are schoolmasters they still need riding properly and you can't really just get on them without knowing what buttons to press. It sounds like you have gone from a fiesta to a ferrari and tried to drive it in exactly the same way and then wondered why you have had an accident!

Take it slowly, do more dressage as that will only build up your bond and you are doing well at it, and do more training with the jumping. Think of it as training YOU not her!
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^^^^ where's the like button when u need one

If you want something you can jump now I'd consider replacing the mare with a nice RC cob x that is willing to just do the job without knowing the aids to all the super technical moves that you don't, and therefore getting yourselves in a muddle with at the moment

If your happy to stick it out and learn how to ride this horse and take things slowly with your trainer you could end up learning loads and could be a fairly unbeatable partnership it depends what your short term goals vs long term goals really are.
 
A hard one without seeing you ride, or meeting the horse....

All I know is that every time I have moved out of my horse 'comfort zone', ie 14.2hh whizzy cob types, it has gone wrong! Fortunately now I am older and less ambitious, I am happy to stick with my cob. I occasionally get frustrated out hunting that I can't jump the gates or larger hedges, but always come home in one piece (touch wood!!!).

Good luck as has been some good advice on here xx
 
I would be guided by your instructor, if they think you will get there, then stick at it a bit longer.

Set yourself a time limit/goal. If your heart is set on eventing then there is nothing wrong with finding the right horse for the job.

Whatever you decide, she sounds lovely and I am sure you wouldn't have trouble finding her a new home.
 
I'm going to go against the grain here (there's always one!) and say that while I don't think she's necessarily the wrong TYPE, she might be the wrong HORSE. My boy has foot problems. It took 18 months of "dirty" stops and many falls (luckily no hospital visits) for him to go discernibly lame and for us to realise he wasn't just a wrongun. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. He's an absolute darling in every other way so I should have realised. It was long enough to send my jumping confidence through the floor though. This was 7 years ago and it's never really come back fully. I'm fine on the flat, it's just jumping that does it.

I was lucky. At the same time my best friend was having babies so I got a sharer for my boy and started to share hers for competing etc. He's similar to your girl - 17hh, 5/8TB and competed at a much higher level (BS) than I ever will. He is, however, the kindest, most gentle soul you could ever want and has dealt with my wobbles in his stoic, calm, caring way. On the few occasions he's over-jumped and put me off balance, he has slowed down gently (when either an abrupt stop or continuing at speed would have seen me on the floor) and stuck his head up to help me back into the saddle.

I still have major confidence wobbles but have done 80 and 90 on him and am making my debut at elementary soon. I'm really proud of this as his owner has done very little flatwork with him. I really don't think I'll ever manage it on another horse as I'm nervous enough on him and he's a star. He's 20 now and we're slowing down a bit as I'd rather have more years with him at a lower level than continue at that height and break him.

Just because your mare is "an athlete" doesn't mean she should take advantage of your inexperience. There are others like him out there - with plenty of talent and lots of kindness, it's not a one or the other question. So no, you don't need to stick to cobs...but if you do get a cob, it doesn't mean they can't do what you want. You just need to find the right horse, regardless of breeding or type.

Good luck
 
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A different view here. People are judging the mare and assume she is taking advantage. However, a properly trained and experienced eventer (particularly at her level) is taught to land and when you put your weight forward that means go. My old mare was exactly like that having run at intermediate and my current boy is the same.

What does your trainer specialise in? It might well be worth going to an eventer for training if this isn't your trainers area. Also, while your mare may not pay attention to small fences, what grids are you working her through? Grids are enough of an athletic problem to get the horse focused and brilliant for allowing you as a rider t get used to the jump.

Have a look at Pilates to improve your core as well.

Oh and scrub that "I'm too old at 40". Rubbish. I am 51 and 5.5 and will be eventing again this year! It took me 3 months to be able to properly ride my new boy on the flat as my previous horse was a short coupled 16.2 ISH and new boy is a 17 hand WB with a big trot! I think your mare sounds amazing and great fun, just give yourself time to build up your confidence and strength. She clearly isn't a stopper or sharp so work on being able to sit on a bigger jump.
 
Luci07 said:
A different view here. People are judging the mare and assume she is taking advantage. However, a properly trained and experienced eventer (particularly at her level) is taught to land and when you put your weight forward that means go. My old mare was exactly like that having run at intermediate and my current boy is the same.

What does your trainer specialise in? It might well be worth going to an eventer for training if this isn't your trainers area. Also, while your mare may not pay attention to small fences, what grids are you working her through? Grids are enough of an athletic problem to get the horse focused and brilliant for allowing you as a rider t get used to the jump.

Have a look at Pilates to improve your core as well.

Oh and scrub that "I'm too old at 40". Rubbish. I am 51 and 5.5 and will be eventing again this year! It took me 3 months to be able to properly ride my new boy on the flat as my previous horse was a short coupled 16.2 ISH and new boy is a 17 hand WB with a big trot! I think your mare sounds amazing and great fun, just give yourself time to build up your confidence and strength. She clearly isn't a stopper or sharp so work on being able to sit on a bigger jump.
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You're right, she may be doing what she's trained to do rather than taking advantage but she is reacting in a way the OP doesn't want and if the OP is finding it difficult to a) cope with and b) change, it means the she may not be the right horse.
 
annagain said:
You're right, she may be doing what she's trained to do rather than taking advantage but she is reacting in a way the OP doesn't want and if the OP is finding it difficult to a) cope with and b) change, it means the she may not be the right horse.
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But...if she knows the horse is doing this because it has been trained to and not because it is mickey taking, then that is a big differentator. As we get older (and I put myself firmly in this camp of behaviour), our bravery starts to seep away. Years of being gung Ho finally take their toll and how we feel can really impact our confidence. Mine is strong and forward but is geniune and tries so I love riding him. The mare sounds so grand that I would be inclined to have another try and try something different. If the mare was sharp, ungenerous then I just wouldn't bother. I don't bounce anymore. I just make loud splat noises when I hit the ground so finding a horse who didn't want me off was paramount this time round!
 
Luci07 said:
But...if she knows the horse is doing this because it has been trained to and not because it is mickey taking, then that is a big differentator. As we get older (and I put myself firmly in this camp of behaviour), our bravery starts to seep away. Years of being gung Ho finally take their toll and how we feel can really impact our confidence. Mine is strong and forward but is geniune and tries so I love riding him. The mare sounds so grand that I would be inclined to have another try and try something different. If the mare was sharp, ungenerous then I just wouldn't bother. I don't bounce anymore. I just make loud splat noises when I hit the ground so finding a horse who didn't want me off was paramount this time round!
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The OP has not said when she has had issues so it is difficult to tell whether it is due to a sharp, ungenerous mare taking advantage or one that is still doing as it has been trained in the past and the OP struggling to stay with it, I think this will be the key to what she does, if the trainer is good enough then they should know if there is a future and be able to work them through the problems, I think a new pair of eyes may help with that decision as by now with the correct type of gridwork I would have thought the mare should have settled down, if she is ever going to, and become more forgiving of the odd moments.
 
Luci07 said:
But...if she knows the horse is doing this because it has been trained to and not because it is mickey taking, then that is a big differentator. As we get older (and I put myself firmly in this camp of behaviour), our bravery starts to seep away. Years of being gung Ho finally take their toll and how we feel can really impact our confidence. Mine is strong and forward but is geniune and tries so I love riding him. The mare sounds so grand that I would be inclined to have another try and try something different. If the mare was sharp, ungenerous then I just wouldn't bother. I don't bounce anymore. I just make loud splat noises when I hit the ground so finding a horse who didn't want me off was paramount this time round!
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I know now my boy was stopping because his feet hurt and not because I am a c**p rider. Try telling my subconscious that. It doesn't stop me bursting into tears at the thought of jumping or feeling like my saint of share horse is doing it all DESPITE me rather than BECAUSE of me or dreading the day I can't do it on him any more and have to try on something else. 7 years later, 7 years without one stop or falling off thanks to my superstar and it's still with me.

All I'm saying is that if OP is falling off a lot and it's denting her confidence, regardless of whose fault it is or even whether there's any fault, maybe it's time to find a slightly better match.
 
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be positive said:
The OP has not said when she has had issues so it is difficult to tell whether it is due to a sharp, ungenerous mare taking advantage or one that is still doing as it has been trained in the past and the OP struggling to stay with it, I think this will be the key to what she does, if the trainer is good enough then they should know if there is a future and be able to work them through the problems, I think a new pair of eyes may help with that decision as by now with the correct type of gridwork I would have thought the mare should have settled down, if she is ever going to, and become more forgiving of the odd moments.
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OP says in her first post mare is geniune, hence me then assuming the mare is not sharp and that is what I based my response on. Seems we are both on the same page with recommending grid work and another set of eyes.
 
I don't know how to do the green box thing....
"The OP has not said when she has had issues so it is difficult to tell whether it is due to a sharp, ungenerous mare taking advantage or one that is still doing as it has been trained in the past and the OP struggling to stay with it, I think this will be the key to what she does"

The mare is a bit sharp, quite anxious, and not terribly bright. My instructor thinks she is not at all generous and could definitely help me out more. But I don't think it is nasty. It is definitely a previous training issue, she thinks weight forward means go. She stops beautifully from my seat but that's no good when my seat is hanging round her neck or in the mud!
She has a lovely nature and I soooo want it to work out. But I can't face doing dressage forever, it just isn't my thing.
 
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