Tips for a graceful sitting trot

I am curious as to why , when first learning to ride, people are taught to post ( often a great struggle) when I think it would be far easier to learn to sit. What do you all think, is it just customary /traditional that people teach this way or is there a good reason ? Many countries never teach posting I notice.
 
There is an interesting Pammy Hutton article in the latest (or week before cant quite remember!) HH magazine where she talks about the current 'obsession' with doing everything in rising trot actually ruining people's ability to do a correct sitting trot and that riders should focus less on rising and more on sitting... Really interesting.
 
Watch these in order - it makes sense then!

[video=youtube;-6PTs1XPAug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6PTs1XPAug[/video]

[video=youtube;eMBdR2yrEOs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBdR2yrEOs[/video]


[video=youtube;6WfEjdk0gKs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WfEjdk0gKs[/video]

I certainly wouldnt advocate leaning back, not only a weight aid saying 'stop moving your back' to the horse as your parking your wobbly weight on the reflex at the back of the saddle, but will also encourage you to brace to keep your balance!
 
snooples said:
the amount of people i have seen bouncing around awfully in sitting trot when they could be rising is ridiculous, do you still think these people should sit to trot
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No, they should learn to sit the trot properly. I had a dressage instructor once tell me that rising trot is for happy hackers... It has its place, freeing up the the back when schooling and such, but I'd rather work in sitting myself.

~Howrse~Mad~ said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pP_hNjjOvU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WfEjdk0gKs&list=PL9340E2CF89BD079C
How do you get your position like this, any tips, exercises.? Thanks
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You don't ;) I'd say the first rider is learning back and bracing against the movement. The latter I don't feel those simulators are very physiological or realistic - they're much easier to sit on than real animals.
 
I am a complete novice, but the advice my RI gave me might help OP - LARGE GIN! Not literally, but I find that I tend to stiffen up through my back quite a lot which stops me absorbing the movement so I was told to think about the feeling one gets when one has imbibed a moderate quantity of gin - soft and spongy in the legs and lower back. It really does help get the idea of the feeling - I can even manage longer periods of trot without stirrups that the rest of my group now, despite riding a horse with a fairly choppy trot.

(May need to sample some actual gin in the name of research !:D:
 
I haven't read all the posts since I last looked at this thread last night, but I do remember someone mentioning how can it be good to do sitting trot. Something about an eventer and dressage judge saying it should only be done when required at the higher levels?

I have to say, I don't understand this OR I do understand it if these people are of the more modern variety or BHS variety?

Certainly, I personally feel that I am less weighty, more supple and less of a hindrance to the horse when I am sitting the trot.

Leaning back in the sitting trot is not something I would ever encourage. It adds weight as opposed to taking it away. I have trained a few riders that have been unable to progress past PSG or have had huge difficulties in training GP movements. I have been brought in to be a new set of eyes to find out what the issue is and each time, it has been leaning back while sitting. These horses are so in tune with us, we spend years training them to listen to every weight aid and they gladly comply when they can....but that's the key...when they can. When we lean back (even just a teeny bit) in order to sit to the trot, we may increase our ability to absorb, but we decrease the horses ability to hear us effectively. The leaning back part has an effect on the way the horse feels the saddle over the scapula and so, the movement is affected. This doesn't so much matter in the medium trots, and makes little difference in the collected work as there is less movement anyway, but it does affect the horses ability to lengthen and truly extend the stride.

The biomechanics of this so to speak being that...when the horses stride gets bigger and more exaggerated and we find it harder to sit, we can learn that leaning back a little, even maybe collapsing at the waist a tad can help us to sit the movement better. It is more comfortable for us, so we think thereby it must be more comfortable for the horse. Anyone that rides at this level will know that, as I think another poster on here that is established at PSG says, it is not a case of the movement being "up & down" but that the movement is more "back and fore". To be more precise, an uphill version on back and fore.

Think on that and think about the feeling you get in your seatbones. What we are doing, that we maybe don't realise, is when we lean back to make it possible to sit, we are, not through an intended force, but purely through the inertia of the movement, pushing the saddle forward into the horses scapula. We can spend thousands a perfectly fitting saddle that gives plenty of clearance in this area and in 90% of the movements, it will be perfect. But...lean back in the sitting trot and we make that perfect saddle have direct affect on the ability of the scapula to realise its full range of motion. So...we can get great medium trots and achieve 7's and 8's, but moving up the levels, we start proper extended work and marks drop to 6's and we wonder why.

When you teach the rider how to sit to the trot without the need to lean back, the rider can be lighter in the seat than even they would be in rising trot.

How to do that? Well....in most work, I totally agree with what other posters have suggested in terms of correct tension in your core, relaxation through the lower back and pelvis etc. These all assist in the ability to absorb the movement.

One thing though that we are usually taught to never do is grip with the thighs. I agree and would always advise proper lessons to learn the right way to do things with someone on the ground that can really be there and see what you are doing and know how to help but...we have very helpful muscles on the inside of our thighs...
Thighfront_c_zps7f11be26.jpg


The Gracilis

This muscle is the key to being able to be light in the sitting trot. It is extremely difficult for me to describe how to use them in writing, but perhaps, see them as being a "buffer" between your weight and movement and the saddle. See them as being the major shock absorber. All other muscles in the thigh should remain relaxed and neutral, but this Gracilis muscle can keep us upright, straight through the body, and balanced over the centre of gravity without carrying the inertia forward into the scapula of the horse.

This is a rider using his whole body effectively in order to remain light in even the most expressive of extended movements...and look at the quality of the movement!
[youtube]LVvlr7k87yQ[/youtube]

This is a video of a rider leaning back in the extended trot....and look at the quality of the movement!
[youtube]IpVCAxWNjnI[/youtube]

Now, I personally really like the riding of the woman in the second video....but if you pay close attention to the saddle, whilst she is sitting very nicely, the leaning back slightly is having an effect on the saddle.

Also, Carl Hester and Utopia are pretty special...but he shows the right kind of seat very well.

Now, it's hard to define, but a rider leaning back can't always be judged by the angle of the riders back. many people can lean back through the pelvis, yet have a fairly upright position...it may look good, but a trained eye will see the lean in the pelvis and its affect on the saddle.

Ok....I have probably waffled on far more than necessary, but my point being...sitting the trot correctly should be the most comfortable thing for the horse. It is a way to give the horse, when being asked such big questions as in upper level dressage, a light, consistent feel from the rider. Not an on-off feel from the rising trot.

I was lucky. As a 3 yr old starting to ride in a place with zero h&s and awful supervision, my older sister and her friend read somewhere that to develop a good seat, you should ride bareback. So...we'd get to the stables, get on, sent into field and sister and friend would take the saddles off our ponies and we would spend the hour riding bareback. I was 3...I fell off as a matter of course, we all did, but 18 months later when that place was shut down, the three of us could ride anything. Sitting trot wasn't a goal, it was the natural thing.

I was conditioned later in life into rising trot and so I myself started to wonder why I wasn't getting as much movement from what I knew were super talented horses as I used to get from £50 ponies as a kid. The answer was, I was leaning back...me, in my pelvis, to try to absorb the movement. It took me a while to figure it out and many hours of watching the top riders and studying them.

I would suggest lots of work without stirrups, but only on the lunge if you have an experience person doing the lunging and a horse that is extremely well established in ridden lunge work.

When hacking out...whenever your horse jogs or does little trots to catch up to the horse in front...practice. Keep practising. Think about your Gracilis muscle being the buffer, your pelvis and lower back being the shock absorbers and your core being the foundation that keeps you in position.

Just looking at the pictures of JFTD in her sig...she does this naturally. In the pic furthest on the right...you can even see the absorbstion in the "heaviest" moment being sent down through her leg and out through her heel....so it is not being felt in the horses back or pushed forward into the shoulder. Nice work JFTD :smile3:
 
Ahh GG I'm blushing, I've been beating myself and asking myself where I learnt to ram my heel down like that :o :o :o :o
 
blitznbobs said:
get the horse in front of your leg and swinging theu his back and its loads easier.
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Absolutely agree with this, no point trying to sit on ahorse that is not working properly, it's so much more difficult. Also, some horses are much more comfortable than others, it's just bad luck if your is particularly bouncy.

Just read GG's reply, really helpful. As someone who learned to ride at 50, i now know why I struggle so much and my horse says "thank you" when i start to rise!
 
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