Tips/advice/calming supplement to help me bring on nervous green thing?

RubyFrench

RubyFrench

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Brought my gelding in feb, he had been out of work for "10 weeks" (I suspect muuuuuuuuuuuuuch longer), basically had him rebacked by a professional and many tantrums and crying later I have just managed to get brave enough to start riding him out on my own, he is very nervous, not spooky but has started napping and generally gets very tense and snorty when on his own.

He is also petrified of the school at the livery yard so can't school him (he becomes so tense that I feel he may explode/bolt/rear etc)

I was thinking of putting him on NAF magic or something similar to take the edge off but does anyone have any suggestions?

Need something to work out before I give up and let him just be a field ornament forever!

Before anyone asks this is not a saddle/teeth/back issue - all FINE :)
 
Several things come to mind immediately on reading your post.....

Firstly, if he's tense/nervous, is he picking up on your tension/nervousnesss? Was he like this when he was being ridden by the professional? Is he like this when he's ridden in company?

Secondly, I would make sure he was out 24/7, eating grass and no other feed - you don't want him to feel "well" and play games with you out of mischief and over exuberance.

Thirdly, I would assume that the professional was working him harder than you are - a tired horse rarely plays up (if it's not pain/discomfort related). How much are you doing with him?

Also, why had he been out of work previously? Had he been napping/misbehaving with previous rider? Were they scared of him?

If I had a horse like that, I would want him ridden by someone who wasn't apprehensive of what he "might" do, and who would just ride him forward, in a relaxed manner, to give him confidence. Whether that is you, or someone else, only you will be able to answer.

Don't mean to be tough, but you don't want him getting into bad habits, and frightening or hurting either you or himself
 
spacefaer said:
Several things come to mind immediately on reading your post.....

Firstly, if he's tense/nervous, is he picking up on your tension/nervousnesss? Was he like this when he was being ridden by the professional? Is he like this when he's ridden in company? He is golden when in company, completely different horse. When he was reschooled it was at the ladies house, so different setting, he completely changed when he came home (currently awaiting moving day to go to new place, he has always seemed "off" at this particular yard) And i don't think I am influencing him with nerves etc, I rode him in company whilst building my confidence up again, I now feel absolutely fine, and try and ride him forwards with lots of praise, patting, singing :D and talking to him confidently etc. I had a few hairy moments when he and his companion were kept in a paddock right by the track off the yard, he wouldn't go past as she would constantly call for him and get him tense and nappy, since moving them further off the track this has improved.

Secondly, I would make sure he was out 24/7, eating grass and no other feed - you don't want him to feel "well" and play games with you out of mischief and over exuberance. This is how I keep him so no problems there!

Thirdly, I would assume that the professional was working him harder than you are - a tired horse rarely plays up (if it's not pain/discomfort related). How much are you doing with him? She was schooling him for 15-30 mins a day (1 day break) for 2 weeks solid with a couple of walks up and down the road, and he was golden, much to my dismay, he displayed no signs of nervousness at all. Saying this it was on a road... and down the sandy track at my yard he is horrible to ride, but as soon as we turn back onto the road he relaxes and is much more manageable. I try and ride him minimum 3 days a week, sometimes up to 5/6 days, but this is mostly hacking as like i said he seems to object to our menage)

Also, why had he been out of work previously? Had he been napping/misbehaving with previous rider? Were they scared of him? I suspect exactly this, previous owner said "he didn't like schooling" but she hacked him regularly, said she didn't have time to ride him with her other 2 etc. when I first had him we had some bucking issues (I suspect badly fitting saddle, being unfit, being out of work, being unschooled and possibly only recently broken in) I think this was probably happening and the reason why he was sold. This has all passed thankfully.

If I had a horse like that, I would want him ridden by someone who wasn't apprehensive of what he "might" do, and who would just ride him forward, in a relaxed manner, to give him confidence. Whether that is you, or someone else, only you will be able to answer. Like I said, as far as I am aware I keep my vibes up singing to him etc, never ever scolding him and generally trying to ease him forwards at his own will. The lady he reschooled him did come over and ride him once since he came home in the school, and was completely shocked at how different a horse he was at home to when he was at her house, she had to get off in the end because he was working himself up so much we thought he was about to explode!

Don't mean to be tough, but you don't want him getting into bad habits, and frightening or hurting either you or himself
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Thanks for the input, any further advice? I am doing my best, I admit my weaknesses that I am a novice and in hindsight should probably have never brought my horse, but people at the yard have been supportive and have told me I am doing a good job!
 
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RubyFrench said:
He is also petrified of the school at the livery yard so can't school him (he becomes so tense that I feel he may explode/bolt/rear etc)
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Have you tried lunging in the school? I'd lunge in it a lot, definately ever single time before I rode him. That'll get him used to the school so you should eventually be able to ride in it and also help take the edge off him before you hop on. Perhaps try to ride him in the school when another person is riding in there (on a calm horse) as it'll chill him out a bit.

As someone else has mentioned, I would also make sure he's turned out 24/7 so he doesnt gain energy being cooped up!
 
Sounds like you are doing all the right things :)

Maybe he just doesn't like where he is - horses are funny creatures sometimes!

I would probably keep him going nicely and confidently in company until you move yards - see how he settles at the new place.

If you want to try some calmers, it's a bit of a minefield (and can get expensive!) as some horses work better with some calmers than others. I've had success with Steady-Up and Magic, no success with B-Kalm and Magnitude.

The most successful ones I've tried are the Blue Chip Kalma liquid, HorseFirst RelaxMe and the Nupafeed one. I like them as they're very adjustable once the loading dose is in the system, you can increase/decrease the amount very effectively depending on the stress of the situation. They've been effective on more horses, than any of the other ones I've tried.
 
Sound to me like you are doing a fab job :) don't doubt yourself my love! Lunge or long line in the school so he will learn to relax and accept that the surroundings aren't scary, then maybe ask a friend to lunge you on him for a bit - always remember to breath! :) I'd also get a really good instructor to instill further confidence in both of you and acheive a nice active routine in the school. Be pro active and try out lots of differen things in the school - in hand work, trotting poles - all things to get him to concentrate on you. Most importantly, have fun :) xx
 
Lung, lunge, lunge, lunge, lunge.

Have you tried Freeschooling? :)

My mare was very nervous in our paddock and she was on the yard 2 years previous to when I bought her!
Whenever I rode her in the paddock I could feel her tensing underneath me and there wasn't any fluency in her movement at all. Her ears were always pricked, head was up like a giraffe and would never come down (even when walking her off) and she was drenched in sweat in the first 5 minutes of schooling every time that she was so nervous and she would never calm down.


The first step I taken is moving any unsightly/frighting looking object (such as we had big wooden jump wings lurking in the shadows) and moved them to a different place in the arena.

Then I put her bridle and saddle on her and free schooled her for a good 10 minutes every day. Then before I rode her I would walk and trot her on the lunge and move down the school whilst she was on the lunge.

I then reduced this lunging time to just a quick 2 minute walk and slowly eliminating the lunge line until she was happy with me getting on her back.
She is a absolutely changed horse now! From a nervous wreck to a confident, happy mare.

I noticed a change within the first 2 weeks. She was so much calmer and happier :)

Also please don't doubt yourself. It sounds like you're doing an excellent job with this young horse and you're taking the right steps by soothing him rather than scolding.

Dodson & Horrell Placid is a good calmer, used it on my 12.2 who used to get nervous and turn into an absolute bolting nutcase at shows. Also had my mare on NAF Five Star Magic during her stress periods. It's sold as a powder and liquid.
 
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Sounds like you are doing all the right things. 6 months is not long and I would continue working him in company for as long as it takes for him to be relaxed. When you do go alone pick a short route he finds easiest. It is even better if you can split up during a ride and then come back together. Just sounds like he needs more time.
 
I would get him used to going into the school, before attempting to ride him in there. Take him a haynet or a small bucket feed, let him finish it and take him straight back out for a few days then increase the time he is in there, walk him round the school before bringing him out and build up from there. The first time you ride in the school, just mount and get off again. Have you tried riding him in the school with another horse in there?
 
I've had a lot of success using a dually halter with my girl. She's more big and pushy than hugely nervous, but it has worked well to get her listening to my voice commands which I have then extended into ridden work.

Paula
 
RubyFrench said:
Thanks for the input, any further advice? I am doing my best, I admit my weaknesses that I am a novice and in hindsight should probably have never brought my horse, but people at the yard have been supportive and have told me I am doing a good job!
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I am sorry to say this, but you have probably not got the experience to deal with this horse, what you need is a confidence builder, what you have got is a problem.
Pay for an experienced instructor to help you out.
 
My mare was spooky in the school, but after I had turned her out in it (with a mate) for a short while she stopped being spooky in it. Maybe it's worth a try?
 
I am also 6 months in to bringing on a green youngster who had been out of work for about 4 months. She can be very nappy too but we are definately making progress! -had a fab lesson today! :)

My instructor suggested 'cool calm and collected' for my mare as she's had a lot of other clients having success with it. I'm only day 3 in to the loading dose do can't comment on its effectiveness yet but wanted to suggest!

Good luck x
 
Miss L Toe said:
I am sorry to say this, but you have probably not got the experience to deal with this horse, what you need is a confidence builder, what you have got is a problem.
Pay for an experienced instructor to help you out.
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oooh so i should just exchange him for another one like an old jumper or car? no thank you :) i think i am managing perfectly well at the moment, and don't think it is massive problem!

turning him out in the school and feeding him in there sounds like a good idea! i have tried lunging him in there but he is absolutely useless at it! i will continue though! and i do plan on eventually getting an instructor to help us, but thought i would wait until at new place so he can settle, plus didn't want to waste money if he was too busy being worried/nervous in the school rather than learning etc.

i will definitely invest in a calmer for the time being just to take the edge off things, it is a mind field though!
 
The horse that I turned my mare out with was a sensible, calm sort (my young grey arab :p ) which I think helped. if I'd turned her out in there on her own or with a spooky horse, I don't think that it would have worked so well.
 
i'm in kind of a catch 22 at the moment, he and his field companion are absolutely obsessed with each other (which makes it difficult when separating them) but i could turn them out in the school together and they would have each other for support!
 
Sounds like a plan. Often it's a case of one step at a time. So what you can do and work from there. I find i actually enjoy training Bree on the ground more than I enjoy riding at the moment.

I invested in a dually halter and Monty Roberts online video university (montyrobertsuniversity.com) subscription and we're both having fun.

Paula
 
RubyFrench said:
oooh so i should just exchange him for another one like an old jumper or car? no thank you :) i think i am managing perfectly well at the moment, and don't think it is massive problem!
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Very good, you asked for opinions, that is mine.
A car has no "ability" to "get worse" because the driver wants to go to Aberdeen and the car "wants" to go to London.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Very good, you asked for opinions, that is mine.
A car has no "ability" to "get worse" because the driver wants to go to Aberdeen and the car "wants" to go to London.
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Wrong, i asked for advice or recommendations for a calming supplement. I had already pointed out I was a novice and doing my best, which has so far been successful. I welcome everybody's advice if useful or constructive, telling me to sell my horse for a different horse does not help me with my horse!
 
oooh so i should just exchange him for another one like an old jumper or car? no thank you i think i am managing perfectly well at the moment, and don't think it is massive problem!
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I think that was a little uncalled for, however it is clear that this is a sensitive topic for you. If it wasn't a problem then you wouldn't be on here wanting advice for calmers, after all if there was no problem then there would be no need for a calmer. But don't take the comments so personally, Miss L Toe was only trying to help by telling you what she thinks is best (after all that's why you posted) and the least you can do is politely respect her opinion, even if you don't agree with it yourself.
Luckily enough most problems can be fixed with a bit of time and effort.
I have a youngster very much like yours, he is incredibly tense/nervous/spooky/anxious. In fact he is a complete stresshead, he will get stressed over the tiniest thing and then start prancing around, bunny hop rearing and snorting like he is some top class stallion (all 14.2hh of him :rolleyes:).
Basically he gets stressed and then it literally takes him an hour or two to calm down, he is the really annoying sort that will have a strop because a horsefly landed on him (Lord O' Mercy!!) and then is a heap of sweat and hormones for hours after.
So anyway, he has been on NAF magic for about 2 weeks now and I have seen a difference in him, however I have also seen a difference in my purse as that stuff is expensive! :cool:
Now then, what you need to know is that it won't stop your horse from acting up/getting stressed, however it does help. Sandy still completely loses his rag as he only has a pea brain and gets overstimulated very easily :rolleyes: But he does calm down a lot quicker. Two days ago he went for his first group canter, it didn't change the fact that he thought that he was a racehorse and that he must bolt past everybody, stop, have a rear, then carry on running.
FYI I didn't try to pull him up, I merely said "Ok have a run, you'll get tired in about 3 seconds anyway", if you start pulling and flailing about in the saddle it only freaks him out more.
However, when I quietly stood him up and waited for the others to catch up he calmed down right away, he walked quite happily back down the field, I had maybe 2 minutes of stallionish behavior he calmed right down.

So yes, Magic is good however please bear in mind that it isn't a miracle cure, the only way to overcome the bad behavior is for you to firstly cut out any and all heating/sugary food (and haylage!) and work through the problems. If he is anything like my boy then he will get his confidence from the rider, which means that you need to be confident at ALL times.

Best of luck, it's worth it in the end!
 
Miss L Toe said:
Pay for an experienced instructor to help you out.
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As far as I can see Miss L Toe's advice wasn't to sell your horse it was to get an instructor which I think is very good advice.

IME you'll get more for your money from a couple of lessons with a good instructor who can help you work through your horse's issues than you will from a calmer.
 
RubyFrench said:
Wrong, i asked for advice or recommendations for a calming supplement. I had already pointed out I was a novice and doing my best, which has so far been successful. I welcome everybody's advice if useful or constructive, telling me to sell my horse for a different horse does not help me with my horse!
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I don't want to turn this in to a slanging match. Your post title is tips, advice, and / or calming supplement.

I tend to loook at these types of posts from the horse's point of view, and his long term happiness is relevant, horses do not understand things in the way that humans do, you can't say "be a good boy and I will give you a nice pat" it does not work that way. Neither can you plead "novice and nervous" he does not want that, he needs "calm, confident and experienced"

You are asking about calmers, fine but look through all the posts and you will find a lot of advice which has nothing to do with calmers, I would suggest that most people who have worked with horses have met behavioural issus, and most of these are best dealt with by training in a consistent and positive way. If the behaviour you describe is ongoing the chances are that it will get worse and become ingrained, this will make the horse very unhappy, and no amount of Magic will prevent it.
 
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