Tiny children competing

At a lot of bigger shows the leadrein m&m classes are first thing so thats a child and parent in the ring at 8am all suited and booted with immaculate pony. Thankfully the show pony LR classes are rarely as early for some reason. Therefore sometimes the crying child in the ring has been up since the crack of dawn and with show prep will no doubt be tired at which stage even the smallest of upsets can push them too far where thet may jump poles happily at home.

The cost of showing doesnt help, when i was a kid youd go to compete in the most relevant classes, if that was a single class then so be it. Now there is a real push from some parents to get their moneys worth with as many classes as possible, this can mean plaiting and replaiting, clothing changes for the kids etc on top of all those classes
 
I could of course have left my eldest to go round on her own jabbing pony in the mouth as pony would still have taken her clear, personally I would rather kids learnt to jump on lead rein and lunge so they can ride independently of the reins when they are set free and the honest ponies never get socked in the teeth when trying their hardest.
 
twiggy2 said:
I could of course have left my eldest to go round on her own jabbing pony in the mouth as pony would still have taken her clear, personally I would rather kids learnt to jump on lead rein and lunge so they can ride independently of the reins when they are set free and the honest ponies never get socked in the teeth when trying their hardest.
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True, but the is a difference between teaching sessions and shows.
 
gmw said:
Lead rein jumping is wrong. What is the point if they cant steer their pony and adopt some sort of jumping position? If a child falls off in affiliated sj classes then they have to leave the arena unmounted. Ponies cat leaping childs head thrown backwards unbelievable. I have seen some with the lead rein attached to the bit and ponies mouths scragged in the process. Some people will do anything for a rosette.
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I so agree! If I could I would ban lead rein jumping - I have seen more accidents and horrific sights in lead rein jumping classes than any other.

I watched in open mouthed horror as two women (who should have known better) held a little boy in the saddle whilst one led the pony round a course of jumps at the same time (so you can imagine how secure he was if he needed two people to hold him in the saddle). He started crying after two fences but they carried on at break-neck speed, not noticing that his head was jerking forwards and backwards. They were only interested in the time of the round.

How his little neck must have ached - his head was thrown forward and backward over each jump as the pony struggled to maintain a rhythm - pony would shoot forwards but be pulled up short by the lead rein, but then be urged to canter forward to the next fence, where he would pause waiting for the jab in the mouth, child meanwhile being thrown about like a rag doll. They were thrilled because the child 'won', but he was sobbing by the end.

He gave up riding as soon as he was old enough to voice an opinion - and they expressed sadness. I wasn't old or brave enough at the time to say anything at the show, but I would now.
 
I've been stuck on a pony and dragged around shows for my own amusement since 1992, and I'm not mentally scarred from it - I never jumped, just bumbled around in circles pulling funny faces with little pigtails.

I've actually never given lead rein jumping a thought, it isn't something you see very often, however if the local unaff 75cm class is anything to go by, there are a few adults that need putting back on a lead rein and confining to the safety of the under 3s equitation class.
 
DuckToller said:
I so agree! If I could I would ban lead rein jumping - I have seen more accidents and horrific sights in lead rein jumping classes than any other.

I watched in open mouthed horror as two women (who should have known better) held a little boy in the saddle whilst one led the pony round a course of jumps at the same time (so you can imagine how secure he was if he needed two people to hold him in the saddle). He started crying after two fences but they carried on at break-neck speed, not noticing that his head was jerking forwards and backwards. They were only interested in the time of the round.

How his little neck must have ached - his head was thrown forward and backward over each jump as the pony struggled to maintain a rhythm - pony would shoot forwards but be pulled up short by the lead rein, but then be urged to canter forward to the next fence, where he would pause waiting for the jab in the mouth, child meanwhile being thrown about like a rag doll. They were thrilled because the child 'won', but he was sobbing by the end.

He gave up riding as soon as he was old enough to voice an opinion - and they expressed sadness. I wasn't old or brave enough at the time to say anything at the show, but I would now.
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Totally agree - this was why Pony CLub in New Zealand do not allow Lead Rein jumping or teach jumping at D certificate level. Until a rider can happily canter they should not be jumping, to jump they need to be fully aware of the way the pony will go over the jump. Little ones as we have seen with heads being thrown back and forth are not ready to jump.
 
Tnavas said:
Totally agree - this was why Pony CLub in New Zealand do not allow Lead Rein jumping or teach jumping at D certificate level. Until a rider can happily canter they should not be jumping, to jump they need to be fully aware of the way the pony will go over the jump. Little ones as we have seen with heads being thrown back and forth are not ready to jump.
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Totally agree with the children needing to be able to canter happily - we did gymkhana before starting any jumping and even then were able to sit, steer etc without needing to be on the lr necessarily.
One thing they don't seem to think of these days - we were always taught "monkey up a stick" and that's in canter on the flat or over fences, go up the neck, on a neck strap / mane so that you are with the pony. None of this hanging off the back, head being bounced all over. As the child gets stronger and more confident they start to sit up more and take more control.
The only problem we ever had going forward was it took my brother years to learn to kick with both legs - he'd got used to only kicking with one so as not to kick dad with the other (I used to kick him to make him go faster :p).
 
My 2yo loves riding, he's a typical boy and just wants to trot everywhere. Obviously he's very small and of course still on the lead rein with someone beside him at all times. I would happily begin taking him out to tiny weeny shows like lead rein jumping as he's just started going over tiny tiny x-poles on a pony who just steps over them - I just haven't sourced the correct clothing for him yet (do you even get joddy boots his size?! All he has is a hat). Next year he'll be old enough for lead-rein showing so he'll have a go at that. He likes riding so why not? It gives him a day out where instead of him being dragged along to watch mummy compete he gets to do it instead! They only get balanced etc. through riding more and more so why not start it young? If they enjoy it then its pretty much like encouraging them to do any other activity.

What I don't get is that from 3 he is allowed to do lead-rein showing classes at huge and busy agricultural shows (ie. very spooky places for ponies) yet he can't join Pony Club until he's 4? I know for sure that most kids would prefer to be having fun at PC than doing boring showing at that age!

BTW, some people on here are saying kids should have to canter well before jumping. I think if they're that small then "jumping" isn't really "jumping" as we see it, the ponies doing lead-rein jump classes generally plod over the jumps, they don't leap over. I wouldn't put my son on a pony who did anymore than stepped over, he had 2 ponies until recently and 1 would ping over a jump no matter how small so he never jumped her. There's common sense to be had here obviously.
 
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MagicMelon said:
BTW, some people on here are saying kids should have to canter well before jumping. I think if they're that small then "jumping" isn't really "jumping" as we see it, the ponies doing lead-rein jump classes generally plod over the jumps, they don't leap over. I wouldn't put my son on a pony who did anymore than stepped over, he had 2 ponies until recently and 1 would ping over a jump no matter how small so he never jumped her. There's common sense to be had here obviously.
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Unfortunately this is the problem when the pony leaps over the jump rather than just trot over it. Your two year old is also likely to just 'get off' the pony because something has attracted his attention - therefore jumping/going over poles is not safe.

You also have to consider that the person leading, could trip over the jump and end up under the pony.

With 40 + years teaching experience I have found that in order for the rider to be safe over a jump, they need to be happy having a canter, they need to learn jumping position, just a three point, folded forward so that shoulders are in line with knee and toe, be able to hold this position when going over the jump - they are then far safer if the pony jumps big, and more comfortable.

I have seen too many children become nervous of jumping because their over enthusiastic parents think its cute that their little person is jumping. They need to learn to sit properly first, experience and be happy in canter, have some degree of control and be able to be in control of their own body.
 
Tnavas said:
Unfortunately this is the problem when the pony leaps over the jump rather than just trot over it. Your two year old is also likely to just 'get off' the pony because something has attracted his attention - therefore jumping/going over poles is not safe.

You also have to consider that the person leading, could trip over the jump and end up under the pony.
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If you've got an old, experienced enough pony then it never leaps a jump! We're also talking about a cross pole with the sides up on a brick - basically a trotting pole, lead-reins don't jump big although but it is of course up to the parents to choose an appropriate pony that is safe enough. Not sure what you mean about the attention thing - my son is not about to start getting off midway through jumping a jump! His attention is on the poles, its only when you're standing about he'll look at other stuff. And at this age they dont know how to get off so they dont until their parents take them off. Yes the person leading could trip over, but hell a first ridden pony or ANY horse could for example trip over as well!
 
DuckToller said:
I so agree! If I could I would ban lead rein jumping - I have seen more accidents and horrific sights in lead rein jumping classes than any other.

I watched in open mouthed horror as two women (who should have known better) held a little boy in the saddle whilst one led the pony round a course of jumps at the same time (so you can imagine how secure he was if he needed two people to hold him in the saddle). He started crying after two fences but they carried on at break-neck speed, not noticing that his head was jerking forwards and backwards. They were only interested in the time of the round.

How his little neck must have ached - his head was thrown forward and backward over each jump as the pony struggled to maintain a rhythm - pony would shoot forwards but be pulled up short by the lead rein, but then be urged to canter forward to the next fence, where he would pause waiting for the jab in the mouth, child meanwhile being thrown about like a rag doll. They were thrilled because the child 'won', but he was sobbing by the end.

He gave up riding as soon as he was old enough to voice an opinion - and they expressed sadness. I wasn't old or brave enough at the time to say anything at the show, but I would now.
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well there is lead rein jumping and lead rein jumping what you have described seems daft to me but lead rein jumping with kids that can keep themselves on board but cant manage to steer, keep the pony going, remember a course of jumps and not sock the pony in the mouth all at the same time, I used to be on the end of the lead rope to help with steering and remind them which jump was next not hold them on the pony.
 
MagicMelon said:
If you've got an old, experienced enough pony then it never leaps a jump! We're also talking about a cross pole with the sides up on a brick - basically a trotting pole, lead-reins don't jump big although but it is of course up to the parents to choose an appropriate pony that is safe enough. Not sure what you mean about the attention thing - my son is not about to start getting off midway through jumping a jump! His attention is on the poles, its only when you're standing about he'll look at other stuff. And at this age they dont know how to get off so they dont until their parents take them off. Yes the person leading could trip over, but hell a first ridden pony or ANY horse could for example trip over as well!
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Seen it many times, unless someone is focused on the child they are likely to just decide to do something else and get off (fall off) they don't have the attention span to concentrate for more than a few minutes at a time.

At the riding school I had we gave pony rides and every child went out with parent and leader. Parent was to hold back of shirt at waist height ready for when child decided they'd had enough.
 
Tnavas said:
Seen it many times, unless someone is focused on the child they are likely to just decide to do something else and get off (fall off) they don't have the attention span to concentrate for more than a few minutes at a time.

At the riding school I had we gave pony rides and every child went out with parent and leader. Parent was to hold back of shirt at waist height ready for when child decided they'd had enough.
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Well I dont know what age those kids are, but my son wouldn't dream of it - he tells me when he's finished and actually says "get off now mummy" and I'll lift him off. Guess its how you teach them, so again earlier the better ;) I guess it also depends how long these kids are expected to stay on. Of course, they'll get bored if on for too long, keep sessions very short and sweet and I think it keeps their enthusiasm. I really dont see the issue, at the end of the day its up to the parents.
 
When I was working at a RS I never once had a kid try and get off the pony, nearly doze off on a lead rein hack once!

We also only ever used ponies for 'jumping' (essentially raised trot poles) that could be guaranteed to just trot/walk over them. I agree that the pony taking a leap + head with a hat on (so heavier) swinging back and forwards cannot be a good combination but not one I have seen often, perhaps I don't know enough competitive parents!
 
I have two daughters, one 7 and one is 3.

My 7 year old has been having lessons since about March time now and shes getting ready to learn canter at the riding school. My 3 year old just loves sitting on the pony when her sister can't make it to a lesson for some reason and going on mini hacks. Which she does for half an hour quite happily.

Showing wise, i can't see me showing my 7 year old off lead rein for a while yet as her confidence isn't there 100% yet (she hasn't shown yet either). My 3 year old i would lead rein but not over jumps. I don't think i could jump them let alone the pony!
 
MagicMelon said:
Well I dont know what age those kids are, but my son wouldn't dream of it - he tells me when he's finished and actually says "get off now mummy" and I'll lift him off. Guess its how you teach them, so again earlier the better ;) I guess it also depends how long these kids are expected to stay on. Of course, they'll get bored if on for too long, keep sessions very short and sweet and I think it keeps their enthusiasm. I really dont see the issue, at the end of the day its up to the parents.
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Yes of course its up to the parents but unfortunately there are a lot of Horsey parents who have great pride in showing off their childs 'talent' regardless of the childs head being violently thrown back and forth and often hanging precariously to one side.

If all parents had a modicum of sense when it comes to looking after their children when riding it would be OK - but that doesn't happen.

Just had a visit from one of the above parents who thought it fun to put her child in the mini jumping, raised poles mostly - the child was being thrown around violently, couldn't rise to the trot, steer or stop, mum refused to lead her. Child is now 11 and only just beginning to have any sort of confidence. If she had been progressed properly she would no doubt have been fine at 7. Currently dealing with a pushy parent who thinks her child is ready to sit C+ - as an examiner I know full well she isn't but this parent will push and push.

Parents can be a childs worst enemy at times
 
Dont envy you Tnavas having to deal with that sort of parent. Im really cautious when comes to safety .... my Mini is extremely capable,, has 2 lessons a week so she has developed an independent seat etc otherwise she would still be jumping poles on the ground...( she jumped up to 80's on old pony ) New pony only with us couple of weeks & Mini is disgusted Ive capped jump height at 65cms.... She is more than able BUT in my opinion she needs to know pony way better on the flat & over fences before height increases as he is way more forward going .
Am friends on FB with a particular person & her daughter is same age as mine & Pony is out jumping weekly & photos are cringy - child constantly chucking and hauling pony in mouth to balance herself... no style or technique etc... Alot boils down to quality instructor at a young age.


Tnavas said:
Yes of course its up to the parents but unfortunately there are a lot of Horsey parents who have great pride in showing off their childs 'talent' regardless of the childs head being violently thrown back and forth and often hanging precariously to one side.

If all parents had a modicum of sense when it comes to looking after their children when riding it would be OK - but that doesn't happen.

Just had a visit from one of the above parents who thought it fun to put her child in the mini jumping, raised poles mostly - the child was being thrown around violently, couldn't rise to the trot, steer or stop, mum refused to lead her. Child is now 11 and only just beginning to have any sort of confidence. If she had been progressed properly she would no doubt have been fine at 7. Currently dealing with a pushy parent who thinks her child is ready to sit C+ - as an examiner I know full well she isn't but this parent will push and push.

Parents can be a childs worst enemy at times
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showpony said:
Dont envy you Tnavas having to deal with that sort of parent. Im really cautious when comes to safety .... my Mini is extremely capable,, has 2 lessons a week so she has developed an independent seat etc otherwise she would still be jumping poles on the ground...( she jumped up to 80's on old pony ) New pony only with us couple of weeks & Mini is disgusted Ive capped jump height at 65cms.... She is more than able BUT in my opinion she needs to know pony way better on the flat & over fences before height increases as he is way more forward going .
Am friends on FB with a particular person & her daughter is same age as mine & Pony is out jumping weekly & photos are cringy - child constantly chucking and hauling pony in mouth to balance herself... no style or technique etc... Alot boils down to quality instructor at a young age.
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Good thinking, it's lovely to see a child with style as well courage and flair
 
twiggy2 said:
my girls both used to roar with laughter each time the pony went over a jump, they would be hanging on to a monkey strap at the front of the saddle and be getting flung about all over the place, we only did one show when they were on lead rein and it was the 2''3' class they came first and second out of a class of adults and kids some of whom had been riding and competing for years (we had only had their first pony ten days) I was shattered though as there were only 3 in the jump off and 2 were mine and both on lead rein -never fell off till they were off lead rein though. some kids love it and you just have to go with it
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I'm surprised the other competitors didn't complain. How can someone on a lead rein be allowed to get placed in a normal jumping class?
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
I'm surprised the other competitors didn't complain. How can someone on a lead rein be allowed to get placed in a normal jumping class?
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it was a friendly yard competition where the kids were encouraged to have a go- they were the only 2 under 14yrs and so only ones on lead rein and no other class for them.
if someone had complained about being beaten by kids if 5 and 7yrs it would be in very bad taste
 
One memorable time watching leader in jumping, a nice pony was being led by a highly competitive father. Going round the course, the pony flung itself high in the air at every jump. Around the middle of the course, said child fell off, and father continued the course sans child...
 
From the age of 4/5 I would go off on my pony and do my own thing. Canter, jump, bomb about etc. And I started off with a total git of a shetland pony. I only ever did lead rein because I was forced to. I never wanted to. I did 1 lead rein xc course when I was 7 and would rather have done it off the lead to be honest but my welsh pony was a stubborn git and my mother not ready to let me bomb off by myself.

That was the last time I ever had a lead rein on. I was quite happily out showing, jumping and gymkana-ing by myself whilst my year older sister would still insist on being on the lead rein for gymkana games and wouldnt jump at all. My sister has since given up riding but her son now rides.

I had a lot of lessons and grew up with horses so it never bothered me. I think it bothered my mum more than anything lol!
 
The worst one I've seen was at a local show, a baby dressed to the nines, held onto the pony on the lead rein and the baby could barely sit upright unheld (didn't help with having a huge nappy on), and it could barely hold it's own head up and the reins were in the baby's hands with a wee ribbon tied in a bow on each hand to keep them on the reins!!! Most of the spectators were horrified, thankfully they weren't placed! I doubt the child will ever remember the experience or have enjoyed it!
 
Princess Rosie said:
the reins were in the baby's hands with a wee ribbon tied in a bow on each hand to keep them on the reins!!!
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WHAAAAAT? That's so dangerous!

I have photos of me riding off the lead rein at my first show aged 3 in a shirt and tie all smart. My feet are about 4 inches from the bottom of the saddle flaps. It is one of my fondest memories. I won a rosette which said 'highly commended'; it was my first one ever and I still have it 33 years later!

I'm not sure about the jumping to be honest. I didn't jump until I was 6 and happily cantering with an independent seat. Surely mounted games is more fun for a little one, it's far more interactive and exciting than jumping which is a lot for a little body to cope with.
 
As a show judge I expect little tots to have 'handlebars' as I call them for children attached to the D strap! The cub saddle already has the handlebars in place.

I expect safety stirrups as standard either the peacock ones or the twisty ones.

You can always tell the children that are there because they want to be there and the terrified ones that MUST sit on the pony as the parent cannot abduct ones that is willing to ride!

I do worry about the ones that do not want to be there though!
 
foraday said:
As a show judge I expect little tots to have 'handlebars' as I call them for children attached to the D strap! The cub saddle already has the handlebars in place.

I expect safety stirrups as standard either the peacock ones or the twisty ones.

You can always tell the children that are there because they want to be there and the terrified ones that MUST sit on the pony as the parent cannot abduct ones that is willing to ride!

I do worry about the ones that do not want to be there though!
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Here in NZ the Lead Rein children are expected to be able to rise to the trot properly, and have some control of the pony. The lead rein has to be attached to the noseband and the handler must hold the lead rein only in the left hand, the right hand may not hold the rein or pony, but may be used to steady a child to prevent a fall
 
twiggy2 said:
it was a friendly yard competition where the kids were encouraged to have a go- they were the only 2 under 14yrs and so only ones on lead rein and no other class for them.
if someone had complained about being beaten by kids if 5 and 7yrs it would be in very bad taste
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I can see why it was allowed in a tiny, liveries only, friendly show. Had it been a general unaffiliated show though I wouldn't have thought it bad taste to complain. It wouldn't have been a complaint about being beaten by a young child, but a complaint about a pony/horse being on a lead rein having an unfair advantage. Lots of sticky jumpers will jump better with a lead over the fence even if that lead is from a human rather than another horse.

OP I disagree with lead rein jumping classes due to the safety and comfort of rider and pony. Lead rein riding classes I don't have a problem with, the riders often have a secure walk and are capable of rising trot whilst holding the saddle. But people who can't canter, steer or hold a jumping position shouldn't be jumping IMO. I think its as someone said early on, a money spinner for the show organizers.
 
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